What the heck? Nazis? For crying out loud, look around here! More like hippies...if it were up to some people, we'd all be speaking German or Japanese.

Let me know when we brainwash a WHOLE nation (I know someone will say that we are brainwashed, but look at the election...more like half either way.) Let me know when we kill our own citizens because they are different. Let me know when we invade other countries for the sole purpose of more room for us. Let me know when we murder over SIX MILLION innocent people...

WAKE UP!

Moku, first, I have to ask a question. Wh yare there so many people with little writing ability and only the ability to piece quote and reply? I figured you'd know as you seem to be one of these people.


So, a medical journal has said that 100,000 Iraqi non-combatants have died at the hands of the American forces, and that is now Gospel. Do you want to know why I say 4,000 and stick to that number? Because more than one news source has used Iraqi hospitals to determine the number of Iraqi dead and the cause of death. Because it is more than one news source, the lower number has more credibility. I went with a higher number of teh several to give the benfit of the doubt to the opposing team, which oddly, isn't the true enemy, but the weak-kneed liberals who hate that which allows them to live to hate it.

Moku, I am aware that the insurgents are not only foreigners, but it is made up of a large percentage of foreigners and Iraqi people bouncing around the country killing innocents and military alike in order to create chaos and not allow the Iraqi people a stable environment and a government of their own. Do you realize that they are harming their own because the preferred their personal benefits of Hussein's regime?

Really, you piece of lying human excrement; civilian neighborhoods were the primary target of the U.S. Airforce? You'd better back that up with a source as that is a very serious charge, being they are animals and all. I'll wait for you to round up the source of that charge, as there are consequences to such an unsubstantiated charge.

Moku, I am aware that you are mentally challenged and very depraved, understanding little of truth and lie, and I am quite sure you beleve that words are nothing more than something for you to twist and wrp for your own need, but here's something for you to chew on: People aren't as dumb as you, and most aren't as vile as you. My knowledge of the atrocities commited by Turkey didn't come recently, I've known about it since I started at Sikorsky and talked to people who did aircraft work over there. Shoving people out of helicopters on a daily basis sounds a bit sick to me. That is only part of the insane acts, but that particular one strikes me as very offensive. However, you, being what you are, tried to twist what I said, and that was that one should be discerning when it comes to what information is given by what source. Elsewise one will either be fooled, or worse, one will intentionally prefer a lie over the truth - like you. You have them - lies, that is. For example, calling me a war-monger. I've served in the military, you little prick, and I have had the taste of a few bullets launched my way, you little evil coward, and I can tell you, I am no war monger. I don't want anyone to have to experience war, you stupid little puke. However, you spineless smelly turd, I don't like the thoughts of several thousand of my citizenfry getting blown up again, you frightfully odiferous cretin, so I realize that when someone declares war on you, you must kill or die.

Now, Moku, did you enjoy the insults? Do you think that it is the same as light hearted fun with a person's screen name that indicates mental disease? Personally, I don't, but the above string of names is an illustration of the difference, and the reason why you shouldn't do it, either.

Now, you claimed that the U.S. Air Force is a bunch of "animals", and that they intentionally targeted civilian neighborhoods. You say this, not because they were aiming with pinpoint smart bombs to destroy hidden targets but to say they were trying to gleefully kill as many noncombatants as possible.
Now, you really should trot off and find that information and post it here on this thread. Do it soon, now, we really want to see the information as that is a very, very serious charge.

By the way, Moku, I've got to go and take care of some things in the real world, but I shall be back in a while to see if you've posted the reason you made such a drastic charge.

DGT, I understand the numbers, that there are quotes that are very high, but how did these people die? That is why I prefered the numbers of various news sources who used hospital infromation to determine how a person died. I am not denying that 100,000 is being waved around, I am very, very suspicious of that number.

The Air Force intentionally bombing civilian neighborhoods, this contrary to what the military has done to hold done civilian casualties at teh price of our own troops' health, this is the info I want. Else wise, I fear this is nothing but posting false information on the board, and we all know that is a non-no. And, no, posting such an assertion and then using Rense.com as a source doesn't vut it!

The US as bad as Hitler??? That is the stupidest thing i have every heard.
Do you even know what genocide is? It's when you kill millions of people. The US has done nothing except defend themselves against a dictator making nuclear weapons. Yes, thats right, they were and still are making nuclear weapons in my opinion. It's just a matter of finding them. Whoever posted this needs to get his facts straight.

Well the problem with the bombs that the US used in Afghanistan and in Iraq to do strikes not always are very "smart" after all.

But then again the civilian "casualties" are not counted.

TC, you're entitled to your opinion, i wanted to make you aware that every website that comes up on Google states the same thing. Its not because of Jeffrense.com that i think this.
Perhaps Google is waaay over on the left and has its own agenda..eh?

Originally posted by dgtempe
TC, you're entitled to your opinion, i wanted to make you aware that every website that comes up on Google states the same thing. Its not because of Jeffrense.com that i think this.
Perhaps Google is waaay over on the left and has its own agenda..eh?

Dgtempe - here's a little friendly advice for you. Before you start using Google to support an opinion you should go read up on how Google works. People like you an I can submit URL's into Google then it becomes part of the search results you get when doing a search. All those search results were created by people who wanted them there - get it. My analogy is this - if google were a ballot box you or a group of people could stuff that box with as many votes as they wanted too. Thus you should never use it as a gage for credibility to any subject, it's just a source of information that may or may not be good. Now, I'm not saying that's the case for this subject.

I never said Google was the Internets bible. All i pointed out was that the most popular search engines turn up the same amount of deaths in Iraq.
I know who and why those links are there Thanks just the same.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Such a diatribe is completely unworthy of comment and to keep from being docked points I will end this sentence with a yawn.

I guess I will refrain from comments also then...

Thing is some believe this stuff.

While the numbers do not add up to Hitler's total, a more worrying development is the de-humanisation of the people we are fighting. I cannot count the number of posts I have seen on this board advocating the killing of muslims or posts describing them as animals.

One of the building blocks for Hitler's pogrom against the Jews was his de-humanisation of them. This is what I see happening now in the US with regards to muslims.

That's what I see, flame away.

Just a couple of quotes from the Johns Hopkins site. For those no longer keeping score, the folks who actually did the study were from Johns Hopkins.

However, the researchers stressed that they found no evidence of improper conduct by the Coalition soldiers.

And the part that should raise concern with any objective observer....

Our findings need to be independently verified with a larger sample group.

To repeat, the study found NO evidence of improper conduct, and ADMITS it needs to be 'verified'. When a researcher uses that word, it is understood that he or she knows that either the sample was too small, thus leaving a lot of room for false conclusions, or that the survey processes were sufficently inaccurate to allow the same thing.

Let's see another source before we sell our soul to this study.

BTW, every link I saw on Google that reported the 100,000 figure referenced this ONE report. When has it ever been good common sense to base your belief on ONE anything?

it appears to me that i live in the most uneducated planet in the galaxy

in Gulf War 2,
USA lost = 1200 to 1500 total people *estimates
Iraq lost = 15000 *lower estimates* to 100,000 *highest estimates


OH BUT NO ONE REALIZED THAT
in WW2
****LOWER ESTIMATES
40 MILLION DIED
****HIGHER ESTIMATES
60 MILLION DIED

Now, Tell me , HOW THE HECK can someone say that
100,000 dead equals 60 million dead?

THERES A HUGE DIFFERANCE

60 million people = 600times the HIGHEST iraqi casualty estimates

for Every Person to die in Gulf war 2
anywhere from 600 to 10,000
died in ww2

thats anywhere from 600 to 10,000 times a larger number

Read more , opinionate less

and Godwins Law is pure genious and applies directly to this thread

arguement thrown out because of obvious insanity of those arguing

Originally posted by Chris McGee


One of the building blocks for Hitler's pogrom against the Jews was his de-humanisation of them. This is what I see happening now in the US with regards to Muslims.

That's what I see, flame away.

I agree with you, the present administration has done a very good job of making Americans believe that the middle east population is not as human as the Christian nations of the west because they don't follow the same God they are called terrorist and american haters.

When you make your nation agree with a war selling the idea that one particular religious view is better than another one is wrong and misguiding.

OH BUT NO ONE REALIZED THAT
in WW2
****LOWER ESTIMATES
40 MILLION DIED
****HIGHER ESTIMATES
60 MILLION DIED

You forgot to tell us how long did WWII last?
And how many countries does your count involve?

[edit on 27-11-2004 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by dgtempe

You forgot to tell us how long did WWII last?
And how many countries does your count involve?

[edit on 27-11-2004 by dgtempe]

Exactly the Iraqi war is not even two years yet and the casualties that we know are not even accurate because US is not even taking a count of the deaths, so that will tell any person that the deaths are higher than predicted.

Originally posted by marg6043

Exactly the Iraqi war is not even two years yet and the casualties that we know are not even accurate because US is not even taking a count of the deaths, so that will tell any person that the deaths are higher than predicted.

Do you have a reference or link to a site with casualty predictions? I would like to see what they were. Thanks.