The Terrible Fear of Paying the Poor Too Much

a reply to: wayforward

I'm not sure why this nonsense thread continues to get any attention. Republicans never once have suggested poor people do not get paid more. They have suggested business owners have a right to spend their own money on their own business in the way they want. That is all. Its called your money, your choice. Its a concept Democrats will never understand despite the obvious simplicity and morality of it.

Fight over minimum wage hike comes to a head in the Senate[

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has spent months setting up a vote on a bill to raise the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, but the legislation is expected to meet its end in a matter of minutes Wednesday.

With staunch Republican opposition to the policy - not to mention the belief that Democrats are using the issue as an election-year gimmick - Reid won't be able to muster the GOP votes he would need to get the bill on the floor for debate.

This one is from LAST March:
House Republicans Unanimously Vote Down Minimum Wage Increase

House Republicans voted unanimously against raising the federal minimum wage Friday.

A proposal by Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.) to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 an hour over the next two years and increase the wage for tipped employees to 70 percent of the minimum wage was defeated, with every House Republican voting against the motion.

So, there you go.
There are dozens more, and this has been going on for years now. Do some homework.


And it isn't just "about getting to decide how to spend their money" - it's about the FACT that $240 BILLION a year goes OUT of the government (taxpayers' money) to those underpaid employees who can NOT survive on the current minimum wage.

It's also about the fact that CEOs are paid OBSCENE amounts of money, at the same time that those underpaid employees are on the dole. But, some people will just never get that.

a reply to: wayforward

See the post immediately above yours for someone else's description of the issue.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: wayforward

I'm not sure why this nonsense thread continues to get any attention. Republicans never once have suggested poor people do not get paid more. They have suggested business owners have a right to spend their own money on their own business in the way they want. That is all. Its called your money, your choice. Its a concept Democrats will never understand despite the obvious simplicity and morality of it.

Fight over minimum wage hike comes to a head in the Senate[

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has spent months setting up a vote on a bill to raise the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, but the legislation is expected to meet its end in a matter of minutes Wednesday.

With staunch Republican opposition to the policy - not to mention the belief that Democrats are using the issue as an election-year gimmick - Reid won't be able to muster the GOP votes he would need to get the bill on the floor for debate.

This one is from LAST March:
House Republicans Unanimously Vote Down Minimum Wage Increase

House Republicans voted unanimously against raising the federal minimum wage Friday.

A proposal by Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.) to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 an hour over the next two years and increase the wage for tipped employees to 70 percent of the minimum wage was defeated, with every House Republican voting against the motion.

So, there you go.
There are dozens more, and this has been going on for years now. Do some homework.


And it isn't just "about getting to decide how to spend their money" - it's about the FACT that $240 BILLION a year goes OUT of the government (taxpayers' money) to those underpaid employees who can NOT survive on the current minimum wage.

It's also about the fact that CEOs are paid OBSCENE amounts of money, at the same time that those underpaid employees are on the dole. But, some people will just never get that.

Allow me to bring up a post I made that got lost in the mass seen as we are on that particular topic.

The problem isnt so much that the minimum wage earners do not earn enough. The problem is that their wages are being subsidized by taxdollars in some way shape or form, so that they can rest up to be fit for work and have someplace to make themselves representable for work.

Therefore, by extension, taxdollars subsidize the profits of the companies that rely on low income workers. I assume most of these companies are publicly traded companies. Because of this fact, the average taxpayer is forced to hold stock in these companies so that he does not incur a loss.

How widespread is stockownership in America with regard to the companies that employ workers whom get extensive government support? Are those stocks held by a few? I was under the impression that stock ownership is widespread in America and that the fedora is all the rage among Americans. Is any of this still true? Do Americans get the taxdollars dumped on companies whom pay wages their workers can not support themselves with, get those taxdollars back in the form of corporate profit through the shares they hold?

a reply to: macman

Aside from you not addressing 90% of the statements, and queuing only on one or two points I make, only to transform them into something it is not, you clearly need to re-read a lot here.

Okay, Sergeant Friendly....
let's say I'm a dimwit.

Maybe you could create a post that is not confrontational, and reiterate those 90% of your points that I don't get.
Without being dismissive and insulting.

a reply to: Merinda

Therefore, by extension, taxdollars subsidize the profits of the companies that rely on low income workers. I assume most of these companies are publicly traded companies. Because of this fact, the average taxpayer is forced to hold stock in these companies so that he does not incur a loss.

That is correct, Merinda. I saw your other post.

I don't know how else to explain it than I already have.
Did I not specifically point out that it's about the government subsidizing the giant corporations by pulling up the slack so that the employees can survive? I'm pretty sure I did, several times. It's in effect an ongoing "bail-out." The govt is bailing out the workers AND bailing out the corporations. It's ridiculous.

Thanks for your help.

Prices might not go up, but store profitability will fall, and the amount of work put on the employees will raise. I worked in management at a retail store for 4 years in San Jose where the minimum wage jumped from $8 to $10 (now $10.15). Prices didn't go up, we simply just didn't hire new people as others had quit. The simplest example is to say I have $40/hr in payroll. I can employee 5 people at $8/hr or 4 people at $10/hr. The same amount of work is required, if not more, but now I have less people to do it. We each had to work harder because of this. Those employees that had been there for 8-10+ years and had worked there way up to $12/hr felt great making several dollars more an hour above minimum wage. Now they make just $2 above minimum wage and feel angry that their wage is now valued less.

Some will say that a higher paid worker is a happy and busy worker but now I work at a union store, where the average employee makes $13-$18/hr where other stores make $8-$10 depending on if they are in San Jose or not. In fact a couple of them make the same $/hr as I do as an assistant manager! They just work 32hrs and I work 50 to get paid more haha. Our store will never be #1 in the district for profit, and we always end up as the highest in payroll costs. We schedule the least amount of people as possible, and because of the union we cannot cross train them. So I as the assistant manager run around helping them out and we just cannot afford to hire any more people...customer service and speed of service are our #1 complaints and yet like I said, we cannot hire more staff...and because we will never be up there in profits, I will probably never earn a bonus as a manager...they should just close this store down because the union has destroyed it.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: macman

Aside from you not addressing 90% of the statements, and queuing only on one or two points I make, only to transform them into something it is not, you clearly need to re-read a lot here.

Okay, Sergeant Friendly....
let's say I'm a dimwit.

Maybe you could create a post that is not confrontational, and reiterate those 90% of your points that I don't get.
Without being dismissive and insulting.

So, I basically need to put into practice here, what you back in the real world?

Since you either willfully failed to read what I stated and address it or failed out of mistake, I therefore must provide you with it again?

Nope. You need to do your own work.

But, you are free to continue only cherry picking a few things to address and morph into something it isn't, and I will continue to respond and call you out on it.

a reply to: macman

But, you are free to continue only cherry picking a few things to address and morph into something it isn't, and I will continue to respond and call you out on it.

How very productive!! Quite conducive to a rational conversation!! Okay, I'll start. You are complaining that the government should butt out. I agree. You are also saying that it's the fault of the workers whose jobs have been out-sourced if they can now no longer find fitting employment. I disagree.

And even though I agreed with you that it should be voluntary better pay within the corporations, you're just determined to be hostile, antagonistic, and refuse to see any validity to the points I'm making.

Got it.

Thanks.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
How very productive!! Quite conducive to a rational conversation!! Okay, I'll start. You are complaining that the government should butt out. I agree.

Great, we have a start now.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
You are also saying that it's the fault of the workers whose jobs have been out-sourced if they can now no longer find fitting employment. I disagree.

It isn't the fault of the worker, per se, that they lost their job.
But, it isn't the fault of anyone else if they can't find work afterwards.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
And even though I agreed with you that it should be voluntary better pay within the corporations, you're just determined to be hostile, antagonistic, and refuse to see any validity to the points I'm making.

If it is voluntary by the company, I'm all for it.
If a company wants to pay the Janitor a million bucks, go right ahead.
I have no problem with that. It isn't my company. I don't get to decide.

My issue is when the Govt steps in to either force a company to pay X amount, or.....the Govt offsets someone's finances because the person has yet to progress within the or a career.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Got it.

Thanks.

No problem.

Wait, are you still hitting on me???

a reply to: macman

Wait, are you still hitting on me???

Yeah, I'm downright smitten.
*rolls eyes*

Hey, by the way, I have a job interview tomorrow!!! Wish me luck!
It pays $13/hour!!!!

I really hope I get it. It'd be perfect.

originally posted by: V22tech
It called common sense pal, you really think a burger flipping job should be a career? I never claimed it was some kind of act or bill it was an opinion, but if you think burger flipping should be a career than you are a fool.

I've never worked in a Mcdonalds or any similar chain, but I can tell you that here in the UK jobs such as "burger flipping" is never just burger flipping.

It's not like a guy is standing their 8 hrs a day going " Duhh hahaha, me fippy da burgers... Mmmm burgers". They will be cleaning, serving customers, interacting socially with said customers, stock rotation, operating a till, forwarding complaints to the on-duty supervisor etc etc.

Most people never do one thing as a career and very few jobs demand one action to be counted as your job role, it's foolish to even think that way.

P.S. I'm a barman on national minimal wage working for an international hotel franchise of individually owned hotels... I don't just pull pints either, my duties are endless and to be honest most people would take months to years to learn the skills I have in my line of work. Oh and a job is not a career, a career is the progress of learning and applying said knowledge to a job. Emphasis on progress and learning.

Back to reading the thread now...

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: macman

Wait, are you still hitting on me???

Yeah, I'm downright smitten.
*rolls eyes*

Hey, timely classics like Beauty and the Beast foretell this type of relationship all the time.



Of course we all know who would play the Beauty part.....


At least with my savagery, I hope you could at least smile with this.

a reply to: macman

Oh, I did smile.
Did you see my edit??

Yay for me!!!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Hey, by the way, I have a job interview tomorrow!!! Wish me luck!
It pays $13/hour!!!!

I really hope I get it. It'd be perfect.

Good luck.

I truly want the best for everyone. I just don't think it is at the expense of others.

But good luck again.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Hey, by the way, I have a job interview tomorrow!!! Wish me luck!
It pays $13/hour!!!!

I really hope I get it. It'd be perfect.

Good luck Buzzy, I hope you get it, I will be pulling for you.

Make sure you let them know you would be perfect for the position.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: macman

Wait, are you still hitting on me???

Yeah, I'm downright smitten.
*rolls eyes*

Hey, by the way, I have a job interview tomorrow!!! Wish me luck!
It pays $13/hour!!!!

I really hope I get it. It'd be perfect.

Good luck.

Thanks, all of you.

Let's hope this thread (nonsense or not) helps a little bit to calm the waters and build bridges between 'sides.'

We live in America - there's no good reason for people to be starving here.
It's up to us, not the government - they obviously haven't got a clue what it's like to live here like regular folks.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Thanks, all of you.

Let's hope this thread (nonsense or not) helps a little bit to calm the waters and build bridges between 'sides.'

We live in America - there's no good reason for people to be starving here.
It's up to us, not the government - they obviously haven't got a clue what it's like to live here like regular folks.

You seem nice enough. I don't know your skill set, but I know people who are hiring.

I see the argument of burger flippers don't deserve $10 an hour and such statements are usually made implying that it is only the burger flippers being paid such crappy wages well that simply isn't true.

With the current economy the way it is the min wage is effecting a great many people in a great many job fields.

Back before I joined the army many many years ago when I was 17 living in Florida as I needed to provide at the time for the family and waited for my pops to sign off on early enlistment ( I had my GED and my asvab in military was 119) I worked as a roofer. Min wage was just a little less than it is now however the roofing positions paid just a jlittle over min maybe a buck more. Because I had worked summers 2 years prior I was good at both tear off and laying roofs but I was still young.

They didn't know I had plans for joining the military or they may not have hired me but the point is that low min wage affected skilled workers as well I also had a fair amount of experience in framing but because they could they didn't,t pay much more than what someone at a burger joint.

Fast forward to today there is no nay I would work that backbreaking skin killing dehydrating job now but I do know some people that do. It is still the same where guys are only getting paid maybe a buck fifty more than minimum wage. That is because so many need work now before the crash those same jobs paid more.

The friends I have that do that sort of work are getting gov assistance to feed their family's . To say just get a better job means you have no clue as to how much a job like that takes out of you. The military was a cakewalk compared to the toll and exhaustion level I felt doing roofing. So for them to even have the energy to go find another job would require skipping out on work which may cost them a job.

So it is real easy to say get a better job but if you walked a mile in others shoes your tune would be different. The current min wage hurts a lot of people in a lot of fields and only makes it harder for anyone to raise themselves up.

As befor myself money isn't a worry I had military then further education and I was real good at saving money after my 2nd tour I got ahead in some contracting jobs and later sold a patent so this isn't about me wanting more as it doesn't affect my income. Hell I am essentially retired and collect some royalties but have plans to start dive tours down in Pannama was some medical issues are straitened out. The only reason I explaining my situation is because some attitudes here are bothering me with comparing the breaks and opertuntys they had and seem to think everyone had the same. I admit I had some luck in certain areas.

Just saying the current min wage is dumb and will only make this country and it's people weaker. From everything I have read on the subject discounting the obvious propaganda and misinformation that couldn't be confirmed there really isn't any good reason to raise the min up to $10 in all honesty the min should have kept up with inflation in the first place.

Think about this Costa Rica min wage is $3 for unskilled labor and they reevaluate twice a year but the cost of living is so low that you you could live off that. They also have manditory voting for the populace free healthcare, public transportation you can depend on 98% of its energy or more comes from renewable, and the people are rated as #1 or 2 for the happiest in the world etc,etc. yeah I like CR but they still have some problems.

The reason I use CR as an example is they are considered 3rd world we are considered 1st but in my opinion if things keep going the way they are going (not just this issue) our status will not remain as first world.


Apologies for the long windedness I am currently at the hospital recovering from a surgery this morning. If I wasn't on a iPad I would give links to further explain but as it is that will need to wait till I get home.

a reply to: AnonymousMoose

Uh why bit cut the profit margin? It's the cost if doing business. It's the unions fault for demanding fair wages? How bout its the store owners fault for taking a personal wage out of greed the jeopardizes the company. He didn't want to pay the cost if doing business and is sticking it to his slaves I'm mean employees.