Armed Fed Agents and Snipers in Nevada Battle with Local Rancher

reply to post by Olivine


BLM
" Cliven Bundy is not the only one that lives in Nevada or the United States of America. This is our land (America's) not his.

It’s apparent that there are a lot of people here that need to spend more time reading and less time complaining. "

I certainly hope when you typed out the above statement you weren't eating a steak, hamburger or a hot dog. This man is providing food, you know, the item you need to survive? Its not like this is some valuable land that people camp, hunt and fish on for public use, its a damn wasteland barely suitable for cattle. Yes that land belongs to all Americans, the ones that get fed by the cattle on there. I'm a taxpayer, his cattle can eat my portion of grass free of charge, I am sure enough other Americans have the same sentiment. Is it now a policy that government land is supposed to be used for income, for what, to buy more guns?

To assert another statement. Why send in armed government Gestapo to remove cattle with helicopters? The government doesn't have a damn clue how to round up cattle, why are they now spending millions for this fiasco? To prove a point? That is ridiculous. They could have paid some actual ranch hands, that do it for a living, without guns, with a horse, and with respect for the cattle to round these up. It would have been 1/20th the cost to taxpayers. If the ranchers shoots at these unarmed ranch hands then fine, send in the Gestapo, they like shooting people and saying "I am just doing my job". The problem is, the government doesn't have a damn clue on what they are doing unless it involves a gun and overwhelming force.

What ever happened to Americans believing in freedom against tyranny? WTF.

My fellow ATSers, it wasn't the feds who took away Mr. Bundy's grazing permit--it was his local county officials.

Correct me if I’m wrong but no one took his permit away, he failed to renew it and it was eventually sold for other uses. It seems that Mr Bundy has been illegally using this land for over 20 years. These permits are good for 10 years according to the BLM but when did his old permit expire, 1993?

Permits and leases generally cover a 10-year period and are renewable if the BLM determines that the terms and conditions of the expiring permit or lease are being met

BLM

It appears that the T&C have not been met so the permit becomes available to anyone else for use. The permit was not taken away but it was Mr Bundy that gave the permit up by not paying to renew it. It seems that he brought this on himself.

reply to post by govmule

This man is providing food, you know, the item you need to survive?

Raising cattle is fine, making a profit from raising cattle is fine too. I hope cattle ranches, like Mr Bundy, are doing well.
Illegally using land is not ok. Everyone else has to buy permits to use public land, why is this guy any different? All he had to do was continue purchasing permits for land use and none of this would have happened. He got greedy and stubborn and lost the use of the land. It’s his fault.

Is it now a policy that government land is supposed to be used for income, for what, to buy more guns?

No, as with all permits the money goes towards the management of said department or bureau, in this case land management. There are many people that would be willing to destroy our lands for their own personal gain and profit. This is why land management, regulations and permits are necessary.

What ever happened to Americans believing in freedom against tyranny?

So you think freedom means one person can do whatever they like with public land? They don’t need to adhere to federal laws or purchase permits when required? Do you think tyranny is a government agency that was appointed to protect the use of public lands? Please!

By the way, you're replying to Olivine while quoting Me.

JonButtonIII
reply to post by thesaneone

 

His family owned that land for centuries. The feds illegally and immorally rezoned it out from under him--ostensibly to protect a turtle, but more likely than not to sell it to some land developer willing to pay pennies on the dollar for it.

For too long we've been living under the thumb of tyranny, forced to suffer under the slogan "when the people rob the government, the people must suffer the price; when the government robs the people, the people must bend over and beg for more."

It's time to flip that around, and remind this parasitic government that it exists only to serve us--not itself.

edit on 8-4-2014 by JonButtonIII because: (no reason given)

DIng Ding Ding.

This was my first thought too but someone did the research for me.
Could you link your facts to silence the naysayers?

reply to post by GreenMtnBoys


Not in AZ you can't raise 100 head of cattle on 1000 acres. The mountains here are anything but green.

GreenMtnBoys Maybe we shouldn't be raising cattle in the desert ever think of that?

Yeah, their cousins the bison fared so poorly.

reply to post by govmule


Hi govmule. I'm pretty certain the quoted material in your post was not made by me, but someone replying to my post.

I do enjoy a cheeseburger on rare occasions. I buy my ground beef from a local farm market.

In fact, this area is used by many people for recreation, and it is not a wasteland -- strikingly beautiful IMO. Check out the image search results for
Gold Butte region
Nevada Wilderness

Did you know that the Nevada Cattleman's Association has distanced itself from Mr. Bundy? They know they get a good deal, paying only a few bucks a day per head to graze on allocated lands.

So far, the Nevada Cattlemen's Association (NCA), which represents some 700 ranchers in the state, is taking a hands-off stance on Bundy's protest.

Asked if other Nevada cattlemen were as angry with the federal government as Bundy, Torell said, "absolutely not."

ksfy.com


I agree with you about the helicopters being overkill. They should have done it only used hired, local cowboys to round up the cattle. As far as needing guns to remove Mr. Bundy's herd, he has stated, “Cliven Bundy will do whatever it takes to protect his property and rights and liberty and freedoms and those of, We the People, of Clark County Nevada”. So a bit of protection was called for. quote source

FOR THE RECORD: Free speech ZONE sounds a lot better than Free Speech CAGE, which is what a free speech zone really is.

reply to post by trig_grl


And be assured this has NOTHING to do with a tortoise species. From what I've been coming across, 20 - 150 species of animals go extinct EVERY SINGLE DAY. Since Earth began, 90% of species have gone extinct. Anyone can bet their ass that they want that land, they don't give two #s about a turtle species.

reply to post by Devino


The tyranny lies in the over abundant show of force by the government. How many armed Gestapo does it take to kill a man and his family? Does this man have a history of violence? I haven't seen that link here yet. I would say "I will do what ever it takes to provide safety and security for my family", that is not a threat, that is how I feel, it doesn't mean I would go shoot up the place.

From a different poster, I stand by my comment about it being a wasteland, I have been in the area many times, some say its beautiful, I think its ugly, that's why I don't live there. It is obviously not too wonderful or the millions of people that go to Las Vegas every year would go there in huge numbers to see it and camp there. Hmm, how many would do that in July and August? I am surprised cattle can survive there.

The BLM needs that money to do what? Administer the land? Where the hell does our 3 trillion dollars a year go for federal taxes? We pay them to drive around with guns and run off cattle (with three helicopters) from a tortoise? Maybe they just need the money to do a study on why Polar Bears don't live there, now that I would believe the government is capable of spending money on, maybe they already have....Any links? . This whole thing has been blown way of proportion by an over zealous government. Like I said, they cant run the government let alone run cattle.

Although I don't think anyone here yet has the entire true story from the start of this issue, I doubt the government is innocent, I would bet they are the corrupt ones.

reply to post by trig_grl


Seems to me if the government wanted to actually protect an endangered species on this land, they would have taken the land and not allowed anything to disturb it. By allowing him to graze his cattle there "for a fee", would still be causing a disturbance on the land, so what is the real agenda beneath all this I wonder.

If I thought I could get there in time, I'd be burning gas right now.

This nonsense has to stop, and it has to stop soon.


I used to own a ballroom, and the hoops I had to jump through, along with the cash payments to county officials almost made it a losing concern.

The environmental services guys wanted "consulting fee's" to approve my new septic. The sheriff wanted $100 an hour (cash only) for deputies at my events, even though they often left early or showed up late. And planning and zoning had all kinds of odd requests that ended with me hiring a relative to survey the lot markers.

And this wasn't in New Jersey, Chicago or New Orleans, it was in a rural Midwest town.

This is OUR country, not theirs.

It's time we showed them who's really in charge.

There are 290 million of us to 10 million of them.

As a bit of clarification, Bundy was grazing more than 5 times the number of cattle approved for this area. When researchers arrived they found that the cattle were gaunt, starving, and emaciated because of the over grazing by Bundy.
Bundy overgrazing

See live and local hour 2
I am against government intruding on our lives as much, if not more, than most. BUT Bundy clearly did not care about what he did to the land and the cattle. I believe that, more than anything, he just wants to rub our faces in the law. Just my $.02.

reply to post by rockflier


According to the feds.

The same people who said it was all to save some turtles.


Consider your sources.

reply to post by Hmmmmmmm


You need to read the article again.

His problems happened before the tortoise B.S.

reply to post by rockflier


So he should be confronted by hundreds of armed agents because of hungry cattle? Shoot a man, save some cattle? Shoot a man save a turtle? If what he is doing is so illegal, why is he not in prison? Oh I forgot, beat up his son and arrest him first for taking a picture on public land, that way you can show the intimidation to the public so they don't mess with you......or else!

reply to post by thesaneone


I read it.

The turtle nonsense was how they chose to attack him after the relationship broke down.

So why would they think using bogus animal welfare reports would be off limits?


There is no limit to how low a bureaucrat will stoop to achieve a goal, especially if it means they might get promoted.

Where are the pics of all these armed agents?

reply to post by govmule

I did not say that nor infer that. I merely gave a link to some more background on this. I neither agree with nor condone the federal reaction. I see nowhere where I tried to justify the reactions, merely present some more FACTS into the mix.
Have a good day.
EDIT: The radio interview was with a NON government agency or employee.

reply to post by Hmmmmmmm


The environmental services guys wanted "consulting fee's" to approve my new septic. The sheriff wanted $100 an hour (cash only) for deputies at my events, even though they often left early or showed up late. And planning and zoning had all kinds of odd requests that ended with me hiring a relative to survey the lot markers.

I agree with your statements, I have had to pay the same also, and I live in the Midwest. Government over reach and abuse has become a rampant avalanche of steaming cow manure.

reply to post by seeker1963

What is really disturbing is that they have set up a so called "Free Speech Zone" to corral anyone whom is showing up to defend this rancher! One person has been arrested for refusing to accept being put in this so called corral of free speech!

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the first amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances provided said people and activities are conducted within an officially designated first amendment zone.

Their son, Dave, was arrested and allegedly roughed up Sunday for filming federal agents while outside an area designated for First Amendment activity on the restricted property

Clearly this rabble rousing "Dave" ne'er do well hasn't read the revised first amendment. He was probably trying to take pictures or engaged in some other shady and nefarious activity. He's lucky all he got was a beat down and a night in jail.