US Threatens Russia Over Petrodollar-Busting Deal

Have i got this wrong, or haven't the U.S. still got the plentiful Alaskan oil fields to fall back on?

If so then perhaps this is why Russia have started making noises about wanting parts of Alaska; they're trying to apply the screws.

The U.S. probably have a plan B, C and D for this scenario. I just hope using a missing airline jet as a false flag to justify war as a means to try and sidestep economic collapse is not one of them; that the disappearing a plane wasn't a message to others that they're prepared to do this.

Here's hoping that's a load of far fetched rambling BS

Biigs
I dont know why everyones getting so alarmed about this, its long over due.

The US gravy train is about to be derailed, i just hope they dont take other nations down with them.

I don't think you people quite understand what you're talking about. 65% of the worlds reserve holdings are in USD.



Russian trade isn't enough to really make the type of impact you all are suggesting. Russia exports about $500 billion annually (as much as the US imports from China). Please explain how that will upset the USD as a reserve currency? Does OPEC still use the USD? Are most transactions in the world based upon USD? Is the USD not the largest reserve currency in the world?

As for "taking other nations down with them"... Understand this; 25% of the worlds GDP is in the US economy. The US economy generates roughly $17 trillion EVERY YEAR. The US isn't Jamaica...if a quarter of all the worlds GDP collapses, do you have any idea of the profound implications to the global economy this would have?? You would be looking at a complete and total collapse of the world economy. No one would be spared.

I called this back in December and it was well known even back then that this was on the horizon. Snowden was a setup to get the US people to begin hating BRICS nations. After all...Snowden traveled to three of those countries while running from the CIA. LINK: www.abovetopsecret.com...


ALL of you who mention that China holds the largest portion of US debt clearly don't know what you're talking about. The FED owns almost 70% of the US debt. The FED is not an American Institution either. It is made up of mostly overseas bankers.
China could call in ALL of it's $600 Billion USD and it wouldn't even cause a hiccup in the US Economy. Hell...we spent more on a fuggin website (Healthcare.gov) than we owe China. Chump change.

In the last few months, the US has gone on a gold stealing spree. From the tonnes we stole from Germany just a few months ago, to the 350 tonnes that were whisked out of the Ukraine immediately after the US placed a temporary "leader" in charge. Now...the Saudis have had tonnes of their gold stolen by the US. They are hedging as we speak and they should continue to steal it all in my opinion. For centuries, the USofA has bent over backwards to help other nations while other nations rape our land and culture to something unrecognizable at this point. These nations will reap what they sow in due course.

Also...doesn't anyone remember that China owes the USofA almost as much as we owe them? Noone remembers that after we saved Chinas Red commie asses from Japan in WW2, China defaulted on all the contracts made to the US at that time? For those that don't remember:

juneauempire.com...


I say we should default on them just as they did to us!

On another note, do any of you realize just how much the world NEEDS the US???? The world could literally shut us out of all trade and they'd still lose. Why? Well...we aren't known as the "Bread Basket of the World" for nothing. All the US has to do is stop shipping Wheat, Barley, and Soy as exports. You don't need to be a superpower when you have the largest supply of grain products in the world. Simply starve the world until they beg for mercy.

Before some of you claim that the world would bring war onto our shores and decimate us if we tried that: No nation or group of nations on the planet has the ability to wage a war on US soil. Our NAVY would crush any ships hundreds of miles before reaching our shores. Even if the world managed to land a few hundred thousand troops somehow...they would be crushed just by the populace. No nation can possibly fight a door to door war with 300 million armed Americans sniping the crap outta them. This has been proven in all the wars the US has been in in the last 50 years.

This is all a non-issue for us because contrary to what the fear-mongers word vomit about petrodollars, it really isn't that big of deal in the long run. Neither China nor Russia have the capability or the tonnage of gold required to back a new world reserve currency. And even if they did, the USA would never allow it to get any type of foot hold before smacking it down by either force, or by withholding all grain exports worldwide.

We need no imports from any countries to survive people! That is all propoganda. We have more natural gas reserves than Russia and more oil in the form of shale than Saudi Arabia. We can feed our own populace easily, and have the infrastructure to produce anything else needed. So why is everyone babbling on about how terrible this would be? It's the exact reset that's needed. BRICS will fail because the countries involved are barely 2nd world. None produce anything at all that the US can't get on its own property...besides perhaps rare earth minerals...which mean nothing in a war zone anyway.

Everyone thought Germany was down for the count after they were torn to shreds in WW1 right? Merely a decade later, Hitler gets rid of the banksters there and Germany started it's course to become the dominant power in the world. They stomped a mudhole in numerous countries before a few mistakes did them in. Germany very well could have taken on the whole world and won had it not been for Mussolini fugging things up in Africa.

We would become the Germany of old if the world took a # on us. Americans would band together as they always have, and it would't be long before we were back on top again. China and Russia are NOTHING militarily when compared to the US. We could easily beat the snot out of both of them and never even have to send a ship or one soldier.

Okay...sorry for the length, I'm done

McGinty
Have i got this wrong, or haven't the U.S. still got the plentiful Alaskan oil fields to fall back on?

If so then perhaps this is why Russia have started making noises about wanting parts of Alaska; they're trying to apply the screws.

The U.S. probably have a plan B, C and D for this scenario. I just hope using a missing airline jet as a false flag to justify war as a means to try and sidestep economic collapse is not one of them; that the disappearing a plane wasn't a message to others that they're prepared to do this.

Here's hoping that's a load of far fetched rambling BS

edit on 5-4-2014 by McGinty because: (no reason given)

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Alaska, Americas treasure box.

Russia can make all the noise they want about alaska. They will never have it back, even if they tried using military force, it wouldn't work.
They could try the intimidation card like with Ukraine, but that would be a big fail.

reply to post by rock427


---
You seem to know your stuffy rocky, keep up the good work.
All this fear mongering and scare tactics, it gets old.
Perfect breeding grounds for the Anti US crowd if you ask me, the first two pages of the thread are filled with them, all that's missing is a case of beer an pizza.
--
THREAD - No Star, No Flag.

Oil reserves of the continental USA is 26.5 billion barrels, the USA only imports oil to keep that reserve intact, so, worst case, USA saves dollars, and uses its reserves, and gives the middle finger to its ex gas suppliers. ( that figure is from Wiki)

As regards the US starving the world, India exports rice, Russia/Ukraine grows its own wheat, Asia grows lord knows how much rice, and has land to spare, South America has land to spare too, "needs must when the devil drives" half the world is overfed anyway.

pikestaff
As regards the US starving the world, India exports rice, Russia/Ukraine grows its own wheat, Asia grows lord knows how much rice, and has land to spare, South America has land to spare too, "needs must when the devil drives" half the world is overfed anyway.

Here are just a few fallacies regarding that illogical reply:

First, rice is not a cereal grain. You can do one thing with it...eat it as is or turn them into Rice Krispies. While rice contains many benefits, it's uses are limited and a human being cannot survive on rice alone. You are comparing apples and oranges really, but lemme bring out some statistics for you:


Firstly, you don't know jack about exports/imports. You feel that because a country can produce millions of tonnes of rice, that they have any way to get that rice to a market silly. This is China and India you're talking about lol. They have zero infrastructure in outlying farm lands to handle producing it's own food for billions of people. They do not have the irrigation methods in order to produce enough food to feed the billions of people of the country. To prove this fact, one only has to look at WW2. Russian soldiers were starving as were the Chinese. Why? Because they received no grain imports from the US or its allies. Those countries cannot support both a war with the US as well as provide basic necessities for their soldiers or populace. Here is a nice link from the Washington Post explaining why the US will eventually be at war for it's grain:

www.washingtonpost.com...


Secondly, the US is responsible for over 50% of the worlds corn exports, 50% of the soybean exports, and 18% of the worlds wheat exports. Should the US immediately stop all exports of the above grains, (80 tonnes of which China imports every year to meet only 1/5th of it's needs according to the above link) the world would starve while we continued eating and getting fat.

Thirdly, you are assuming that any country in the world has the freshwater reserves to make up the difference the US shortage would make. On the contrary, the US has the largest fresh water supply on the planet. Tell me oh Wizard of Smart, where are you going to grow grains in South America?? Cereal grains don't grow in tropical climates. Not to mention that China is having severe issues with dessert encroachment. There's no more land to convert into farms.

I could literally list dozens of reasons why you are completely wrong, but I think I've proven my point and there's much more in that link.

reply to post by Arnie123

Really Arnie123

Fearmongering, scare tactics, anti us thread, would it have not been easier to say, I agree with you rock.

This is not about any of the above, a discussion has been raised and being discussed with members voicing their own opinions, you included.

reply to post by keenasbro


I seem to remember Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi toying with the idea of replacing the petro dollar with their own respective currencies ....look what happened to them. The United States won't let it happen....

reply to post by Miniscuzz

Hi Miniscuzz

You are right, so what China and other countries in the land poor parts of the world have been doing, is buying/leasing land on a massive scale in other parts of the world, Australia, Ukraine, Africa and more, to grow the grain, rear the beef they need to feed their population, they realise the position they are in, they have known for years and have been buying/leasing land for years, millions of hectares in fact.

3 million hectares in The Ukraine alone, in September 2013. (That should raise an eyebrow or 2)

newswatch.nationalgeographic.com...

What’s the solution? In short, to buy more land—and to buy it from countries that either don’t need it, or could use the money instead. In 2008, UAE brought 324 hectares (1.25 square miles) of land in Pakistan. A year later, South Korea bought nearly twice that amount in Sudan. This week, China announced the biggest land lease ever: 3 million hectares (11,500 square miles) of Ukrainian land. Or put more simply: 1/20th of all Ukraine.

reply to post by Razor1


But, but Razor1 it is already happening, Countries are at this very moment trading in their own currencies, or gold for oil, gold for goods, whether these actions takes the USD off the map as the global currency remains to be seen, possible yes, probable yes.

When you have the IMF supporting such an action, it doesn't come down to the rest of the world against USA, it seems more like a change is needed because the present system is broken (not my words) there are plenty of links provided in my previous posts covering this subject.

I cannot see the likely hood of the USD going down in one big slap, too much is at stake for all Countries, there will be an adjustment, will this adjustment have an affect, of course, if it is inevitable then the cleaver ones will work out some type of deal to soften the blow to the USD. imo

Countries buying up that land is pointless in an economic or military warzone. Almost all of the grain produced by those regions will not go to the people, it goes to the huge pork farms of China (who now consume twice the amount per year than America) and to feed farm animals.

On top of that, the logistics of actually producing crops and transporting them from thousands of miles away while waging war of any kind would be far too staggering for any country to maintain. It was only a few short years ago (2006) that China was grain "self-sufficient" and since then, China has become the largest importer of grain in the world. This is because the younger generation didn't live through the great famine in China that killed 35+ million citizens. The younger generation has become too Westernized and there's no way they'll allow the leaders of China to take away their Nike sneakers and big screens by waging a losing economic or military war.

China also doesn't have the farmers or equipment to till 3 million hectares of anything while at the same time trying to maintain hundreds of tonnes of gold required to back a new reserve currency (Yuan). Russia is even worse because the 45 Billion USD that Putin is worth is about all the country has. Even though their military has good hardware such as tanks and bombers, they are useless without gas or food enough to feed infantry. The US and her allies would blockade every port in every oil producing country and that would be that. While Russia has plenty of oil itself, it doesn't have the proper facilities to process millions of barrels of oil per day into the gasoline required to wage any military war.

I'm no fanboy of the current policies of the US, but in any real world scenario that involves war, whether economic or military, the US just cannot lose. Especially once you get her citizens worked up into a frenzy. Which is exactly what would happen when they wake up on morning and find that prices have skyrocketed due to a petrodollar change. Once the finger was pointed at an already hated China, it would be the absolute end of China and whomever dared stand with her.


And please, I know my writing style is smarmy and seemingly condescending, but that's not my intent. It's just the way I write

reply to post by Miniscuzz


As long as you get your point across Miniscuzz, that's all that matters.
If everyone on ATS agreed, there would be no ATS.

rock427
LMAO if you believe "Eastern" nations aren't vying for the same influence and clout that the West is. There is not such thing as a "fair" or level playing field. Also, Gold is overrated. The reason why the US went off the Gold standard is because gold is not an exponential money supply. It is a rare metal. The fiat currency itself is silly...but it is all based upon a certain set structure in which society is based upon. The US dollar is backed by the worlds largest economy, and one of the worlds most stable politically ran countries in the world. It is because of this, that the USD will remain the world reserve currency for the foreseeable future.

It is quite amusing isn't it? Some of these folks act as if Russia and China would not subjugate the entire World if they had the chance. The same morons who are cheering on the so-called death of The United States will be the same idiots who will be begging god to bring America back while down on their knees inside some slave labor camp, clueless.

It's a dog eat dog world, good or bad, nothing will ever change that. Don't believe for a second that The United States will allow itself to be destroyed. The Saudis, and others, better rethink their plans. Make no mistake about it, we will do what we have to do in order to survive. ~$heopleNation

Miniscuzz

pikestaff
As regards the US starving the world, India exports rice, Russia/Ukraine grows its own wheat, Asia grows lord knows how much rice, and has land to spare, South America has land to spare too, "needs must when the devil drives" half the world is overfed anyway.

Here are just a few fallacies regarding that illogical reply:

First, rice is not a cereal grain. You can do one thing with it...eat it as is or turn them into Rice Krispies. While rice contains many benefits, it's uses are limited and a human being cannot survive on rice alone. You are comparing apples and oranges really, but lemme bring out some statistics for you:


Firstly, you don't know jack about exports/imports. You feel that because a country can produce millions of tonnes of rice, that they have any way to get that rice to a market silly. This is China and India you're talking about lol. They have zero infrastructure in outlying farm lands to handle producing it's own food for billions of people. They do not have the irrigation methods in order to produce enough food to feed the billions of people of the country. To prove this fact, one only has to look at WW2. Russian soldiers were starving as were the Chinese. Why? Because they received no grain imports from the US or its allies. Those countries cannot support both a war with the US as well as provide basic necessities for their soldiers or populace. Here is a nice link from the Washington Post explaining why the US will eventually be at war for it's grain:

www.washingtonpost.com...


Secondly, the US is responsible for over 50% of the worlds corn exports, 50% of the soybean exports, and 18% of the worlds wheat exports. Should the US immediately stop all exports of the above grains, (80 tonnes of which China imports every year to meet only 1/5th of it's needs according to the above link) the world would starve while we continued eating and getting fat.

Thirdly, you are assuming that any country in the world has the freshwater reserves to make up the difference the US shortage would make. On the contrary, the US has the largest fresh water supply on the planet. Tell me oh Wizard of Smart, where are you going to grow grains in South America?? Cereal grains don't grow in tropical climates. Not to mention that China is having severe issues with dessert encroachment. There's no more land to convert into farms.

I could literally list dozens of reasons why you are completely wrong, but I think I've proven my point and there's much more in that link.

I am not sure if I agree with you, but you do make valid points! Very good in fact!

Star for you

Miniscuzz
We need no imports from any countries to survive people! That is all propoganda. We have more natural gas reserves than Russia and more oil in the form of shale than Saudi Arabia. We can feed our own populace easily, and have the infrastructure to produce anything else needed. So why is everyone babbling on about how terrible this would be? It's the exact reset that's needed. BRICS will fail because the countries involved are barely 2nd world. None produce anything at all that the US can't get on its own property...besides perhaps rare earth minerals...which mean nothing in a war zone anyway.

Well said. People just do not comprehend just how much food we export to the entire World, California alone! As if we would just sit back and allow China to suck the World's resources dry? LMAO! Um no, I think not. ~$heopleNation

The worlds largest economy yes.

www.forbes.com...

The World's 10 Most Responsible Governments

Want a limited government that’s held accountable by society? Then start packing.

With all this talk about fiscal responsibility in the U.S. and Europe, the World Justice Project’s latest rule of law index gives civil society a sense of which governments are fair and accountable. And the U.S. is not even in the top 15.

The Washington based World Justice Project conducts the review annually to better gauge progress in which countries are improving in terms of corruption, security and general governance. It looks at over 90 nations. In one category, limited government powers, the U.S. is not even in the top ten. It ranks in the mid-teens.

1 Denmark
2 Sweden
3 Norway
4 Finland
5 Australia
6 New Zealand
7 Nederlands
8 Austria
9 Germany
10 Japan

For anyone who is interested.

What Is the History of the Gold Standard?

useconomy.about.com...

reply to post by keenasbro

--
Every single one of those countries with the exception of maybe two are relatively small GDP's compared to the bigger powers.
Its easy to be on the top ten list when your small, contribute certain products and receive help from bigger nations.
I bet China and Russia are in the mid-teens two, eh?
I thought so.
Your pretty much comparing apples to oranges.
Half, if not all, those nations listed are not even considered regional powers! but rely on each other for mutual protection, some of which chilling on the shoulders of giants, literally.

ArchAngel_X


The U.S. government threatening to sanction these countries if they make an oil deal that doesn't involve them in some capacity?

Iran and Russia are both oil exporters. They're competitors. What normal commercial deal would they make?

The problem is because there are economic sanctions on Iran, and this deal isn't business, it's Russia money & oil laundering to evade them for Iran's benefit.

Plenty of other countries make actual oil deals all the time and nobody bothers them because they are normal business.