Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

This individual has nothing to do with Putin, so why go there? It was his name and the video showed him meeting with a member of the government the day before the fire, you asked for the link and I gave it. Any thoughts on the link between this man and the government? ( I cannot mention hos name because you are not allowed to post personal info, even though it was his arrest warrant and a YouTube video which are both publicly available, if the scumbags didn't mind being filmed shooting people, I doubt he would mind his name being on ATS but anyway) any thoughts on it?

Yes, there are violent scumbags in Ukraine. Some of them have even gotten themselves into the legitimate interim coalition government. I was reacting to the fact that your source for this information contains many details about the activities of members of Svoboda, but does not concern itself with the civil rights violations of the Yanukovych government, the militants in Eastern Ukraine, the violence perpetrated by Russian agitprop agents... in fact, it appears to be an NGO funded by the Russian government. This is precisely the sort of activity that the United States has acknowledged it has spent "five billion dollars" on. Now, is the United States evil for doing this? Or is it all right for the US to do what Russia is doing? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by claiming that this NGO is completely objective and there has never been any human rights abuse in Ukraine except on the part of the interim government?

This is a thread about Odessa, this individual was caught on film shooting people trying to escape the burning building in Odessa, he was caught in a video talking with members of the government the day before and he was caught on the phone speaking to someone in the government the day of the massacre, this is surly pertinent to the topic at hand as it clearly shows a connection between the events that day and the government, if you want to start a thread about yanukovych and his human rights abuses please do, I might stop by it but do you have anything to add to this? Any proof that the information is false? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by posting back off topic posts?

a reply to: sosobad

This is a thread about Odessa, this individual was caught on film shooting people trying to escape the burning building in Odessa, he was caught in a video talking with members of the government the day before and he was caught on the phone speaking to someone in the government the day of the massacre, this is surly pertinent to the topic at hand as it clearly shows a connection between the events that day and the government, if you want to start a thread about yanukovych and his human rights abuses please do, I might stop by it but do you have anything to add to this? Any proof that the information is false? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by posting back off topic posts?

Determining whether the source of your claims are valid is extremely relevant. ukraine-human-rights.org appeared out of nowhere on April 8th of this year, registered in "Panama" with an IP address spoofed to look like Germany:

www.whibse.com...

www.iplocation.net...

If this was a legitimate NGO concerned with human rights violations in Crimea, where have they been for the last ten years? How convenient that these people supposedly based in Germany are able to expose the evils of Svoboda and Right Sector, without critiquing Russia's use of force and coercion in the region. Oh, and why do they show no concern for Ukraine's Jews, Tatars and Romany, only its Russian speakers? On the one hand, I am glad to see the FSB using soft power, but they have not yet got the hang of it.

www.nytimes.com...

The United States and European nations say they have no intention of recognizing the ad hoc vote, no matter the results, calling it illegal and likely only to worsen the lethal violence in Ukraine’s east.

You can only vote if it looks like you are going to be voting for our puppets or so the USA thinks and locking people inside a building and setting it on fire is only a problem if we say so.

DONETSK, Ukraine — A steady stream of voters turned out at some polling stations Sunday for snap elections intended to legitimize two self-declared new countries in eastern Ukraine, a showing that will aid the secessionist cause.

The turnout in the capital was no guarantee people in towns elsewhere would also show support for the separatists, and even in Donetsk many who favored Ukrainian unity said they would stay home rather than vote.

The neo-nazi's will be getting paid double time today to keep people at home but you won't here anyone of the EU Puppets calling that a fix vote will you now.

Puting played Ice hocky yesterday and according to the press even that was fixed but it's not fixed when the Royals or Obama plays in a game and the team lets them score ! Again double standards but we are suposed to be so think that we never notice.

a reply to: DJW001

without critiquing Russia's use of force and coercion in the region.

The only force I see being used is the tanks sent from Kiev to kill protestors in the east of the Ukraine so just what is this use of force you are talking about because it seem to me that you pulled it fron no where and are blind to killing by the western backed puppets.

Come on mate show me this blood Russia has on it's hands

a reply to: VirusGuard

If you are going to post the same thing in multiple threads, please do not simply cut and paste. It reminds everyone that you are not expressing original thought.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Come on mate show me this blood Russia has on it's hands

www.haaretz.com...

Where was ukraine-human-rights.org when Russia's puppet was brutalizing his own people?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

This is a thread about Odessa, this individual was caught on film shooting people trying to escape the burning building in Odessa, he was caught in a video talking with members of the government the day before and he was caught on the phone speaking to someone in the government the day of the massacre, this is surly pertinent to the topic at hand as it clearly shows a connection between the events that day and the government, if you want to start a thread about yanukovych and his human rights abuses please do, I might stop by it but do you have anything to add to this? Any proof that the information is false? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by posting back off topic posts?

Determining whether the source of your claims are valid is extremely relevant. ukraine-human-rights.org appeared out of nowhere on April 8th of this year, registered in "Panama" with an IP address spoofed to look like Germany:

www.whibse.com...

www.iplocation.net...

If this was a legitimate NGO concerned with human rights violations in Crimea, where have they been for the last ten years? How convenient that these people supposedly based in Germany are able to expose the evils of Svoboda and Right Sector, without critiquing Russia's use of force and coercion in the region. Oh, and why do they show no concern for Ukraine's Jews, Tatars and Romany, only its Russian speakers? On the one hand, I am glad to see the FSB using soft power, but they have not yet got the hang of it.

You still have not shown me how any of this is false, so what the source was registered in April, I've seen threads started on sources less credible than this one, it is his arrest warrant and a video showing him meeting those in power, any proof that these are untrue? Or will you deflect again?

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

This is a thread about Odessa, this individual was caught on film shooting people trying to escape the burning building in Odessa, he was caught in a video talking with members of the government the day before and he was caught on the phone speaking to someone in the government the day of the massacre, this is surly pertinent to the topic at hand as it clearly shows a connection between the events that day and the government, if you want to start a thread about yanukovych and his human rights abuses please do, I might stop by it but do you have anything to add to this? Any proof that the information is false? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by posting back off topic posts?

Determining whether the source of your claims are valid is extremely relevant. ukraine-human-rights.org appeared out of nowhere on April 8th of this year, registered in "Panama" with an IP address spoofed to look like Germany:

www.whibse.com...

www.iplocation.net...

If this was a legitimate NGO concerned with human rights violations in Crimea, where have they been for the last ten years? How convenient that these people supposedly based in Germany are able to expose the evils of Svoboda and Right Sector, without critiquing Russia's use of force and coercion in the region. Oh, and why do they show no concern for Ukraine's Jews, Tatars and Romany, only its Russian speakers? On the one hand, I am glad to see the FSB using soft power, but they have not yet got the hang of it.

You still have not shown me how any of this is false, so what the source was registered in April, I've seen threads started on sources less credible than this one, it is his arrest warrant and a video showing him meeting those in power, any proof that these are untrue? Or will you deflect again?

Any proof that they are true, or will you deflect again?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

This is a thread about Odessa, this individual was caught on film shooting people trying to escape the burning building in Odessa, he was caught in a video talking with members of the government the day before and he was caught on the phone speaking to someone in the government the day of the massacre, this is surly pertinent to the topic at hand as it clearly shows a connection between the events that day and the government, if you want to start a thread about yanukovych and his human rights abuses please do, I might stop by it but do you have anything to add to this? Any proof that the information is false? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by posting back off topic posts?

Determining whether the source of your claims are valid is extremely relevant. ukraine-human-rights.org appeared out of nowhere on April 8th of this year, registered in "Panama" with an IP address spoofed to look like Germany:

www.whibse.com...

www.iplocation.net...

If this was a legitimate NGO concerned with human rights violations in Crimea, where have they been for the last ten years? How convenient that these people supposedly based in Germany are able to expose the evils of Svoboda and Right Sector, without critiquing Russia's use of force and coercion in the region. Oh, and why do they show no concern for Ukraine's Jews, Tatars and Romany, only its Russian speakers? On the one hand, I am glad to see the FSB using soft power, but they have not yet got the hang of it.

You still have not shown me how any of this is false, so what the source was registered in April, I've seen threads started on sources less credible than this one, it is his arrest warrant and a video showing him meeting those in power, any proof that these are untrue? Or will you deflect again?

Any proof that they are true, or will you deflect again?

Evidence speaks for itself, unless you think the video is cgi. Your credibility is waning....

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

This is a thread about Odessa, this individual was caught on film shooting people trying to escape the burning building in Odessa, he was caught in a video talking with members of the government the day before and he was caught on the phone speaking to someone in the government the day of the massacre, this is surly pertinent to the topic at hand as it clearly shows a connection between the events that day and the government, if you want to start a thread about yanukovych and his human rights abuses please do, I might stop by it but do you have anything to add to this? Any proof that the information is false? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by posting back off topic posts?

Determining whether the source of your claims are valid is extremely relevant. ukraine-human-rights.org appeared out of nowhere on April 8th of this year, registered in "Panama" with an IP address spoofed to look like Germany:

www.whibse.com...

www.iplocation.net...

If this was a legitimate NGO concerned with human rights violations in Crimea, where have they been for the last ten years? How convenient that these people supposedly based in Germany are able to expose the evils of Svoboda and Right Sector, without critiquing Russia's use of force and coercion in the region. Oh, and why do they show no concern for Ukraine's Jews, Tatars and Romany, only its Russian speakers? On the one hand, I am glad to see the FSB using soft power, but they have not yet got the hang of it.

You still have not shown me how any of this is false, so what the source was registered in April, I've seen threads started on sources less credible than this one, it is his arrest warrant and a video showing him meeting those in power, any proof that these are untrue? Or will you deflect again?

Any proof that they are true, or will you deflect again?

Evidence speaks for itself, unless you think the video is cgi. Your credibility is waning....

Or staged, edited and/or taken out of context. The arrest records can easily be forged. I'm not saying I think this individual is an innocent lamb, but I think your sources reek of lies.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

This is a thread about Odessa, this individual was caught on film shooting people trying to escape the burning building in Odessa, he was caught in a video talking with members of the government the day before and he was caught on the phone speaking to someone in the government the day of the massacre, this is surly pertinent to the topic at hand as it clearly shows a connection between the events that day and the government, if you want to start a thread about yanukovych and his human rights abuses please do, I might stop by it but do you have anything to add to this? Any proof that the information is false? Or are you going to further erode your credibility by posting back off topic posts?

Determining whether the source of your claims are valid is extremely relevant. ukraine-human-rights.org appeared out of nowhere on April 8th of this year, registered in "Panama" with an IP address spoofed to look like Germany:

www.whibse.com...

www.iplocation.net...

If this was a legitimate NGO concerned with human rights violations in Crimea, where have they been for the last ten years? How convenient that these people supposedly based in Germany are able to expose the evils of Svoboda and Right Sector, without critiquing Russia's use of force and coercion in the region. Oh, and why do they show no concern for Ukraine's Jews, Tatars and Romany, only its Russian speakers? On the one hand, I am glad to see the FSB using soft power, but they have not yet got the hang of it.

You still have not shown me how any of this is false, so what the source was registered in April, I've seen threads started on sources less credible than this one, it is his arrest warrant and a video showing him meeting those in power, any proof that these are untrue? Or will you deflect again?

Any proof that they are true, or will you deflect again?

Evidence speaks for itself, unless you think the video is cgi. Your credibility is waning....

Or staged, edited and/or taken out of context. The arrest records can easily be forged. I'm not saying I think this individual is an innocent lamb, but I think your sources reek of lies.

So no proof then? Other than you think.

a reply to: sosobad

So no proof then? Other than you think.

So no proof then? Other than Russia says?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

So no proof then? Other than you think.

So no proof then? Other than Russia says?

How very childish of you getting a bit butthurt because you have nothing to come back with?

a reply to: sosobad

How very childish of you getting a bit butthurt because you have nothing to come back with?

Let me explain it to you as though you were an adult. You have claimed that one of the arsonists has a criminal record, was videotaped receiving orders from Ukraine's president and then spotted shooting at unarmed fire victims. Here is the problem with your claims.

1) Your source is a website from a bogus NGO committed to spreading slander about non-Russian Ukrainians. It did not exist prior to last month and does not provide any information about its real location or sponsorship. There is every reason to believe it is an FSB black propaganda operation.

2) Police records are easily forged, so there is no way of telling whether the document is authentic. Even if it were, there is no telling whether a police record in a corrupt state is necessarily a bad thing. Ultimately, I do not doubt that the individual is probably a thug, but that doesn't mean that he is a murderous arsonist.

3) The first video simply shows two people crossing paths at a checkpoint. We really don't know how well the two know each other,and we certainly can't assume that the President is issuing secret homicidal orders in broad daylight in front of cameras.

4) There is no footage of the person you accuse of being an arsonist actually setting any fires.

5) Although he is clearly holding a gun and firing it, it looks as though he is responding to incoming fire. Rather than shooting at an innocent, unarmed victim, he may be shooting at a pro-Russian sniper on the roof. (There is film showing these snipers.)

In other words, your claims are based entirely on misconstruction, without genuine evidence in favor of your interpretation. Looks like it's time for you to change the subject again.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

How very childish of you getting a bit butthurt because you have nothing to come back with?

Let me explain it to you as though you were an adult. You have claimed that one of the arsonists has a criminal record, was videotaped receiving orders from Ukraine's president and then spotted shooting at unarmed fire victims. Here is the problem with your claims.

1) Your source is a website from a bogus NGO committed to spreading slander about non-Russian Ukrainians. It did not exist prior to last month and does not provide any information about its real location or sponsorship. There is every reason to believe it is an FSB black propaganda operation.

2) Police records are easily forged, so there is no way of telling whether the document is authentic. Even if it were, there is no telling whether a police record in a corrupt state is necessarily a bad thing. Ultimately, I do not doubt that the individual is probably a thug, but that doesn't mean that he is a murderous arsonist.

3) The first video simply shows two people crossing paths at a checkpoint. We really don't know how well the two know each other,and we certainly can't assume that the President is issuing secret homicidal orders in broad daylight in front of cameras.

4) There is no footage of the person you accuse of being an arsonist actually setting any fires.

5) Although he is clearly holding a gun and firing it, it looks as though he is responding to incoming fire. Rather than shooting at an innocent, unarmed victim, he may be shooting at a pro-Russian sniper on the roof. (There is film showing these snipers.)

In other words, your claims are based entirely on misconstruction, without genuine evidence in favor of your interpretation. Looks like it's time for you to change the subject again.

Show me the post where I accused this man of being the arsonist.

Show me the incoming fire that this man was receiving.

Show me that this information is forged. (still waiting for it)

I am not changing the subject


Finally why are you defending the members of Svoboda? This clearly shows the link between this man and Svoboda members but you want to deny it

a reply to: sosobad

Show me the post where I accused this man of being the arsonist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Show me the incoming fire that this man was receiving.

Show me the innocent victim he was aiming at.

Show me that this information is forged. (still waiting for it)

Show me an objective source that proves that this information is not forged.

I am not changing the subject

You just keep repeating yourself.

Finally why are you defending the members of Svoboda? This clearly shows the link between this man and Svoboda members but you want to deny it

I am not defending members of Svoboda; in fact, I am condemning them for their political beliefs and voiolent actions. The man we have been discussing probably is Svoboda. He probably is a thug. The issue now is why you are using a bogus NGO website as a source.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

Show me the post where I accused this man of being the arsonist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Show me the incoming fire that this man was receiving.

Show me the innocent victim he was aiming at.

Show me that this information is forged. (still waiting for it)

Show me an objective source that proves that this information is not forged.

I am not changing the subject

You just keep repeating yourself.

Finally why are you defending the members of Svoboda? This clearly shows the link between this man and Svoboda members but you want to deny it

I am not defending members of Svoboda; in fact, I am condemning them for their political beliefs and voiolent actions. The man we have been discussing probably is Svoboda. He probably is a thug. The issue now is why you are using a bogus NGO website as a source.

That is just a blatant lie and I am calling you on it, I stated that this particular nasty fellow was shooting at people escaping the building, there is a video of him shooting.

You have no evidence to back ANY of what you said, return fire...zilch forged documents.... nada quite laughable if anything, a member that attacks everyone else's credibility all the time and you seem to have the least out of everyone here.

a reply to: sosobad

That is just a blatant lie and I am calling you on it, I stated that this particular nasty fellow was shooting at people escaping the building, there is a video of him shooting.

You have linked to a very brief video showing him firing a gun. You claim that he is shooting people trying to escape the building. Please show us a video of the people he is allegedly shooting at, so that we can see whether they are "escaping" or firing upon him. You cannot. We have to take Moscow's word for it. If this video is so damning, why don't they post all the raw footage so we can see what really happened? Until then, we can only assume it has been edited to distort the truth.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

That is just a blatant lie and I am calling you on it, I stated that this particular nasty fellow was shooting at people escaping the building, there is a video of him shooting.

You have linked to a very brief video showing him firing a gun. You claim that he is shooting people trying to escape the building. Please show us a video of the people he is allegedly shooting at, so that we can see whether they are "escaping" or firing upon him. You cannot. We have to take Moscow's word for it. If this video is so damning, why don't they post all the raw footage so we can see what really happened? Until then, we can only assume it has been edited to distort the truth.

So you are taking the position of defending this man? Credibility going, going.....gone

a reply to: DJW001

Showing me two people that are bleeding is not as a result of military force and the police in the USA do a lot more than that ten times a day, does not even make the news.

You said "without critiquing Russia's use of force"

I called you out for talking daft so again I ask to see this use of force, it should be easy because tanks shooting buildings leave big chunks blown up, a mere machine gun will kill lots of people but you my freind cannot show me any of this "use of force" can you now