Creationism Will be the End of Cristianity.

a reply to: Barcs

he didn't take a shot at creationists. he took a shot at christianity, specifically. since many christians aren't creationists, that is not the point the screenplay writer was making with one of my childhood-adulthood, heroes. you just have no idea. it's like superman squaring off against an entire sector of the planet, and referring to them as possessing the lowest intellect in any family unit.

just to get a masters degree in divinity, you need a doctorate degree, and be able to read and translate, greek, hebrew, latin and variants as well (aramaic, chaldean, for example). and that's just for starters.

check out this example. this is dr. michael s. heiser's cv
www.michaelsheiser.com...

i'm suppose to believe that a guy who spends his time watching football and believing his ancestors were monkeys because someone told him so (not because he actually knows what any of it means), is smarter than the entirety of christendom and this is true, across the board, particularly in the case of the highest educated of christianity -- the ministers.

man that is like flat out nazi/communist propaganda with bells on and shouting from the rooftops.

it would've been more applicable if he had said, creationists. even though i'm a creationist, i don't consider myself an imbicile. obviously, i'm not a rocket scientist, but i wouldn't consider myself unintelligent or the least intelligent in my family. in fact, i'm not even sure there's a way to determine who is the least intelligent in a family of educated/non-educated people. the guy watching football may be a genius who just never realized his potential or isn't interested in biology (the whys and wherefores of evolution) and just takes their word for it. but to say he is automatically smarter than the christians in his family is such a horrible and bigoted thing to say, i don't even know where to start.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Barcs

he didn't take a shot at creationists. he took a shot at christianity, specifically. since many christians aren't creationists, that is not the point the screenplay writer was making with one of my childhood-adulthood, heroes. you just have no idea. it's like superman squaring off against an entire sector of the planet, and referring to them as possessing the lowest intellect in any family unit.

just to get a masters degree in divinity, you need a doctorate degree, and be able to read and translate, greek, hebrew, latin and variants as well (aramaic, chaldean, for example). and that's just for starters.

Masters degree in divinity? Which accredited colleges offer that? Pardon my ignorance, but I've never heard of that degree, and didn't realize they offered a degree for something that can't be proven. Many religions have ministers and clergymen, it's not just specific to Christianity. And it's not like you have to be a genius to preach a message to a church. I'm not saying it makes them stupid, but it's not anywhere close to the level of being a scientist or engineer. I'm pretty sure that's what Holmes was talking about. Not all ministers and clergymen get a masters degrees, in fact I'd wager the vast majority do not. You are referring to biblical scholars and the likes, not just ministers and priests.

BTW: All Christians are creationists. They believe everything was created by god. Some don't take it 100% literally, but it's still at the core of their belief system. Most accept evolution, but believe god created it.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Yeah, You know. The whole Satan existing and you going to Hell if you don't do what pleases the Authoritarian Master of your faith horrors? The incredible amount of guilt and shame placed upon you if you don't perfectly honor the misinterpreted words of your zombie savior? The suggestions that demons and evil spirits exist and the whole judgement thing? Those horrors.

a reply to: Barcs

read the link i provided. i edited it. he got his phd from the university of wisconsin-madison.

originally posted by: gottaknow
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Yeah, You know. The whole Satan existing and you going to Hell if you don't do what pleases the Authoritarian Master of your faith horrors? The incredible amount of guilt and shame placed upon you if you don't perfectly honor the misinterpreted words of your zombie savior? The suggestions that demons and evil spirits exist and the whole judgement thing? Those horrors.

quite right. some interpretations of the text are horrific. of that, we are in agreement.

a reply to: Barcs

i do them one step better. i believe super massive black holes created the universe but that an intelligence guided the process.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Barcs

read the link i provided. i edited it. he got his phd from the university of wisonsin-madison.

i'm suppose to believe that a guy who spends his time watching football and believing his ancestors were monkeys because someone told him so (not because he actually knows what any of it means), is smarter than the entirety of christendom and this is true, across the board, particularly in the case of the highest educated of christianity -- the ministers.

So you are equating all clergymen to Michael Heiser in intellect, and equating all scientists to guys that "watch football and believe because someone told him so"? Sorry, but the science agree with evolution, no matter how much you don't like that fact. Yes, higher intellect is required for science, engineering, and tons of other practical fields, than it is for being a priest. Sorry, that's a basic fact of life. Sure, you can have very intelligent priests and clergymen, but it isn't a requirement, and folks get paid way more for intellectually demanding jobs like programming and engineering and thus you see way more intelligent people in those professions, than working for the church.

i do them one step better. i believe super massive black holes created the universe but that an intelligence guided the process.

If you accept that possibility, then why can't you accept the idea that god created evolution as well, or "guided the process"?

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: maes2
Do you mean moral rules?
Or physics rules?
The world follows no repeatable moral rules. Children are raped and murdred daily no Devine aid.
You had a really weird mix of theology and science there..... I'm open to the concept of a god, but think there is zero evidence for it. God isn't a universal constant to me so. I'm not sure what you were going for...

Of course I meant physical rules. Moral rules are for creatures who are free to decide like humanity. This is why moral rules are broken because humanity does not want to return to God. Neither religious ones nor non-religious ones.
Yes this world has become dirty because of what humanity has done. But we should not expect heaven in this world. It is a test. God is just. He will compensate.
More over God has promised in the divine books that Messiahs will come. Maybe still humanity has not reached the maturity. When humanity becomes disappointed of it's hand made ideologies, When his hope diminishes he has no choice unless to return to God and then the promised Messiahs come.

a reply to: Barcs

btw, this post of yours assumes the christian minister's level of intelligence is measurable against anybody else in the family, wherein you've stacked the deck so everyone else in the family is a scientist, by comparison. (not that there aren't christians who are scientists. we're ignoring that part)

a reply to: Barcs

the football guy may be a genius, like i said in my post above. but the author doesn't stipulate the conditions in the screenplay. and that's the kind of generalizations that made it possible to turn the entire german people against all jewish people and the russian people against all kulaks (the derogatory title given to ukrainians ).

first you have to dehumanize your target by making them seem inferior by birth. christians are born stupid, is what that amounts to.

a reply to: Barcs

a guided process, per your original remarks regarding what is and isn't a creationist, is suggestive of creationism. as i explained a few pages ago, i'm working on a hypothesis, wherein there were several major dispensations on earth. during each of these, a sentient lifeform of the species was predominant. i believe the first sentient lifeform was created and all subsequent sentient lifeforms in new major dispensations, were created/cloned from the prior sentient lifeform, with applicable upgrades relative to the species they represent being applied when a new major dispensation was begun. so smart frog people. smart reptile people. smart mammal people. that kinda thing.

the rest of the species may very well have had a natural evolutionary process. i don't know. i agree that micro evolution is happening and that the planet is very old. but i am not sure how much evolutionary process, primarily because of things like the honey bee and the human eye.

honey bees use vector calculus

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: Toadmund

I'll reiterate, every belief boils down to faith. If science finds evidence or proves something (until it later disprove that same something), and you believe him/her, then you have faith in their honesty. One need only take a research methods class to discover that the faith in academic honesty has been betrayed time and time again.

You have faith in the scientific proponents of Darwinism, but what about the (over 600) scientists who signed petitions in dissent of Darwinism? Many of them have relevant PhDs, and many of them are at ivy league universities. They aren't uneducated, and they know more about the debate than most of us on ATS. The proponents are in the majority, true, but it still proves the point that everything boils down to faith despite the "evidence".

I have been given more than enough evidence to maintain my faith in Jesus. It is evidence that is specific to me -- my experiences. I believe science provides an abundance of evidence in favor of God's existence. I believe that God to be the one of the Christian faith.

Everybody has to place their faith in something.

Perhaps these (over) 600 scientists are simply wrong.

And these scientists signed petitions of dissent?


So you are saying that jesus proved that he exists as the son of god to you, must be pretty convincing anecdotal evidence indeed!

Everybody has to place their faith in something.

Nobody has to place faith in anything, why believe something when you don't know what you are believing?

Educated people with Phd's can still be wrong and are subjected to fantasy just as well as anybody else and proves nothing.
Nice try.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Christianity will not go away. Islam will, but Christianity will not go away. Here's why:

Hearken, O ye people. My friend ye have asked concerning this people.
They have forsaken the statutes and judgments that I gave to their fathers.
Each state was to be a republic. United they were to stand together.
In some now the mobs rule. The majority is more often wrong, and not right.
Apostasy has always grown slowly, each generation so slightly departs from mine truth; they think they can improve on what their God has said.
I am eternal, unchangeable, as mine holy prophets have spoken before.
Eternal laws are still the same. Yet the most of this people will choose Al Gore as President. The republic is abandoned. The majority rule. There is no such thing as a democratic republic. The people's Republic of China, is not a republic. The communist masses rule there. That is like saying a woman is a little pregnant. Or that someone is a little dead. No such thing ever existed in all eternity. Now the people choose their own senate. This was not to be.
It was not always so. They choose to have a democracy, not a republic.
Their President was to be chosen by wise men selected that understand my commandments. They were to be a college of electors to grant the powers of the people. Now the people want to rule. Just as they wanted King Saul.
They wanted their own ways, and not to follow my commands. So judgment must come. They were to be represented by wise men.
Now they have chosen to tell them what to believe and how to vote. So judges are corrupt.
Your fathers were given the correct eternal plan.
Now many that have forsaken my eternal law seek to have their own way. I am God and have the right to rule. Everyone else in agreement does not make anything right.
Much provision is written in your Constitution for selecting a President.
But men have become lazy with mine words. They want an easy choice.
But they must labor for glory as others who have gone before.
Where the strongest rules, has always cost much blood and many lives.
My government is to be upon law. Not who is strongest or popular.
When men forsake mine law, judgment must come as I told thee before.
There is no other choice. As they have sown, so shall they reap. Eternal law does not change. But men try to nullify eternal law and they suffer the consequences. The system was properly conceived by wise men I raised up.
To select leaders, appoint judges, to administer the law, to protect the people. Now lawlessness abounds. Killers and rapists increase daily.
I must burn the tares that the good seed shall have room to grow. Now everyone has to choose not just those wise men. This is not right. This people do choose apostasy to bring upon themselves their own destruction. Teach those who are left as the remnant, that my law is eternal. Thus saith your Lord. Amen.
-- From the Parowan Prophet, April 6, 2000 (I am not him).

My friend you have asked about the thousands that have died shortly. This is only a beginning of the misery and death of many millions.
Those who deny the signs, hell awaits them. Those who have no repentance until death, the chastisements of hell shall they see.
True Prophets have been sent to warn, but unbelievers and hypocrites, both men and women who deny the signs, and are deaf to my words and will not see with their eyes because of their pride and tradition shall feel the fires of hell.

Osama bin Laden has only been a puppet in the hands of his master.
To do that which was in his power to do. Others who helped him to accomplish his work ye have spoken of before. I told thee before that Saddam shall soon die. Now ye can understand the reason for my wrath upon the people. They have not done as my servant Moses commanded. So the words of Obadiah, Joel, and Esdras are now coming to fulfillment.

I have said before that Zion must become very terrible to those who deny mine words. Fire upon Babylon must come. The works of Satan must be burned and destroyed. I have said before to let the wheat and tares grow together until the time of the harvest. That day has now come. The reapers will harvest the earth of the tares as the field is burned.

I know who has obeyed, I see all. There is no place to hide. Have no fear of my wrath if ye are in my service. If ye have done all that is within your own power to do. But if ye can read mine servant's words and ye scoff at my commands, expect to see the fires of hell that ye have chosen thyself.

Mine true Apostles have warned through the ages that this was coming. No one needs to be surprised. They have the books of warnings. But they will not read; they chase after the things that perish.
And lay not up riches in heaven, but desire more than their daily needs.

The people will unite in their wrath because of those dead. Yet mine angels are united in their wrath, and the blood of saints cries from the earth for vengeance upon the unbelievers even now, these many ages.

I have said the day has come. Repent O ye people, before death takes you into hell forevermore. Those who have no repentance until death shall have grievous chastisements. Say to the unbelievers, you shall be driven into hell. I excuse myself not. Mine servants have spoken so plainly.
--- From the Parowan Prophet, 9-13-2001 (again, I'm not him)

I had a vision August 8th. And went to Salt Lake to tell people. See this link: parowanprophet.com/so_plain.htm

The Statue of Liberty had her robe burnt off.
She dropped the torch and squatted down to cover her naked breasts and private parts like any woman would do. She was so skinny she looked just like a 2nd. World War concentration camp survivor.
Her bony butt was blown off the pedestal into the water.
She began to swim west to the Sunset. The water turned red and began to boil as she swam. That was a month ago today, back on August 8th.
August 27, the planet “Mars” was the closest in 60,000 years. It was the “Roman” God of War. It is the red “blood” planet. And God has said: In Genesis 1: 14
“And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:” Genesis 1:14
The signs and season of War approaches. Mars the god of War.
--- From the Parowan Prophet, August 8th.

originally posted by: EltonJ
a reply to: ArtemisE

Christianity will not go away. Islam will, but Christianity will not go away. Here's why:

Hearken, O ye people. My friend ye have asked concerning this people.
They have forsaken the statutes and judgments that I gave to their fathers.
Each state was to be a republic. United they were to stand together.
In some now the mobs rule. The majority is more often wrong, and not right.
Apostasy has always grown slowly, each generation so slightly departs from mine truth; they think they can improve on what their God has said.
I am eternal, unchangeable, as mine holy prophets have spoken before.
Eternal laws are still the same. Yet the most of this people will choose Al Gore as President. The republic is abandoned. The majority rule. There is no such thing as a democratic republic. The people's Republic of China, is not a republic. The communist masses rule there. That is like saying a woman is a little pregnant. Or that someone is a little dead. No such thing ever existed in all eternity. Now the people choose their own senate. This was not to be.
It was not always so. They choose to have a democracy, not a republic.
Their President was to be chosen by wise men selected that understand my commandments. They were to be a college of electors to grant the powers of the people. Now the people want to rule. Just as they wanted King Saul.
They wanted their own ways, and not to follow my commands. So judgment must come. They were to be represented by wise men.
Now they have chosen to tell them what to believe and how to vote. So judges are corrupt.
Your fathers were given the correct eternal plan.
Now many that have forsaken my eternal law seek to have their own way. I am God and have the right to rule. Everyone else in agreement does not make anything right.
Much provision is written in your Constitution for selecting a President.
But men have become lazy with mine words. They want an easy choice.
But they must labor for glory as others who have gone before.
Where the strongest rules, has always cost much blood and many lives.
My government is to be upon law. Not who is strongest or popular.
When men forsake mine law, judgment must come as I told thee before.
There is no other choice. As they have sown, so shall they reap. Eternal law does not change. But men try to nullify eternal law and they suffer the consequences. The system was properly conceived by wise men I raised up.
To select leaders, appoint judges, to administer the law, to protect the people. Now lawlessness abounds. Killers and rapists increase daily.
I must burn the tares that the good seed shall have room to grow. Now everyone has to choose not just those wise men. This is not right. This people do choose apostasy to bring upon themselves their own destruction. Teach those who are left as the remnant, that my law is eternal. Thus saith your Lord. Amen.
-- From the Parowan Prophet, April 6, 2000 (I am not him).

My friend you have asked about the thousands that have died shortly. This is only a beginning of the misery and death of many millions.
Those who deny the signs, hell awaits them. Those who have no repentance until death, the chastisements of hell shall they see.
True Prophets have been sent to warn, but unbelievers and hypocrites, both men and women who deny the signs, and are deaf to my words and will not see with their eyes because of their pride and tradition shall feel the fires of hell.

Osama bin Laden has only been a puppet in the hands of his master.
To do that which was in his power to do. Others who helped him to accomplish his work ye have spoken of before. I told thee before that Saddam shall soon die. Now ye can understand the reason for my wrath upon the people. They have not done as my servant Moses commanded. So the words of Obadiah, Joel, and Esdras are now coming to fulfillment.

I have said before that Zion must become very terrible to those who deny mine words. Fire upon Babylon must come. The works of Satan must be burned and destroyed. I have said before to let the wheat and tares grow together until the time of the harvest. That day has now come. The reapers will harvest the earth of the tares as the field is burned.

I know who has obeyed, I see all. There is no place to hide. Have no fear of my wrath if ye are in my service. If ye have done all that is within your own power to do. But if ye can read mine servant's words and ye scoff at my commands, expect to see the fires of hell that ye have chosen thyself.

Mine true Apostles have warned through the ages that this was coming. No one needs to be surprised. They have the books of warnings. But they will not read; they chase after the things that perish.
And lay not up riches in heaven, but desire more than their daily needs.

The people will unite in their wrath because of those dead. Yet mine angels are united in their wrath, and the blood of saints cries from the earth for vengeance upon the unbelievers even now, these many ages.

I have said the day has come. Repent O ye people, before death takes you into hell forevermore. Those who have no repentance until death shall have grievous chastisements. Say to the unbelievers, you shall be driven into hell. I excuse myself not. Mine servants have spoken so plainly.
--- From the Parowan Prophet, 9-13-2001 (again, I'm not him)

I had a vision August 8th. And went to Salt Lake to tell people. See this link: parowanprophet.com/so_plain.htm

The Statue of Liberty had her robe burnt off.
She dropped the torch and squatted down to cover her naked breasts and private parts like any woman would do. She was so skinny she looked just like a 2nd. World War concentration camp survivor.
Her bony butt was blown off the pedestal into the water.
She began to swim west to the Sunset. The water turned red and began to boil as she swam. That was a month ago today, back on August 8th.
August 27, the planet “Mars” was the closest in 60,000 years. It was the “Roman” God of War. It is the red “blood” planet. And God has said: In Genesis 1: 14
“And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:” Genesis 1:14
The signs and season of War approaches. Mars the god of War.
--- From the Parowan Prophet, August 8th.

So the reason Christianity won't ever die is because the bible says it won't? Lmao!

Isn't that ignoring the mountain of things the bible got wrong????

a reply to: ArtemisE

I'm not sure, but I think we've just been served a sermon..

From 2008 -

Meet Leland Freeborn, also known as the Parowan Prophet. He has made news by predicting that Obama will never take office. Read about his prophecies and see photos of him below.

Leland Freeborn is a 66 year old former Mormon from Parowan, Utah. He is the father of twelve and has a wife and a *plural* wife. He also claims to be a Prophet of God.

Mr. Freeborn had a plane accident a few decades ago and spent 3 weeks in a coma. When he awakened, he realized the good Lord had shown him World War 3 and he began his mission to inform the public of the impending doom. He started that mission by giving away his wealth and leaving the Mormon church. He maintains a website with regular updates of his vision and knowledge and has the requisite donate button available for those that believe. He claims over a 100k visitors, but to be honest, that really isn’t all that great. I had that many my first year blogging over 3 years ago …. I just forgot to add that darn donate button.

He accurately predicted O.J. Simpson’s murder acquittal and Al Gore’s winning of the popular vote in 2000. Oh wow! He now predicts that Barack Hussein Obama will never take the oath of the President, as we will all be under a nuclear attack by this Christmas. Those attacks, he says, will be coming from Russia.

He has emphatically stated ‘He will not be the next president.’

Right Wing Pundits - Parowan Prophet is Leland Freeborn


Yeah...... that Obama prediction and nuclear war by Xmas in 2008 didn't quite turn out... Not too impressive for a self proclaimed prophet of God, eh?


These kind of nutjobs exist by casting a wide net, throwing out all sorts of random and crazy predictions, but then to cap it off they only focus on the hits, and never on the misses. Hold them up to the hard light of truth and examine them without bias and you'll find their claims melt away.

Just another charlatan, and people who are taken in by it could do better by using a little critical thinking.

a reply to: ArtemisE

this is foolishness, as much as science would like to seperate itself from God the further it progresses the more it is made to admit intelligent design of 1 creator...
Creation is Gods science...
His fingerprint is on all of creation and all are bound by his law...

Considering how vague the title "Christian" really is. I can not see the religion ever fully coming to an end. Its numbers will reduce due to scientific objections as well as moral criticisms but it will still be around a long time.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Thoughts right here and now. This place is much, much older than anyone can think about. There have been civilisations upon civilisations . In the new Americas we drill with Big Drills and even if we hit something cool - well It doesn't matter. It's just rocks after all. No one picking their way through, seeing what's what. What sifts to the top is speculative. Do you even employ sifters now? Big, Big Machinery grinding away...Maybe you should see what was before you see what would be...