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The Terrible Fear of Paying the Poor Too Much

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posted on May, 3 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
theres nothing alot of us can do but it never hurts to ask yourself and see what you can come up with. i'm an anarchist to the fullest so asking me what to do wouldn't be the smartest considering you have a family. but i'm new to ats wats this live thing your talking about? you can call in?

edit on 3-5-2014 by npo902 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You must not have seen my other post but as I said I am well aware of what Gates had to say. What he actually said not what you claim he said even if you are coupling that to some pseudo claims and fear mongering about vaccines.

Debunking Denialism

Defending science against the forces of irrationality.



So you view yourself as a scientific person and you feel that to oppose involuntary sterilization is an affront to scientific progress. Fine that tells me exactly where you are in this mix.
I missed this post before my reply. What you mean is you believe Gates to be truly the philanthropist who just wants to save people. Perhaps you do not think his vaccines are used for sterilization. Perhaps you think he does not view himself as one of the Elites. I disagree with your world view I guess. Again he is a member of the Club of Rome, so maybe in your mind only some of the Elites are bad guys with self-preservation in mind. Only people like the Koch bros. I'm guessing....
You are simply not looking at the data in front of you without certain bias. You are not seeing....
You may choose to believe that his goal is not that of a One World government with him as a major player....that's up to you.
www.reddit.com...

But now since this thread is about wage increases, a forced pay raise of a few bucks an hour is not going to put a dent in anyone's ability to rise above poverty. It is part of the Marxist plan to make everybody the same regardless of their skills. It is Marxist plain and simple. One just has to see that all of the context that people keep wanting to put it into is simply different ways of viewing the same old Marxist plan. All the "social engineering" and wishes in the public square to bring "economic justice" or make anyone making over 250,000 dollars a year "pay their fair share" is just more Marxism. It is not altruism, it is envy!
Communism is an invention of the International Bankers! Let's even put left/right political parties aside. Antony Sutton showed in his writing how the bankers and monied interests financed both the Nazis and the Bolsheviks. Like it or not, Nazism comes from the same authoritarian ideology as Communism. As long as the bankers can keep us convinced that if we engage in class warfare and demand to have wages increase and demand to have more taxes and allow the Fed to keep printing money to pay for whatever welfare or warfare programs they keep hawking in front of the people, they will keep us enslaved to their One World Government and globalist economy. I am sorry you do not or will not see it. I can only say it so many times in so many ways on this website.

For the record, I am not an "anti-vaccine denialist", and am anti whatever the Elites are using to depopulate us, whatever method they are using whether it be chemtrails, GMO, vaccines laced with sterilants and heavy metals like mercury, lfourides in the water, abortion, or economic and social justice designed to starve millions of people who would otherwise be able to sustain themselves with their own labor. The social and economic engineers feel that by forcing us all into condos and cramped apartments in big cities, they can control us better. This is the purpose of Agenda 21.

Incidentally, all this bantering about a "fear of paying too much" has nothing to do with reality. It is the same old Marxist posturing that the rich are not paying their fair share and it stems from a hatred of Capitalism and free enterprise. As one other poster has explained, there is a way of moving from a low paying job to a higher paying job when one has developed the skill set required to rise above burger flipping. A Master Chef will also make more than a short order cook at a pancake house or greasy spoon. The goal of Marxism though is to make everyone the same in order to stop "income inequality". That is all it is. Marx said, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This is the goal of Marxism, to stop inequality, even if it is ultimately unfair to those who work the hardest and have to pay the most. When one looks at this, it is not altruistic at all, but grossly unfair and stems from a need to control people in an authoritarian manner. It is social engineering at it's worst, and by the way it doesn't work, as we can see from the fall of the Soviet Communist empire.
tomremington.com...
Sorry this post had to be so lengthy but it's really not just for you but for anyone reading to comprehend what is going on with all this social engineering. Unions have also been a tool of Marxists for a long time in their efforts to equalize everyone and force business owners to pay more out. Obamacare is part of that deal too, as now business owners are forced to make decisions to raise prices to pay for outrageous insurance plans forced on the American public. It is all part of the Marxist plan. Now, more people have lost their insurance and businesses are cutting jobs and hours to accommodate this nonsense.
edit on 3-5-2014 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus




I missed this post before my reply. What you mean is you believe Gates to be truly the philanthropist who just wants to save people. Perhaps you do not think his vaccines are used for sterilization. Perhaps you think he does not view himself as one of the Elites. I disagree with your world view I guess.


You are correct I do not believe his vaccines are used for forced sterilization because there is no evidence to back such a claim. We are talking about a man that is donating his vast fortune to worthwhile causes and his family will inherit a few million at death while all the other billions go to charity. Oh how devious and evil he must be to you.




Again he is a member of the Club of Rome, so maybe in your mind only some of the Elites are bad guys with self-preservation in mind. Only people like the Koch bros. I'm guessing....


There you go again with attributing a position to me which I have not expressed this time about the Koch bros..

Instead of guessing you could ask that would be progress.




You are simply not looking at the data in front of you without certain bias. You are not seeing....
You may choose to believe that his goal is not that of a One World government with him as a major player....that's up to you.
www.reddit.com...


You don't seem to realize he stepped away from a position that had far more power than he could possibly hope to attain.

I will however read through the reddit thread but the quote mining that has been done there ....well let me just say that is usually a tell.





But now since this thread is about wage increases, a forced pay raise of a few bucks an hour is not going to put a dent in anyone's ability to rise above poverty.

Can you back that statement up?



It is part of the Marxist plan to make everybody the same regardless of their skills. It is Marxist plain and simple. One just has to see that all of the context that people keep wanting to put it into is simply different ways of viewing the same old Marxist plan.


Now that you have labeled it as Marxist whether true or false that is half the battle for you. You are not really discussing the merits but you have stuck a label to it. Awesome.



All the "social engineering" and wishes in the public square to bring "economic justice" or make anyone making over 250,000 dollars a year "pay their fair share" is just more Marxism. It is not altruism, it is envy!


Well I don't make over 250K (at one time I did for a few years) but I don't begrudge those who do and I am trying to figure out how that has anything to do with people earning minimum wage. Can you please explain how one has anything to do with the other?

Sorry but I am trying to understand if you have a point so far it seems like you are throwing out issues just to see if something sticks to maybe steer the conversation away from the intended topic.


edit on 3-5-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

oh Please! I really don't give a carp what his family is going to "inherit". More for the programmers is what you are saying, more for the World Government and less for the family and of course you are even making my point for me. What I do know is that you are unwilling to look at the evidence in front of you, at his involvement in the Club of Rome and the UN.
It's not just vaccines. It is education. Education has long become a tool of the programmers and engineers of society to indoctrinate and make children become cogs in the wheel of the State, to use John Dewey's own ideology and words. Dewey, as an educator, came right out of the Marxist philosophy brewing in Berlin, which ideology was transplanted to the US by way of Yale and the Russell Trust of Skull and Bones society. This is also documentable if you care to read Antony Sutton's books. Today, Gates is hawking the crazy Common Core Standards, which will give the controllers even more control through the crazy indoctrination going on with that. Just look at the crazy fuzzy math nonsense they are spouting from Common Core and you will know this is not science but a deliberate attempt to "dumb down the masses". Before you complain too much, Common Core is being used by the UN in other countries. It is to be a worldwide massive mass programming of the useless eaters to be drones of the One World Governmrent.
www.thenewamerican.com...



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

Throwing stuff out to see what sticks has zero to do with my views. I look at the bigger picture and it can sometimes be harder to see when winding through the long maze of intricate details.

Have you yet read my explanation of wage increase demands being part of Marxist agenda? It would be impossible to understand my point of view without that. Marxism is a scourge on this planet since he and Engels wrote the Communist Manifesto. The Progressive income tax is one of the main planks of communism and is already in place in the US, so whenever you hear Progressive shills talking about making people pay their fair share, it is nothing more than the Marxist plan to force everyone into their agenda. It is also class warfare, which is another main hallmark of Marxism, no matter how pretty they make it sound. Most of what is going on with Agenda 21 is also part of the Marxist communist plan for world takeover and has nothing to do with real science, though they do use scientific methods as part of their control technique.

Your quote:
"You don't seem to realize he stepped away from a position that had far more power than he could possibly hope to attain. "
He stepped away from his position in Microsoft to attain more control and power than he ever imagined. As I have said already, he is hawking Common Core Standards, and I have already stated elsewhere that he will gain financially from the software used in the high stakes testing which goes along with the Common Core program.
It is somewhat amusing however to see people engaging in the kind of defense of him that you are.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

Can I back up my statement that a few bucks will not make a dent in a person's ability to rise above poverty? Well, let's start with some real economic stuff. How do you expect to raise everyone's pay or even the pay of half the people in the country(women) without it having an impact on the inflationary cost of product? You tried to ridicule my position with your bit about being a denier of science, and yet you do not seem to understand a simple mechanic of economy, which is the cost of making a product and selling it to others at a price acceptable in the marketplace. People who believe in Big Government and the Nanny State have tried to tinker with this mechanism at least since FDR's New Deal with price floors and price ceilings and what not. Socialism introduces forced mechanisms into the free market economy in an effort to stop Capitalists from making money off those they employ. On the surface, it may seem altruistic. But it really tends to complicate things further. When you force regulations on business, you cause it to cease functioning on free market principles. Hence, if you force higher pay, you also force inflation. This situation we call "the wage/price spiral". To control inflation, the Fed will introduce measures to control that. They use a forced method to "slow down the economy". If they want to stimulate the economy, they will introduce other methods. One method the Fed uses to manipulate the economy is to raise or lower the interest rates on borrowing money.
If you really insist on bludgeoning me for being "unscientific", you are going to run into a problem.
I do have a science degree, a minor of which is in Business Management....



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

It is pretty sad you cant converse without labeling anything you disagree or using rhetoric like Marxist, progressive or calling others shills. You may even come up with some other labels but just so you know that kind of labeling doesn't sway my views at all if your goal is to influence my views. As I have told you before I examine each issue on its own merits there is no reason to turn them into puzzles and mazes.

So you have thrown a lot of stuff out there and it seems you have them all tied together at least in your mind.

Maybe my expectation of accusations being backed up by evidence is just to much for some. Like when someone claims that forced sterilizations are occurring through vaccines.

Well I do see a lot of accusations but what I do not see is evidence that backs up those accusations. Until there is evidence they will remain accusations and nothing more.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi





Well I don't make over 250K (at one time I did for a few years) but I don't begrudge those who do and I am trying to figure out how that has anything to do with people earning minimum wage.


Perhaps you personally do not begrudge those who earn more for whatever reason. But that does not change the fact that people currently running government are using this as class warfare and I have explained that is a mechanism of Marxism. Anyone who has read the communist manifesto or Marx or Lenin's writings can glean this. Minimum Wage is dictated by the current legislation and labor laws. The average worker does get an automatic wage rate hike but it is usually a few cents an hour. Like I said, this will not be enough to offset the current trend in inflation. What can cause inflation? The Fed printing money like Niagara Falls, for one thing. They are printing money around the clock to pay for whatever politicians want, for instance bailouts of bankers and industry(AIG and GM ring a bell?). Does the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (AKA Stimulus) ring a bell? Americans have no idea what crazy stuff that stimulus money has been and is being spent on. Every heard of the HITECH Act? More spending of stimulus money.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Grimpachi


If you really insist on bludgeoning me for being "unscientific", you are going to run into a problem.
I do have a science degree, a minor of which is in Business Management....



The pseudo comment was in reference to your claim about vaccines and forced sterilizations. Did you think it was in reference to something else you said or are you purposely trying to attribute my comment to other issues while being fully aware that they are not connected? The fact that you claim to have such degrees makes me think it is the later.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

So to sum up your post because you have read the communist manifesto and or Marx or Lenins writings and the fed is printing money uncontrollably and the stimulus and the HITECH act you feel that raising the minimum wage to the proposed $10.10 is out of the question?

Well that really clears up where you are coming from. Thanks.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 04:42 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

If that poor lady lost her job, you didn't make the case and thus failed both your employer and your employee. They both lost something of value due to your failure to be able to explain the circumstances and show the value of the employee to the employer.
Blaming a business tool---"a STUPID spread sheet"---is like saying the calculator is "DUMB" when it shows you have run your checking account into the red. It's a juvenile reaction to reality. That statement alone shows your level of maturity where business matters are concerned.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt



If that poor lady lost her job, you didn't make the case and thus failed both your employer and your employee. They both lost something of value due to your failure to be able to explain the circumstances and show the value of the employee to the employer.

Oh for crying out loud. She didn't lose her job. I didn't fail her.
I explained the circumstances repeatedly, and spent hours with HR and the "Rooms Executive" and her minions making the point.

Give it up. In fact, the company lost the 'contract' a few years later. And the hotel-chain in question has been taken to task often for firing people who wanted to form a union (which I had suggested to management, and it was afterward that I was put into the 'get rid of her' category. Found the file on my supervisor's desk...)

You have no idea what you're talking about. So

edit on 5/3/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

This is actually a comment about/regarding the following, posted by Third Eye:

a minor of which is in Business Management....

Well, there ya go. That explains it.

Humans are NOT 'resources' to "business managers." They are fodder, expendable, useless and irrelevant when it comes to the almighty "Profit Margin." Like so much used linen. Yeah, work them to death or disability - and then hire someone else to take their place.

Shameful.
That is all.
edit on 5/3/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: npo902

Yes, ATS Live is a radio show...and YES, you can call in!!!
not sure if you can join chat yet (being so new), but see the thread by nefermore about what's on the agenda tonight....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

By the way: WELCOME to ATS!!!

edit on 5/3/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: ImaFungi
Every American billionaire should have half of their money taken away, and be placed in the worst jail for a year. The Walmart owners walton family I think should all be hung in the town square. "In 2010, six members of the Walton family had the same net worth as either the bottom 28% or 41% of American families combined (depending on how it is counted)."

All problems of poverty stem from the ultra greed of the ultra rich. And that in the system, their behavior is rewarded and encouraged. The problems of society, namely 'poor people', will not go away or change, until the rich people are changed. Of course the rich people dont want this to happen. Of course the poor people want this to happen.


I must ask---from what planet do you hail?
Proposing that American billionaires have their money stolen by whom?
Who is it that should raid Oprah's bank accounts and put her in jail?
Why would you propose putting Bill Gates in jail?
Who is it that should then have the benefit of the years of their labors? People who work part time jobs sweeping floors? People who are living "in poverty" because they have poor decision-making skills and no talent to offer an employer?

So if you are making more than someone less well-paid believes you should make, that person below you on the socio-economic ladder should have the right to plunder your wealth? Walk into your house and take what they think you don't need?
Why stop with billionaires? Why not the millionaires as well? Would you be satisfied if everyone were in your boat?

Is this the way you truly want to be treated? Who gets to decide how much you are worth in this fantasy world of yours?

And you have the gall to speak of greed in other people while you display it so nakedly in posts such as this?



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 10:27 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

So to sum up your post because you have read the communist manifesto and or Marx or Lenins writings and the fed is printing money uncontrollably and the stimulus and the HITECH act you feel that raising the minimum wage to the proposed $10.10 is out of the question?

Well that really clears up where you are coming from. Thanks.



No, I'm sorry, the problem here is that you do not understand basic economics. I have explained how it works on a rudimentary level. It seems you do not understand the process of what happens when the Fed prints money. Perhaps if it comes from someone who lectures continually on the subject, Mr G Edward Griffin, who has a website and has written the book, "The Creature From Jekyll Island". He explains quite well what happens when the Fed prints fiat money. Other people here on this website have talked about it too I'm sure. Plenty of people are aware, just not the masses who voted a certain person into office twice. But I digress. Just because you do not understand the mechanism of how printing money out of thin air devalues the dollar and causes inflation, a hidden tax on all of us, does not mean it is not true. Your mistake is that when you do not understand something, you have to belittle and ridicule those who are trying to explain it in a way you should be able to understand.
I use the term Progressive because that is the term for people in either party who believe in the Marxist agenda, whether they call it that or not. Hillary herself goes by the term Progressive proudly, as "liberal" is just not extreme enough for her. So I am sorry it bothers you so much for me to use this term. That is what language is for, so that we can communicate ideas to each other, so if that word upsets you that much I am terribly sorry. What is behind Progressivism should upset you far more than just the word.
You in fact have used a classic redirect technique to turn this discussion away from the idea I put forth to your projection that I may not know what I am talking about. I am sorry if it bothers you so much that I have observed what is happening in the economy and in the political sphere and called it a name. But again, it is what language is for. You simply do not want to hear what I am saying.
That's ok, I am really not attached to your opinion of me or my message. What matters is I put it out there for whomever to see.
As far as calling people names or making insults, what have you been doing to me? You have asserted that I am not scientifically minded because I don't agree with your viewpoint on vaccines, or that I disagree with your opinion that Bill Gates does not have a motive. Perhaps the real reason you declared me to be a science denier is the classic argument that Climate Change theory proponents believe their non-science to be a settled science and one which has a consensus. The Delphi technique is one of manufacturing consensus where there is none. I've seen this technique first hand(the facilitator actually stated at the start they were trying to "build consensus") at the county planning meetings around here.
Now, I have not said that higher minimum wage is "out of the question", I have said that it won't fix anything. There is a difference, in case you missed it.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 10:34 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

They just skipped the one topic I was waiting to hear about. This thread. WTH why post your going to feature something when they do crap like that.

Screw it I am done listening to them.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

They did???
Wow. I wasn't paying attention.
Oh well!!!

I tried to listen.

NO! It's supposed to be the next topic!!! I think.

ETA: But, yeah, 'religiosity' is not just now invented......!!!!
Thanks to the host for acknowledging it.


edit on 5/3/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 10:46 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi


Here is an example of why raising the minimum wage won't work(besides what I have already posted)



Finally, the welfare state claws back raises that low-income families do receive. Low-income workers qualify for a host of means-tested federal benefits. These include food stamps, housing vouchers, Medicaid, and the Earned Income Tax Credit. As workers’ incomes rise they qualify for less and less aid—effectively an additional tax on their income. The Congressional Budget Office finds these reductions push many low-income workers’ marginal tax rates to nearly 100 percent.
A single parent working full time at the minimum wage makes $15,000 a year. A raise to $9 an hour would increase their pay almost $4,000—almost all of which they would then forfeit through reduced benefits. The structure of the welfare state makes it virtually impossible to fight poverty with a higher minimum wage.


blog.heritage.org...

This is the reason why I discussed the Progressive income tax as a Marxian tool. The minute your income goes up, your tax rate goes up as well, and a Progressive tax is even steeper than a regular tax, which is why some people are suggesting that a flat tax is more fair. In any case, the further you go up the economic ladder, the higher the tax rate is, and essentially you are penalized for your hard work.
The Super-Rich hide their money in tax shelters and trusts and Swiss bank accounts and therefore they are often fine with raising taxes on all the common people. Also they do not make their money from hourly rates, so a minimum wage is meaningless in the context of things, and the Elites will not pay for the carp they push off on us.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 10:52 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: diggindirt



If that poor lady lost her job, you didn't make the case and thus failed both your employer and your employee. They both lost something of value due to your failure to be able to explain the circumstances and show the value of the employee to the employer.

Oh for crying out loud. She didn't lose her job. I didn't fail her.
I explained the circumstances repeatedly, and spent hours with HR and the "Rooms Executive" and her minions making the point.

Give it up. In fact, the company lost the 'contract' a few years later. And the hotel-chain in question has been taken to task often for firing people who wanted to form a union (which I had suggested to management, and it was afterward that I was put into the 'get rid of her' category. Found the file on my supervisor's desk...)

You have no idea what you're talking about. So


You are absolutely correct. I have no idea what I'm talking about because you haven't the ability to explain. I feel for those poor people who had you as a supervisor if your only means of making points is tell long, involved stories with no point then saying you don't want to talk about it when your suggested solution entails breaking all moral and ethical guidelines that most civilized people accept.
You proposed withholding care from elderly patients in nursing homes to increase the wages of those caring for them. When I pointed out that your solution was immoral and unethical your reply was to "leave them out of it." I didn't bring them into to it, you did.
You tell a long, involved story about a pregnant lady and infer that she lost her job because of a corporate spread sheet and then come back to say she didn't lose her job. I didn't bring her into the discussion, you did but now you want to stop talking about it.
What you really want to do is whine because you can't make cogent arguments based on logic and take action based on civilized behavior.
You remind of a case I heard of recently. A young woman was hired to help care for a 90 year-old man who was terminally ill. She worked for a home health care agency and was paid their standard beginning wage of $11/hr to sit in his room from 10 pm until 6 am and watch him sleep. She performed that task ably.
A few weeks after she was hired the family noticed that the old fellow's garage had been cleared of all tools, lawnmower and garden tiller. A bit of investigation led them to the young woman's house where they found all the loot from the garage. When questioned as to why she thought she had the right to take his property her response was, "Well, duh, he's 90 years old and dying, he's not going to need it and we need it." Do I need to tell you that the grand jury didn't see it her way?



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