Inmates strike in Alabama, declare prison is “running a slave empire”

a reply to: Aazadan
i worked in prisons for 15 years and
most (85% + )of the inmates were innocent.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: Aazadan
i worked in prisons for 15 years and
most (85% + )of the inmates were innocent.

Can you elaborate a bit more on that please? What prison was it, what did you do there and what especially leads you to say 85%+ inmates were innocent?

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: Aazadan
i worked in prisons for 15 years and
most (85% + )of the inmates were innocent.

How do you know this? Just being a regular employee in a prison wouldn't give you access to the evidence in the trials, and I doubt you had the time to research each one for yourself. Especially when the greatest indicator of a not guilty verdict (no one is innocent, we're all guilty of something) has nothing to do with what evidence is presented in a trial but rather what exculpatory evidence a prosecutor refuses to submit, and simply makes disappear.

a reply to: Bassago


I live in North Alabama and Limestone Prison runs a year round work farm growing every thing from Pumpkins to Tomatoes. An unbelievably huge operation. They also make model ships, wooden footballs, and many other things that are sold for profit. This has been going on for decades.

originally posted by: Echo3Foxtrot
Wait, when did paid work become slave labor? Plus, they're prisoners. Who cares?

Say you go to prison. Suppose the owner of the prison makes money from you going to prison, through your labor and through your stay. Does that still make you feel like you had a fair trial, or do you see potential motivations to railroad offenders through the system? And even if you got a fair trial? Can you really be sure the laws that got you into prison are there for any other reason than to get you into prison to begin with, lobbied for by the prison industrial complex?

You should look up the kids for Cash scandal.

a reply to: Aazadan

85% of the inmates, when I interviewed
them were not guilty.

a reply to: Bassago

I am a licensed addiction counselor and worked in a
diagnostic prison and as such interviewed and treated
thousands of convicts, inmates or prisoners.

all of the prisons had a chemical dependency
treatment center within them.

law abiding people make a common grave and
oftentimes fatal mistake in thinking that
criminals think like normal law abiding people think.



here is the big difference between law abiding people and criminals.

here it is "CRIMINALS SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS ILLEGALLY."

a reply to: Merinda
IT COSTS ABOUT $35,000.00 PER INMATE PER YEAR.

it is impossible to have an inmate work and even come
close to producing an individual income of $35,000.00 in one year.

so if the owners of the prison can find a way (Work) to
have the inmate turn some of their work into income
for the owner, then it will merely offset a small amount of the cost per year.

so what. parents have their children wash clothes, dishes,
mop floors so parents do not have to do it themselves or hire maid service.

a reply to: spirited75

Oh they found a way alright. It's called the Prison Industry Enhancement Certification Program and it's been doing quite well for itself actually.

In fact, things seem to be booming so well that in many places other businesses simply cannot compete with them in the market because they can pay their "Prison Workers" wages that are illegal for any other businesses.

According to the Office of Justice Programs website under the section for Prison Industry Enhancement Certification Program which is the link above these are their results.

Currently, 37 state and 4 county-based certified correctional industry programs operate in the United States, and these programs manage at least 175 business partnerships with private industry. As of September 30, 2005, PIECP generated more than $33 million for victims' programs, $21 million for inmate family support, $97.5 million for correctional institution room and board costs, and $46.6 million in state and federal taxes.

Those are some tasty numbers. Especially for the Correctional Institution which more than doubles the runner up.

Something else I find interesting is that it costs 35,000 dollars a year for just one prisoner while for us on the outside that same 35,000 is the Federal Poverty Level for a Family of 8. Seems kinda pricy to me for a bunch of dudes in a box who do all their own chores.

Poverty Levels

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: Merinda
IT COSTS ABOUT $35,000.00 PER INMATE PER YEAR.

it is impossible to have an inmate work and even come
close to producing an individual income of $35,000.00 in one year.

so if the owners of the prison can find a way (Work) to
have the inmate turn some of their work into income
for the owner, then it will merely offset a small amount of the cost per year.

so what. parents have their children wash clothes, dishes,
mop floors so parents do not have to do it themselves or hire maid service.

The inmate costs the STATE 35.000 Taxdollars per year. Those 35.000 Dollars go to a private prison, in the states where they are allowed. A 5 year stint therefore means almost 200.000 Dollars of revenue for the prison. On top comes the money the prison makes.

Why does the US have private prisons to begin with? Somebody saw the potential for profit in privatizing prisons and bought himself the power and influence to achieve this goal. A private prison system means you have to pay to keep the person imprisoned and then ON TOP, tax dollars need to be left over so the privately run prison turns a profit for the owner.

So from the point of view of the state and the taxpayer private prisons make ZERO sense, therefore the only rational explanation for their origin must be that a group of influential people must have lobbied for the privatization of the prison system, for the sole reason to profit from aforementioned privatization, profits which are your taxdollar and profits which can only be achieved by OVERPAYING for each single inmate, because if there aint no overpaying, then private prisons are a zero sum game and investors do not do zero sum games (if they can help it).

Further practices that help to increase profits are overcrowding of prisons, under staffing, creating an environment of violence and crime within the prison so that inmates can rack up more offenses on the inside resulting in a longer stay. I wouldnt be surprised if there were schemes where lifers bullied inmates and self defense is turned into assault.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: Aazadan
i worked in prisons for 15 years and
most (85% + )of the inmates were innocent.

Riiiiight. Because they told you so. Whatever. They had a trial and they lost. End of story.

originally posted by: Merinda

originally posted by: Echo3Foxtrot
Wait, when did paid work become slave labor? Plus, they're prisoners. Who cares?

Say you go to prison. Suppose the owner of the prison makes money from you going to prison, through your labor and through your stay. Does that still make you feel like you had a fair trial, or do you see potential motivations to railroad offenders through the system? And even if you got a fair trial? Can you really be sure the laws that got you into prison are there for any other reason than to get you into prison to begin with, lobbied for by the prison industrial complex?

You should look up the kids for Cash scandal.

Yes, THEY are out to get you by passing laws against rape and murder. Good call. Not everything is a conspiracy. Our body of laws is the result of MANY factors, most of which is public pressure for more and tougher laws.

a reply to: jaffo
If the only laws you could go to prison over were things like rape, murder, child molestation, I would have no problem with the prison system. They are not. You keep saying "rape and murder" as if that's the only way you can end up in prison. There should probably be less than 100 offenses that could send you to prison but I'm sure there are thousands.

Like I said earlier, if everything was on the up and up, why does our law enforcement cartel need to have LOBBYISTS bribing public officials to make what should be petty crimes into offenses that carry prison time?? Remember what I said about egging a car carrying a possibility of two years of prison? Do you not think that is just effing insane?

what about the "kids for cash" scandal out of Pennsylvania? Remember that one? Judges sending children to prison for minor infractions because they were paid to keep the juvenile detention centers full.

I wish all these prisoners wouldn't go on strike, they need to have a full blown uprising.

a reply to: jaffo

THEY are out to get you by passing laws against rape and murder. Good call. Not everything is a conspiracy. Our body of laws is the result of MANY factors, most of which is public pressure for more and tougher laws.

Suppose that's one way to look at it. Another is that many of our elected representatives don't know what they're doing and think their jobs are simply to pass new laws. After all when they pass new laws they can claim they're actually doing something. Look where that got us, we need all these laws like we need a kick in the head which is pretty much what it is.

WASHINGTON—For decades, the task of counting the total number of federal criminal laws has bedeviled lawyers, academics and government officials.

"You will have died and resurrected three times," and still be trying to figure out the answer, said Ronald Gainer, a retired Justice Department official. WSJ..

Yeah, tons of laws, more laws, that's the ticket. Got to keep those prisons full.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: Bassago

I am a licensed addiction counselor and worked in a
diagnostic prison and as such interviewed and treated
thousands of convicts, inmates or prisoners.

all of the prisons had a chemical dependency
treatment center within them.

law abiding people make a common grave and
oftentimes fatal mistake in thinking that
criminals think like normal law abiding people think.



here is the big difference between law abiding people and criminals.

here it is "CRIMINALS SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS ILLEGALLY."

Earlier I posted about how the system dehumanizes prisoners, that way so called 'law abiding citizens' jeer when they face atrocities in prison because they are not one of us, they are less than us. Your post makes an excellent point how even 'trained professionals' do the same thing.

a reply to: spirited75

So in a nutshell the 13th Amendment made the exception for prisoners to be slaves, or as it's worded involuntary servitude?

If the prisoners were murders, rapists, child molesters, thieves, and violent people I would have no problem with this.

The prison population in the US exploded as a result of the War on Drugs. That is a problem.

originally posted by: jaffo

originally posted by: Merinda

originally posted by: Echo3Foxtrot
Wait, when did paid work become slave labor? Plus, they're prisoners. Who cares?

Say you go to prison. Suppose the owner of the prison makes money from you going to prison, through your labor and through your stay. Does that still make you feel like you had a fair trial, or do you see potential motivations to railroad offenders through the system? And even if you got a fair trial? Can you really be sure the laws that got you into prison are there for any other reason than to get you into prison to begin with, lobbied for by the prison industrial complex?

You should look up the kids for Cash scandal.

Yes, THEY are out to get you by passing laws against rape and murder. Good call. Not everything is a conspiracy. Our body of laws is the result of MANY factors, most of which is public pressure for more and tougher laws.

What a funny guy. Sum up all the people whom are in prison for violent crimes and those who ain't, I bet you are going to be left with less than half the prison population.

originally posted by: Bundy
a reply to: jaffo
If the only laws you could go to prison over were things like rape, murder, child molestation, I would have no problem with the prison system. They are not. You keep saying "rape and murder" as if that's the only way you can end up in prison. There should probably be less than 100 offenses that could send you to prison but I'm sure there are thousands.

Like I said earlier, if everything was on the up and up, why does our law enforcement cartel need to have LOBBYISTS bribing public officials to make what should be petty crimes into offenses that carry prison time?? Remember what I said about egging a car carrying a possibility of two years of prison? Do you not think that is just effing insane?

what about the "kids for cash" scandal out of Pennsylvania? Remember that one? Judges sending children to prison for minor infractions because they were paid to keep the juvenile detention centers full.

I wish all these prisoners wouldn't go on strike, they need to have a full blown uprising.

The still unfolding adults for cash scandal is still going on.

Look the point is, maybe everything is 100% and by the books and the prison population would be the same if there wasnt a profit in it for those whom run the prison system. But with an incentive for profit you never know and because you can not know and will never know there should not be a profit in it.

Its like saying a judge gets a bonus for each conviction. People would be outraged, but its the same thing, alebeight further down the totem pole. In theory legislators do not profit from the prison system and therefore should not have any incentive to act solely with the goal in mind to increase prison population. Same goes for judges. In theory, but what does the practice look like? With strong incentives involved you never know and therefore a prison should be state run and not privatized and for profit.

a reply to: mOjOm

well you are from the ultra liberal state of Kalifornia.
probably have one of the highest per capita prison
inmate population in the united states.
fix your problems in Kalifornia and then come fix ours.

a reply to: jrod

JROD.
I am NOT making a jeer or a put down to inmates or criminals.

I merely stated a fact : Criminals solve their problems illegally.

Criminals do not think like non criminals.

ADD and ADHD do not think like normal people either.

a reply to: jrod

do you think that you can draw a clear line between
rapists, murders, and drug felonies?

Lots of rapes robberies murders burglaries
people and property crimes are committed
by criminals using drugs and alcohol.

i would take more time to explain
this but i can not find my crayons.