I think that Mehmet Elkatmis needs a history lesson. Maybe he can begin with the chapter about his own nation's genocide in the last 100 years.


EDIT: forgot what millennium this is.

[edit on 27-11-2004 by cavscout]

Such a diatribe is completely unworthy of comment and to keep from being docked points I will end this sentence with a yawn.

The man who wrote that article is a fool, trying to play off emotion of uneducated people. In hopes of getting people angry due to the fact they have not payed attention to the truth.
-If the United States was to commit genocide as he put it we would have lost very few troops. The reason we are losing our soldiers are due to the fact we are playing by the rules of civilized warfare only attacking direct threats instead of anyone we see. It would be a lot easier to just roll through the cities shooting on anyone we came across.
-That marine who shot in the mosque was protecting himself and his squad, a moving body in iraq no matter how injured might be has proven to be very deadly. If he was just trying to commit genocide he would have just entered the room spraying bullets instead of checking the enviroment in proper military fashion.

Genocide is a crime of hatred, There are many genocides going on in the world today, fortunately none are being committed by the United States.

Well let me tell you that the Bush administration not only has committed a genocide in Iraq (and other palces), it behaved like Hitler in Guantanamo (and other palces), but it is also after building the new Roman empire. Also the bad thing is that most of the Americans think just like Mr. Bush!

Mehmet Elkatmis isn't only refering to the genocide in Iraq. He is refering to the entire history of the United States which has murdered, raped, enslaved, and kidnapped hundreds of millions of people.

With that in mind, The United States is the murderer of people.

Strangly I find myself coming to the defence of the U.S. on this occasion.
What fool likened America in Iraq to the nazi regime? get a grip! I would hope if the U.S ever did anything like that, the rest of the world would bomb them into oblivion!

BUT THEY HAVENT !!!!!

Ive never heard a more over the top lunatic analogy! Shame on you.

The very last paragraph of the article in question:

"Underlying Turkish criticism of U.S. policy in Iraq is the fear that Kurds in the north of the country may use the general turmoil as an
excuse to seek independence from Baghdad, a move which could reignite separatism among Turkey's own Kurds."

And there we have a very nice explanation for all that big talk.

As for the comparison with Hitler... well, not a good one.

But there are certain things going on in Iraq, starting with the very reason why USA went to war there, that make people think.
Obviously, Bush goal wasn't the freedom of Iraqi people. If that had been the primary objective, the plan, the way the war was fought, would be much different. Also, in real world, wars NEVER start because of such altruistic goals. Wars are fought for money, power, oil, strategic influence, personal revenge. Several of those are the reason for Gulf War 2.

To generals playing these war games, civilians who die are not human beings, they are acceptable collateral damage.

If we compare the wars of the past with the ones we fight today, if we compare how normal everyday people perceive it, one thing is very evident: although we still kill eachother every day, in this day and age human life is valued a lot more then it was in the past. A lot more people are aware of how horrible an act of killing another human being is. We value life more, hence why the outrage at all the dead Iraqi civilians is so big. We see the injustice, the brutality of that act, even though we fight against insurgents. Maybe there is still hope for humanity.

Sorry, for the slightly incoherent thoughts, I had a few drinks

This article should be for us an occasion to think about the relationships between the USA and the Nazis. After WW2, many Nazis were welcomed in the US and hailed as bringers of science and wisdom. Without the Nazis, no A-Bomb. Without the Nazis, no Spaceflight. Without the Nazis, no anti-bolchevist struggle. Without the Nazis, no USA.

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi

This article should be for us an occasion to think about the relationships between the USA and the Nazis. After WW2, many Nazis were welcomed in the US and hailed as bringers of science and wisdom. Without the Nazis, no A-Bomb. Without the Nazis, no Spaceflight. Without the Nazis, no anti-bolchevist struggle. Without the Nazis, no USA.

And, how high does YOUR grass grow? (Wow, I could beat that up all day, but I've got somewhere to be. See you in about 6 hours my friend! Be ready!)

Well yeah we are kinda behaving like the nazi's in that we are being the aggressor in a war...and guess what, war is ugly. If there are 100,000 dead civilians in Iraq I would be suprised. If we have used a "poison gas" I would be suprised...however if we used some kind of sleeping gas or something I would believe that.

That fire bomb is a nasty weapon and so is the MOAB ... I think that the U.N should ban the "use" of such weapons.

But i would put estimates BELOW 20,000 ... thats just a guess.

Anti war people believe that it is ok to lie in order to prevent a war...the only problem with that is People that Want War are willing to do far worse than just lie in order to go to war.

Originally posted by HISTER
That fire bomb is a nasty weapon and so is the MOAB ... I think that the U.N should ban the "use" of such weapons.

Firebombs and fuel-air bombs are already banned under the geneva conventions.

I think saying that the U.S. has surpassed Hitler in Iraq is unfair. The Nazi regime not only murdered Jews - it built machines to dispose of them more efficiently, like the gas chambers and the crematory ovens. It also commissioned the infamous Dr. Mengele to experiment - most often painfully - on Jewish subjects. I think that the horror and inhumanity of all that has yet to be matched. I hope it never is.

However... the U.S. is indeed going about the occupation of Iraq in a clumsy and heavy-handed way. The mission to topple Saddam has turned into a mission to "build" Iraq - and the U.S. is ignoring the fact that some Iraqis may genuinely be pissed off at being occupied by a foreign force. But the Bush administration has a "shoot first and discuss later" and "diplomacy is for wimps" attitude. And let's not forget the "We don't have to understand terrorists - we just have to kill them." And as long as that doesn't change - as long as the U.S. administration doesn't realize that not all terrorists become terrorists for the same reasons - it's condemned to kill more and more Muslims.

As for the International Criminal Court... well, if the U.S. wants immunity, then it can't deny any other country immunity - unless there's a double standard I don't know about.

How about those "daisy" or cluster bombs they used in afghanistan?

Originally posted by instar
How about those "daisy" or cluster bombs they used in afghanistan?

I agree. The inhumane and war criminal fashion in which the US uses forbidden weapons to bomb civilian neighborhoods and infrastructure do indeed qualify as equals as the atrocities of WW2.

Psychosis, you picked the perfect name, friend. Genocide is NOT when terrorists and murderers come pouring into Iraq to kill our soldiers and disrupt the Iraqi life and in turn, our troops kill them. Your attempted point is nothing but a perverted stretch of any truth.
So is your regurgitation of the lie that 100,000 Iraqi non-combatants have been killed in this war. The trurth is closer to 4,000. While that is certainly more than anyone would like to see, that is still much lower than the ridiculous number shrilly screamed out by those unable to think things through. CAn you imagine the stuctural damage had we been so careless as to kill 100,000 non-combatants? No, obviously you can't.

Yes, we find it very easy to dismiss as rubbish that which weak-kneed, spineless liberals throw in our faces, not to mention the garbage by Mr. Elkatmis. He's the head of the Human Rights commision? Do you have any idea how the Turkish government deal with the Kurds? Do you want to know about human atrocities that are going on and have been going on for a long, long time? You need to speak to some friends of mine who have spent time in Turkey. After talking to them, you wouldn't listen to anti-U.S. propaganda again. Or maybe you would, but you'd know you were buying into what is more than likely a lie.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Psychosis, you picked the perfect name, friend. Genocide is NOT when terrorists and murderers come pouring into Iraq to kill our soldiers and disrupt the Iraqi life and in turn, our troops kill them. Your attempted point is nothing but a perverted stretch of any truth.

No my friend you are stretching the tuth and insulting this fellow poster. The iraqi resistance is not made up of foreigners. Stop believing Bush lies.

So is your regurgitation of the lie that 100,000 Iraqi non-combatants have been killed in this war. The trurth is closer to 4,000.

No, poor idiot. The figure 100.000 is not a 'lie', but scientific truth, published by a world's leading medical journal.

While that is certainly more than anyone would like to see, that is still much lower than the ridiculous number shrilly screamed out by those unable to think things through. CAn you imagine the stuctural damage had we been so careless as to kill 100,000 non-combatants? No, obviously you can't.

You seem to watch Fox News. I pray for your sick soul. Civilian neighborhoods were among the top priority targets for the animals of the US Air Force.

Yes, we find it very easy to dismiss as rubbish that which weak-kneed, spineless liberals throw in our faces, not to mention the garbage by Mr. Elkatmis. He's the head of the Human Rights commision? Do you have any idea how the Turkish government deal with the Kurds?

Ahhh, the Kurds, a newfound friend for the Bush psychogarbagists, since Turkey told them to bugger off. Remember that expression 'the poor Kurds' the human rights loving republicans will not fail from using it over and over and over and over.

Do you want to know about human atrocities that are going on and have been going on for a long, long time?

Honestly, Thomas Crowne, since when have you become a fiery advocate of human rights ? What happened to you my little warmongerer ?

You need to speak to some friends of mine who have spent time in Turkey. After talking to them, you wouldn't listen to anti-U.S. propaganda again. Or maybe you would, but you'd know you were buying into what is more than likely a lie.

Nobody listen to your Nazi friends.