Jacksonville Implements Orwellian Police State, Going to 18,000 Homes Looking for Drugs and Guns

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: bbracken677

Watch cops for a while and you will indeed see they are being trained that way.

*facepalm*

So that proves they are being trained that way? Or is it a way to provoke a response that will give something away? Are they talking to people with records or in suspicious circumstances? Or are they talking to Joe Blow at home with no record who is just exercising his rights?

Context is everything....

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

I have personally done this however I didn't have to lock my door. The police came by for a noise complaint when me and my girlfriend were fighting...I walked out to address them and went to shut my door. They said they needed to be able to talk with her as well so I told them I would leave the door open but she didn't want to come out. I also notified them I did not grant permission to enter and guess what...they respected that conducted themselves very professionally and left without any problems. Now I'm sure had I not known I had to notify them I did not permit entry they would have walked right on in. I was also polite and curt so not to bruise egos lol.

this whole post seems as though it is being answered by non u.s. citizens or people that don't seem to know that 9/11 really happened. so, whats up with the pre 9/11 mentality on here? I could be wrong but I thought every American has heard of the Patriot Act. does this not apply to florida? don't think so.

you see, under the patriot act you have no rights. the whole Miranda rights if they arrest you is no longer a valid point. they don't have too. with bush creating the patriot act, and Obama renewing it. it has not gone away. it is still in place and the government is acting accordingly. nevermind that we should all storm the castle over this, we didn't and it is still in effect. hell they could put the whole city of boston under martial law if they wanted. ohh wait...

en.wikipedia.org...

Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of indefinite detentions of immigrants; the permission given law enforcement officers to search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s consent or knowledge

a search warrant. haha please.
I think the next step for this forum is too look up exactly how the dept. of homeland security defines a terrorist. you may be surprised to know it includes anyone who checks out alternative media and does not believe in the mass media. does this include ats? if so, we are considered terrorists just for looking here. and if we are defined as terrorists, exactly how are you going to keep them out of your house legally, with the patriot act in full effect?

a reply to: letscit

The point you bring up, regarding the Patriot Act, is the thing that literally has scared the mess out of me since it was first passed. I told my friends that I doubted the current president would abuse the powers, and I doubted the next president would...but the 3rd or 4th president down the line would abuse the hell out of it. We are rapidly approaching that period....

I have no doubt there have been some abuses, but not to the degree which I mean.

The Patriot Act is the single largest threat to our nation, to our way of life and to our liberty.

What everyone is overlooking is the officers 6th sense. You know the one .

His eyes are red,
He smelled like ,
He acted guilty,
He slurred his speech ,
I thought I saw a bruise on wife, kid ect,
Wont make eye contact,
Kept staring at me,
I thought I saw him hiding something ,
The house reeked with the smell of marijuana,
The house reeked with the smell of chemicals used to manufacture meth,
The house reeked with the smell of bleach used to manufacture meth,
The house reeked with the smell of ammonia used to manufacture meth,
The house reeked with the smell of sulfur used to manufacture meth,
The house reeked with the smell of animal waste had to get Child services involved,
Animals looked miss treated,
A lot of plastic containers and plastic bottles in and around the home indicative of manufacturing meth,
It looked like hes got tracks on his arm,
Drops on the sidewalk looked like blood,
I thought I heard a woman scream,
I thought I heard a child scream,
I thought I saw --------- laying on the -------- that is considered drug paraphernalia

25 years ago single or in multiples would be sufficient for a no warrant search or enough to get a sympathetic judge to write a warrant . Lower the bar for the new laws . If they want to search they will find a way they will search.

Hope Jacksonville has a good police force. If this is as stated might be okay or its just one huge fishing expedition.

a reply to: Sremmos80

And this type of thinking is flawed, why does invoking your rights now make you suspicious?

And most people don't feel the need to do that unless they have a reason to do so. And a cop just trying to ask you for some help in the community really doesn't seem a good reason to do so.

Why are they being trained that way?

Keeps them from becoming complacent, and not letting your guard down no matter who they are could be the difference of coming home at the end of the night or having your loved ones be told you won't.

a reply to: letscit

a reply to: bbracken677

So true They said it would never apply to US citizens unless were in cahoots with the enemies . Ha can we say NSA spying . 6 months after it passed a punk gangster drive by rivals gang wedding he gets terrorism charges added to his sentence . Didnt they just say "would never apply to US citizens unless were in cahoots with the enemies". Read a list that outlines who might be a domestic terrorist omg 90 % is . Now we are the enemy .

I always thought homeland sounded too close to motherland like the SS or the old KGB. I didn't give Bush the leeway on the Patriot act if given more powers a government will use them and push the edge . I voted for Bush and didnt trust him with the power and I dont trust Obama with it either I felt our founders were spinning in their graves over it. (that's the strange humm people are hearing LOL)

To me Patriot act is taking us places we dont want to be and will never go back what it was like before it.

originally posted by: DustbowlDebutante
As far as I know, they can knock all day, but they still have to ask permission to enter your home unless they have a search warrant and/or probable cause.

And I would stress, if they had a search warrant for all 18,000 homes, that would be unconstitutional. You cannot just get a search warrant "rubber stamped" or use "probable cause" since at least a few of those homes would have something illegal... They pull that crap at schools, and yet, you Americans just sit by and let this government stomp over your rights. Shameful Americans.

Is this Jacksonville, FL?
The article is not clear where this city is.

I lived in Jacksonville, Fl from 2007-2010 and they would send plain clothes(undercover) officers door to door to look and smell around back then. They also did an extremely poor job in my opinion on fighting real crime like theft, rape, and murders. I could go on with my experience with JSO and Duval County Florida's extremely corrupt police force and court system but I will save that for another post.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

It doesn't matter what the cop is doing, if you don't want to talk or let a cop search your house it is your right to have it not happen.
The cop should not be trained then to assume that since you are invoking the right that you are hiding something.

a reply to: bbracken677

Fair that might have been the best example but it is where I see it happen all the time.
And again, this is all coming from the other user that continues to say they are trained that way and it is ok.
So can you talk to him about how cops are not trained that way and it is ridiculous to say so??

a reply to: Sremmos80
Aye....

Sorry, but you had asked the question and I answered. I was not referring to anything you said when I commented that the suggestion they were being trained as such was ridiculous...just the idea that they were being trained as such was ridiculous. I found little that you had stated to disagree with.

a reply to: bbracken677
So you agree that they should not have the line of thought that if your invoke the 5th that they should be come suspicious, but needed to add that cops do not get trained in that practice, it just happens to try and provoke someone to comply?

Or is it a way to provoke a response that will give something away?

I don't see how they can use it to provoke a response with out being trained that it will...
Or am I missing something?

a reply to: Sremmos80

No, I meant like a flash of guilt ... stuttering or whatever that would give away that the guy actually did have something to hide. Problem is, that is still not probably cause lol. But I could see an cop saying things to provoke the perp to trip up, provide conflicting information etc.

a reply to: bbracken677

I understand what you are saying, just not sure how you can say they do that with out being trained to do so?
Either by the instructors at the academy or by the salty vets, some one is spreading the idea that if you question the reasoning of them invoking the right, you may get a flash of guilt as you say.
I guess my long story short is they have no reason to question your invoking of your rights, which it seems you do agree with

a reply to: Sremmos80

I would agree with you and have no experience whatsoever of them doing that, I just pulled a guess out of my wahoo lol.

I don't think you need any particular training to try and trip people up lol. I used to do it all the time when I suspected an employee or vendor of lying about something. I also like to ask questions I already know the answer to just to see how the other guy answers. You can easily find out if someone is BSing you that way. I can be pretty devious when it comes to "Sherlocking" lol and I had no training whatsoever.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: concerned190

This is what the article says so I am assuming they plan on entering homes without warrants.

Why? Why do you think they would announce a program of illegal entry?

Rutherford said his officers plan to knock on 18,000 doors in an effort to reach out into the community to ask people to help them solve these crimes.

"We know the key to solving and preventing this activity is connecting with the community," Rutherford said.

news.wjct.org...

I suppose the real question is how did the police obtain the illegal guns and tiny bits of coc aine and marijuana?

Did they:
1. knock on door
2. claim they smelled something
3. enter and search w/o warrant

Or did they get tips from law abiding citizens and obtain warrants to enter the homes that the citizens provided tips for?

The world may never know...

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Willtell

“If you don’t let us in you have something to hide”

If you don't have something to hide what would be the problem?

The NAZI's made that line famous. And look where it got the Jews.

It is called Knock and Talk.

The police all over the US have been doing this for a long time in secret with undercover 'detectives.' Mostly in the name of the drug war.

I lived in Jacksonville for years, even the majority of security force on the base I was at agreed that JSO goes too far, that was back in 2008.

Apparently they have stepped up their 'game' since then. When I lived there I did encounter undercovers(UCs) performing a knock and talk on my apartment at least once. Fortunately they did not try to force entry to snoop around*.....

*not to imply i was doing anything illegal, one time I had a couple trying to 'sell magazines door to door', right off the start their questions flagged me, it was like I was being interviewed, then they asked if I could get illegal stuff for them to buy. Little did they know my Xgirlfriend was getting locked and loaded while I was getting interviewed...had they forced entry it would have got messy. That said they never identified themselves had no clue what they were up against. I'm no dummy and their line of questioning for magazine salesmen flagged me among other things. They were visibly upset when I told them to go away.

originally posted by: concerned190
The Jacksonville police department announced it would be knocking on 18000 homes without warrants. Can they do this? Can you still say not without a warrant?
thefreethoughtproject.com...

Stupid to do it. Even more stupid to announce it beforehand.