originally posted by: macman
Thanks for the detective work though.
Well good for him. I too work 2 full time jobs. Sleep about 4-5 hours a night. What is the point?
Because the excuse used for raising this, is to keep people off of welfare.
And when it is used as the biggest crutch to push it, it is an issue.
Yes, skill + need for skill does in fact drive wage.
Yes, but how on earth would all of them accept lower wages, and why would they? What-ifs are cute and all, but...........
Oh, I know exactly how Unions work. Seen it in action in the Telecom world for many years now.
Yeah, lazy and sleeping techs, refusing to do work during certain periods of the day, allowing themselves to be "specialized" in running a (2) wire
circuit from left to right for 25 years. Yep, I have seen it up close.
Nope. I wonder how it is that someone like me has been able to rise through the industry with the "union" there to help me.
If a company needs someone to perform a task, and the task is not common, they will offer higher pay. Has very little to do with the hive bargaining
That is a very Alinsky way of saying force of law.
No, Unions used force, blackmail and bribes.
It's not exactly detective work, since this site lists A) your # of posts and B) your date joined beside every post.
Do you still feel he deserves less than $9/hr for his hard work? It seems like everything has to be about you, when I specifically stated it was not
- several times.
One reason (of many) - not excuse - to promote a higher minimum wage is to reduce the number of people on welfare. You
keep crowing about how
you didn't get government help. Does raising the minimum wage count as government help? Hell no
. Frankly, as much as you complain about
government assistance, I'd think you would be for raising the minimum wage just to get rid of some of it.
I can't say I think of in-laws as relatives, since we're neither related by blood or raised by them, but maybe that's just me.
Biggest crutch...? Look, I'm not sure you really 'get' economic thought here - people with a lot of income don't spend most of it - they save and
invest. If you go down in income level, you spend increasingly more (as a percentage) of your income because you need to survive. The poorest of
people spend greater than
100% of their income
(due to assistance - from both charities and government). If you want to grow the economy, the absolute fastest way to do
so is to get the poorest of people more money. You know, like raising the minimum wage.
Again, no, skill + need does not drive wages. They contribute to bargaining power, which is what drives wages. I give an example immediately after
You agree with the voluntary wage cut scenario, because it'd be very hard not to. It's an illustration of the previous claim - that skill and need
do not set wages, but that they contribute to bargaining power - which actually sets wages. Remember, when a worker agrees to a wage - he has settled
(ie: bargained) for that wage. It's not a scary term.
If you've worked with unions, than you should well know that it isn't skill and need that set wages
, but bargaining power - which unions have
a lot of. Individuals of equal skill have little bargaining power against a monolithic corporation, while unions of individuals have quite a bit more
bargaining power against the same monolithic corporation.
You have more bargaining power
with a rare skill that is in need, it's fairly simple! If you were the only one with that skill, you would
have a monopoly on it. You could choose not use that skill at all, or even to use it with no compensation. However, acting as a monopoly on this
skill, you would probably maximize your profit (pay). You'd do this by bargaining
with companies that desperately need your unique skill,
until you got to the highest bidder.
It's an economic take on things that fits this discussion.
Even if unions used these things (I'd argue they mostly responded to such, heard of the
Battle of Blair Mountain
?), it's still a form of power; less civilized than
originally posted by: macman
Locally, Walmart pays $16hr for night stocking crews. Day shift cashier, they make $14hr. Sounds like you guys live in places that suck to begin with.
That's well above average Walmart pay
. Walmart itself cites an
average full-time (excluding part-time) pay of $12.83 per hour - and that includes all
full-time employees: store management, district
management, executives, etc. From this same article, Glassdoor calculates an average overall pay of $8.86 per hour.