Armed Fed Agents and Snipers in Nevada Battle with Local Rancher

Iscool

buster2010

imitator
Wow the feds are on a grave robbing spree, just recently antiques and art from an old man.... now it's the old farmer cattle and land!!!

The gold in fort knox must be gone!!!

edit on 8-4-2014 by imitator because: (no reason given)

The old man contacted the FBI and asked them to return the collection and this old man didn't pay his grazing fees. Why should this man be able to profit from land that belongs to the people?

Again, International oil producers profit from crude oil and water freely given to them...Why is this not an issue??? Why pick on a rancher whose cattle eat sparse grass that would benefit no one else???

Wrong it is not given to them freely. The oil companies lease the land they drill on.

freakjive
Right...so they're doing this to "protect the endangered tortoise"...

Federal funds for a Nevada-based desert tortoise conservation center are running dry and wildlife officials plan to close the facility and euthanize hundreds of tortoises that were once classified as “endangered” and are currently considered “threatened.”

Government plans to euthanize hundreds of threatened desert tortoises it was supposed to protect

They couldn't, you know, let them go and give them the opportunity to live in their own.

Nah, that'd make a little too much sense.


Regarding the alleged tortoise euthanasia:

All healthy tortoises at the Center will be relocated to sites that will support the recovery of the species. Healthy tortoises will not be euthanized.

source

Thank you for reminding me to dig deeper before spouting nonsense.

buster2010

seeker1963

buster2010

imitator
Wow the feds are on a grave robbing spree, just recently antiques and art from an old man.... now it's the old farmer cattle and land!!!

The gold in fort knox must be gone!!!

edit on 8-4-2014 by imitator because: (no reason given)

The old man contacted the FBI and asked them to return the collection and this old man didn't pay his grazing fees. Why should this man be able to profit from land that belongs to the people?

While I agree with the FBI and the old man and his antiquities thing..................

ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME? When you said, "that land belongs to the people."?????????

Tell that to anyone whom has had their property stolen thru "emanate domain"!!!!

Get a GD grip man! Nothing belongs to the people anymore unless they pay the Feds to possess it!

edit on 8-4-2014 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)

This land is public land he was supposed to pay to allow his cattle to feed on it and he stopped paying. So there is no emanate domain crap going on here. For emanate domain to happen the guy would have had to own the land but he didn't now did he? So you need to get a grip on reality.

Nobody gives a crap about that land. Nobody cares about those turtles. They just want to tax that dude ... and he doesn't wanna pay.

reply to post by thesaneone


So the government sends in armed men against this one man and his family for having cattle eat grass, on the same land used by his family for generations? The government employees, whom I would assume are Americans, are going to shoot and kill a fellow human being to save a tortoise from his cattle? That is the definition of insanity. How could anyone in their right mind justify that? Here comes another Waco or Ruby Ridge. One of these days people will say enough is enough. Our government is out of control with blood lust. Make no mistake, there are trigger happy government thugs aching to pull a trigger.

His family used the land not owned it. If he doesn't have proof of ownership of the land he is just kind of boostering off the land. He should just be smart and deal with it the right way $$$$$$ and quit trying to face off with the Government. He won't win.

reply to post by govmule


Did you read the article?

Typical .. dont pay uncle scam his extortion money get a visit from the enforcers ..
Amazing how many here that claim they support freedom turn around and support state sponsored extortion ..

So the guy doesn't own the land and stopped paying his grazing permit fees in 1998. The county then bought out his permit and banned grazing on the land to protect an endangered species.

Good ole Glenn Beck...

reply to post by trig_grl


This perfectly illustrates the lunacy and ignorance of this failing experiment.

They have spent 3 million dollars of tax payers money paying agents to watch this guys house and cattle and occasionally snatch one because he isnt paying a tax that allows his cattle to eat GRASS on public land. On top of tgat they arrested and roughed up his son for filming them outside of a designated first amendment area.

Their son, Dave, was arrested and allegedly roughed up Sunday for filming federal agents while outside an area designated for First Amendment activity on the restricted property. He was held overnight.

The government wants your money. Thats why you are here.

Land sitting there not being used is wasted land. The fact that there is a desert tortoise there is irrelevant, they both are a foraging grazing animal. In fact, the farmer probably is helping the cultivation there in the area by pumping water into the area so all species can thrive. This stand off just does not make any damn sense. Does anyone really give to squirts of piss about this land out in the middle of the desert besides the farmer? Just think of it as a farmer subsidy and leave the man in peace for christs sakes. Lets not forget that what his farm provides is also our source of food and survival. I guess when you go hungry you can eat a desert tortoise.

Is this one of the areas that the city of Las Vegas wants to pump water from.

www.theguardian.com...

If it is i can understand why the BLM wants to run this rancher out.

Its all about who will pay the most money. in this case the BLM could lease the land for both water and cattle.

Many ranchers in southern Nevada are against the theft of water by Las Vegas.

Going after one many be a scare tactic against the other ranchers.

GreenMtnBoys
Haven't read a lick about this story or this rancher but as someone who knows the cattle and ranching business very well….you don't need 600K + acres to raise cattle. Quite the contrary. You can 100% rotationally graze and grass feed hundreds of head of cattle on as little as 100 acres. I don't care if this land has been in his family forever. Things change, this is the 21st century not the 1800s. Not one single human being deserves to "own" more than 1000 acres or whatever in this day and age. Farmer, rancher, Ted Turner whoever. That's complete and utter BS. We have plenty of Americans that would love to own property, that should own property, and lots of young people who would love to get into the ranching/farming business. I mean it's unfathomable that in America Ted Turner can own millions of acres of land. Fk that! EVERY AMERICAN BORN CITIZEN should have the opportunity to own land in this country. There should be plenty to go around.

That being said I'm not about to let the government go in and seize private property. But I feel no sympathy for a farmer that needs thousands of acres to graze cattle. Screw him! He probably already gets plenty of government subsidies. And the facts of this story aren't even clear.

edit on 8-4-2014 by GreenMtnBoys because: mistake

Not sure where your from but the land in question is very sparse desert and you can NOT graze "hundreds of head" on 100 acres.

I know in parts of the country what you said is true but out west in the desert it is a different situation.

While it's true he quit paying his grazing fee's for whatever reason (unclear to me) and is wrong in that regard, That land is next to worthless for any use whatsoever. It hurts nothing to let ranchers graze cattle on the land to get some use out of it.

JonButtonIII
reply to post by thesaneone

 

Cheating the taxpayers out of what, exactly? Do you have a vested interest in the grass his cattle ate?

You know that land isn't available for public use, right? The government just stole it out from under him then will likely decide to flip it for profit. In the world I live in, that's called theft.

Protip: I'd take a long hard look at your stance on this issue. Otherwise, when the government decides to attack YOUR property rights under Agenda21 and decides to "liberate" your home out from under you, there won't be anyone left around to stand up for you.

edit on 8-4-2014 by JonButtonIII because: (no reason given)

I would like to see some facts behind your claims, facts for this specific area of land.

It pisses me off immensely to see this happening in the state my heart resides.

When I came to the United States Nevada is where I grew up. Much of my libertarian idealism was fostered by the culture of Nevada.

Over the last decade or so the bleedoff from California and the incursion by the federal government has begun turning my once libertarian state into another west coast authoritarian stronghold.

And now this escalation. I've known of this man's struggle with the feds for a long time now. There was never a need in the past for such an escalation in force and there isn't one now.

These assholes bring out the soldier in me in ways I don't like.

reply to post by GreenMtnBoys


First off, His cattle ranching should be grandfathered in considering the amount of time his family has been at it in the location in question. Second, If the tortoise species there were in such danger from the ranching habits it would have gone instinct from the ranching habits of the past couple of hundred years.

Copious amounts of Big Brother Bravo Sierra being deployed.

That is all.

For what ?

FOR WHAT ?

A GD turtle.

The land was finally declared off-limits for cattle in 1998 and became a designated habitat for the federally protected desert tortoise.

www.theblaze.com... -reached-breaking-point/

Cattle RANCHER !

Meanwhile get ready to pay HIGHER BEEF PRICES !

www.bloomberg.com...

www.npr.org...

Bunch of fascists.

HanzHenry

seeker1963
reply to post by trig_grl

 

I have been following this as closely as I can! (Considering not a peep from the MSM) What is really disturbing is that they have set up a so called "Free Speech Zone" to corral anyone whom is showing up to defend this rancher!

free speech zone? shouldn't that zone be 'from sea to shining sea'?

this is why BADGES are REDCOATS... ALL OF THEM.

Not one single badge wearer NATIONWIDE has the Integrity or Honor to "put their life on the line" to uphold the OATH?

Pension/Paycheck mean more to them ALL. they are nothing but the BIGGEST ENEMY to the once Free Republic.

oh, for the love of christ, not this crap again...

i'm sure there are plenty of currently active police officers on this very forum, who would disagree with your idiotic sentiments....

not ALL police are bastards....though, i will agree that there are far too many bastards who are police...

imitator
Wow the feds are on a grave robbing spree, just recently antiques and art from an old man.... now it's the old farmer cattle and land!!!

The gold in fort knox must be gone!!!

edit on 8-4-2014 by imitator because: (no reason given)

really? they stole from an old man?

where?

reply to post by thesaneone

This has nothing to do with the tortoise.
The whole mess began in 1993 when he decided he wasn't going to pay the grazing fee anymore

reply to post by Olivine

There is quite a bit of misinformation being thrown about in this thread.
Mr. Bundy has not had land "taken" from him. The range land in question has always been federal land; eminent domain was not used.

reply to post by buster2010

This land is public land he was supposed to pay to allow his cattle to feed on it and he stopped paying. So there is no emanate domain crap going on here.

Thank God there are still a few people here on ATS that can actually read and think for themselves. I can’t tell you how glad I am to read these post replies. They are certainly a site for sore eyes.

For those that claim that this land was stolen from this rancher I say, prove it. From what I have read this guy is out of line. The Bureau of Land Management has a lot to do;

Our Mission
The BLM's mission is to manage and conserve the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations under our mandate of multiple-use and sustained yield.
...
In managing livestock grazing on public rangelands, the BLM’s overall objective is to ensure the long-term health and productivity of these lands and to create multiple environmental benefits that result from healthy watersheds.

BLM
Cliven Bundy is not the only one that lives in Nevada or the United States of America. This is our land (America's) not his.

It’s apparent that there are a lot of people here that need to spend more time reading and less time complaining.

My fellow ATSers, it wasn't the feds who took away Mr. Bundy's grazing permit--it was his local county officials.

In 1998, five years after Bundy began to refuse to pay his publicly subsidized grazing fees in 1993, the BLM finally revoked his grazing permit for failure to pay those fees. Clark County then bought out that permit for $375,000 and retired them permanently to protect the desert tortoise under the Clark County Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan.

kcet.org

Clark County Conservation Plan

I'm going to bold this last part, to make sure all of the "Federal Gubmint sucks" crowd doesn't miss this:

Clark County then bought out that permit for $375,000 and retired them permanently to protect the desert tortoise under the Clark County Multiple Species Habitat Conservation Plan.

The BLM is just finally implementing their duty as the stewards of our shared public lands in the Gold Butte region. If you want to bemoan the federal response to this issue--complain about why it took so long for them to remove this dude's free-loading beef.