Russia and China dumped the US - Petro dollar and Dow Drops

originally posted by: elysiumfire
Go Russia! Go China! Go the BRICS countries!

Do you actually believe this BS?

This is just as clear as pick a political party, but the players are all the same.

If I was a world cartel leader and I saw that people were catching on to how things are done monetarily worldwide; I would toss a Red Herring out for the masses to confuse, and pacify angers or tensions.

Go Russia! Go China...................................same players behind the banks

a reply to: Phage


They're simply working out pricing .. these things happen in phases.. it's been signed ..it will move forward ..

a reply to: junglimogli

Yeah. Turns out the report was in error.

In other news, US markets seem fine.
Dollar is up a bit at the moment.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Great plan.

Except do that and the USA will NEVER be able to borrow of anyone EVER again. The US would be a liability to lenders

Your USD will devalue too the value of my turds.


You and china both have each other by the balls, it economic mutaly asured destruction.:

Nonsense! There are always banksters willing to buy the blue sky. There are still plenty of dimes and nickles in the US and there is an unlimited number of people eager to sell their souls to get them. One thing this world will never run short of is greedy fools.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Telos

Do you really think you know more than the most brilliant economists of two of the most distinct countries on Earth? Seriously????

Do you actually think that China wants to ruin the US economy? Seriously???

The deal between China and Russia will have no effect on the dollar. It may carry some symbolic significance but that's it. The majority of international trade in both countries is in dollars.

I wasn't really analyzing that but your comment on their inability to see the futility of their actions and the realization of that as a mistake. Honestly, that's to much. Personally I'm a very well educated person with several degrees but I restrain myself to criticize the brightest minds of russian and chinese stock. I think you are part of that american mentality that no one else but americans are great, the rest of the world is not smart enough forgetting the undeniable truth that this country became great by exploiting and importing the brain power from other countries.

a reply to: Telos

I think you are part of that american mentality that no one else but americans are great,

No. Not at all.

I admit my comment last night was overboard, but it occurred in a greater context. But I don't think the symbolic currency deal will last.

a reply to: Telos

Telos,

This is not a US dollar issue, nor China, or Russian, it is about a world cartel that wants the masses to think something is changing, but in all honesty it's just another fiat currency play/illusion.

For those that don't understand the world banking system here is a great video that sums it up nicely.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

And "bomb us into demacracy", as the saying goes. 8-) Next world war will be a nuclear war. I think it rhymes with freedom. Or here, take thermonuclear. Lol. This one rhymes with land of the free. Hah, so sweet.
I don't want to die. You don't want to die. So why not live in peace. Oh, I forgot, the Americans don't have a say in this. Neither do the Russians, though. I'll meet you up there. We can have a talk on who's right and wrong when we're all dead.

originally posted by: borntowatch
It will effect the US as 90 billion US dollars will flood the market

It will be a surplus on an already jittery market

The US $ will devalue, just watch

What do you think this story is about, nothing?

Do you think Russia and China are just doing this for fun, no plan or outcome devised.

90 billion will "flood" the market.... ha ha ha ha ha!

Ben Bernanke's merry elves were selling an extra 75 billon of dollars every month for years.

Total currency trading volume is USD $5.3 trillion a day.

www.reuters.com...

Note: Bank of International Settlements computed and reported volume in US dollars.

originally posted by: np6888
Honestly, I don't know why you would put sanctions on Russia in the first place. The Russians have enough nukes to destroy the world 7 times over, so no amount of sanctions is going to weaken them. People keep saying that the Russians annexed Crimea, but the fact is 97% voted to join the Russians. Granted, the Russians' army were there, but even if they weren't, the spirit of the vote would probably be 70%.

Doesn't matter. You can't steal a province and not pay for it. Really---what fraction of Ukraine's debts did Russia pay off? None of course.

And when is that separatist vote happening in Chechnya and Dagestan? To be fair, we need to have al-Qaida militiamen take over the local government and "supervise" the election results.

IMO, the reason that Putin has to deal with China is because he has no other clients, and he has a lot of oil to sell off.

Notice how the Chinese are STFUing about this and not making any big PR stink.

They're in it for the business---they are no fools at all. Chinese: "oh we get to buy oil and gas for cheap from a blustery kleptocrat in a broken country who needs the revenue to pay off his political allies? Awesome. Since we have him by the nuts, let's bid just a bit lower. EU Sanctions? Bid goes down again. "

a reply to: Phage

China is independent.
America's dept to China is quite big. I assume, around 10 trill. I'm not sure www.usdebtclock.org... has the right figures, but is exists and is quite adequate. Does it incluce corporate debts? Does it include the debt to it's citizens? And so on.
I remember that the US owees around 3-5 trill to the EU. 2 years ago, it was 3 trill.
They do not own the US. You can't own another country and it's people. That is a historically-proven misconclusion, regarding all nations. China has shares in many US companies and that is the main threat to the US now. If the US cannot pay off the debt they owe to china, what road will the US government take then? Simply give away US-owned company shares to China. The US government has shares in many major companies. Of course, they could make them bankrupt soon after, but then US-Chinese relations will be in the # and who nows what will follow.
Or the US could go communist and nationalize the Chinese share in US companies. In any case, it is a windy road one would not take without a good reason. And ditching a major economic partner for that reason is not the way to go.

originally posted by: GAOTU789

I agree, any of this requires China to loosen the reigns on the Yuan and how it's valued. At this point, they don't have to do that but at some point, when the Chinese feel it is most advantageous to them and their allies, they will do it, I have no doubt about that.

Yes that's true.

If the United States loses the dollar as the currency used to trade oil in, the status as the worlds reserve currency won't be far behind.

No, that's not what would happen. What will happen is that the renmibi will join the US dollar and euro as the world's most common and liquid currencies. There will be no catastrophe. People will trust the US dollar banking system more than the Chinese one for many decades, there's an intrinsic disadvantage to being a non-democratic dictatorship.

After 1960 or so there were 3 prominent currencies as well, US dollar, UK pound and Deutsche Mark.

People overestimate the importance of the oil trade on currency demand. The bond market is the big gorilla.

The thing is, the Chinese see things in the long term. They are an ancient country and culture and waiting decades for a plan to come to fruition isn't out of their scope of patience. This type of economic warfare takes decades imo and the Chinese have the patience to wait it out, again imo.

It's not exactly warfare, but Chinese are definitely in it for themselves, and they are going to succeed.

If any of this were true the dollar and global stocks would be in freefall and I mean freefall to make the 2008 bust look gradual.

Interesting Times ahead....

Oh...wait...

"May you live in interesting times!"
Ancient Chinese Curse

np6888:

There is a reason why the UFOs decided to hand the nukes over to the U.S, instead of the Chinese.

I'm sorry...what? "UFOs decided to hand the nukes over to the U.S"!!! Your statement speaks volumes and says it all...and you're on the same planet as I am? Now that is frightening!

HanzHenry:

CHINA. We need to bomb them back to the 1950s. Seize all the US based assets, cancel the debt, and leave them to the wolves.

You think this is okay? Just because a country rises up to compete economically, you as an American want to bomb them back to the '1950s'? What a piece of work you are! Anyway, this deal brings Russia and China together as mutual interests, if you bomb one, you'll now have to contend with the other. The Bear and the Dragon will be sharing the same cave.

You and your mindset is an example of why America needs taking down a peg or two. I can tell you now, pal, America won't be bombing either country unless it wants to be destroyed in the same process. Russia and China have now led by business example, other countries over the years will follow suit. There will be no immediate effect on the petrodollar today or in the coming few years. This Russo-Sino deal will have no effect at all on the petrodollar on its own, it is when other countries follow the same business pattern that things begin to look dire for the dollar.

By the way, you can't 'cancel the debt', because if you do, you'll have no one to trade with, you would end up destroying your own economy . Once again we have Americans refusing to deal in reality, seeking to rationalize through irrational thinking that things will always be the same and be okay. In denial much?

Realtruth:

Do you actually believe this BS?

Is it BS? Please explain how my opinion is BS! I am entitled to think in whatever way I wish to, and if it irks you...well, TS!

This is just as clear as pick a political party, but the players are all the same.

Oh you think so? Wrong on so many levels. Culturally, the players are very different, antagonistically they are different, ideologically the players are very different. With regard to their future, the players are very different...so, how are the players the same?

Phage:

In other news, US markets seem fine. Dollar is up a bit at the moment.

Of course the American markets are fine, why wouldn't they be? If you are told it is going to rain in a few days, you don't immediately look out the window to see if is raining right away...what would be the point of doing so?

No. As I have stated earlier in this post, the real effects will not arrive until other countries follow the same business example as this Russo-Sino deal, it could take a couple of decades, even more.

You said it (quite correctly) yourself, Phage, China won't want to hurt their American investments, but the petrodollar has not been used in the deal between Russia and China. In time, other countries will follow this business pattern, and when they do, the slow domino effect of the decline of the petrodollar will entail.

No country on this planet requires permission from America to do business with another country, nor do they have to use the dollar in payments. This deal, in time to come, will be used as the one that ushered in the petrodollar's decline. America and Americans will no longer benefit from other countries doing energy business with each other...and the world needs it.

So, this is why we are going to war with them now...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MessageforAll
No.

"We won't be signing," Mao Zefeng told the FT. "At the moment the import price and the domestic price are inverted. We are already losing money on imported gas, and we can't lose more."

www.usatoday.com...

I don't think any scource with USA in it is a trustworthy scource. When it comes to what Russia and China's doing in their own backyard.Why would you present that as a relible scource to defend your position. It is is a desperate wish. You may wish to unfold your arms in your avatar, you look defensive and pouty.The deal has been done, it is now a fact. USATODAY ain't looking to good now are they? All credibility is gone forever.

well it was a good run,,

J.D.Rockefeller


1932 Formation of Saudi Arabia.

Ibn-Saud-of-Saudi-Arabia

Remember the words of a famous American,,no NOT Rahm Emmanuel




yaa.



and more important,

does that mean "IN GOD WE TRUST",,,is now dead?

This should be interesting. Not being an international monetary expert, I'm not certain of the exact extent of this type trading. I'm not even sure if this is a major event , (after all zero hedge you know), or even if this is the first experiment of this type. Nothing is certain, and it would seem possible that due the delicate nature of trust and trade, this arrangement may fall flat on it's face. Both parties may in the end feel they have a bucket of nothing monetarily.

A world reserve currency may just be the lubricate that keeps wold trade viable. All the different fiat paper swapping back and froth could lead to confusion, and ultimately distrust. In the end everyone wants the paper that works best for them. And with out a strong consensus, some may find they have a boat load of nothing.

Don't forget the Us Dollar didn't get to be the real deal for nothing. It is backed, like most successful things in world affairs, a very big stick.

originally posted by: Meee32

originally posted by: lostbook
Well if the Dollar really is about to tank then this might be the perfect time to start using Bitcoin. It's unregulated but I'm not sure if it has any international appeal.

Are you for real? Lmao... Do you think Bitcoin is american? LOL... Its a worldwide open source currency... The chinese loves thier coins too btw... International appeal! Hahahha

EDIT: Besides Bitcoin might not be your best bet, coins like Netcoin (internet, net, netcoin, better name than bitcoin?) are 100's of times cheaper and so a LOT less risky! You may even strike it rich.

I know it's not American; its creator is a Japanese guy. I'm not saying "buy Bitcoin" "buy Bitcoin," just contemplating the potential.