US Threatens Russia Over Petrodollar-Busting Deal

keenasbro
What Is the History of the Gold Standard?
useconomy.about.com...

Thank you for that info. I don't think anyone here is questioning the fact that our Politicians spend like drunken sailors, and that they are complete lunatics who are out of control in that regard.

While on the subject of Gold, It's a funny thing about John Sutter discovering Gold in California on January 24, 1848. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed on February 2, 1848, which ceded California and The South West to The USA from Mexico, and which also ended the Mexican-American War (1846–48).

Course we paid them for California and the South West, but it looks as if Sutter discovered the Gold prior to the treaty being signed. Anyone think that maybe, just maybe, we kept that discovery quiet for a few months? Or after all, word traveled slow back then, so maybe Mexico just didn't hear about it a few weeks later?

Well that is about as close as you get. Man, That must really historically irk The Mexicans, I know it would me. That would have been a major game changer in history had they not allowed California to slip through their hands. Also, They offered us Baja California for 1 million dollars, but we declined.

Foolish on our part, I would love to have Cabo San Lucas beach front property. Baja is mostly desert, but the beaches and islands are absolutely beautiful. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by Arnie123

I'm not comparing any thing with anything, I have linked a source.

You seem to be taking the content of this thread personally, your opinion is as valuable as the next persons, after all said, are we all entitled to an opinion.

Isn't the reason of threads to bring out subjects that can be discussed, again this is not an attack on USA It is pointing out what is happening in the political arena in regards to the petrodollar.

deadcalm

Why there is a need to threat or kill anyone over this?

It's a VERY big deal. If the US loses it's reserve currency staus there will be a complete and total meltdown of the US economy. Interest rates go through the roof...hyperinflation will follow on it's heels...it would take a dump truck full of US dollars to buy a loaf of bread.

That's totally preposterous. The US will not lose its reserve currency status. Over 25 years as China opens up its capital account and permits more free trade in yuan bonds globally and have a globally trustworthy regulatory regime, then its currency will also enjoy "reserve" status, in conjunction with the US dollar and EU euro.

Thats why the US would kill and threaten over this....their continued existence as a superpower depends upon it.

There's a persistent illusion here on ATS that 'reserve currency' status is simultaneously tremendously powerful, and yet so fragile and weak that one action or choice by a tin-pot dictator can cause everything to crash.

A reserve currency is precisely one which will not do that! That's just the point of it---if it were so potentially unstable then nobody would use it as a 'reserve currency'!

This status is a choice of the global free market. It comes about not by any fiat but because of the collective choices of millions of people and economic contracts and ties deeply embedded in the economy. This doesn't change quickly, either up or down.

It took WW2 to turn the UK pound off its role as the primary reserve currency globally and even still it is a significantly traded currency after Euro, dollar and yen, and London is still a principal financial centre.

keenasbro
reply to post by Arnie123

 

I'm not comparing any thing with anything, I have linked a source.

You seem to be taking this thread personally, your opinion is as valuable as the next persons, after all said, are we all entitled to an opinion.

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If that's the case, then your analysis is wrong.
I have only posted 4 times including this post, where is there are multiple post by various other users who completely disagree with this threat and others who completely agree, yet you some how manage to isolate me hmmmm?
You are entitled to any Opinion you want, that's what we are here for, just my opinion is vastly different than yours and I simply posting it.
The overall premise of this thread is basically fear mongering, its in the global meltdown forum for crying out loud, lol.
There has been sufficient evidence in this thread posted by various users that detail the ramifications should other countries steer away from the petro-dollar.
I'm simply agreeing and pointing out the obvious.
Again, your entitled to your opinion, but your should also take criticism.

This is your thread, your house, I walked in with muddy boots and said # your couch. what of it?

Here is the ultimate kicker, if things happen as you suggest, imagine millions, yes MILLIONS of people dying in less then 6 months. It'll be the single greatest event next to extinction level events, a Global economy that goes down like the US and you can expect some serious ripples, people get scared, hench, fear mongering.

reply to post by mbkennel


Thank you for an informative reply mbkennel

reply to post by Miniscuzz


Interesting read there Miniscuzz.
Your writing style does come across as somewhat brash,
but your facts are tight.
This form of communication can be taken out of context,
I have learned that it is good to keep that in mind.
As I have unintentionally bashed other ATS members
at times.

We are all in the same boat here, for the most part.

I don't understand why oil continues to be such a huge deal for the United States. If the United States would quit shipping it out, get that Canadian pipeline going, open up ANWAR, expand offshore drilling, and other things of that nature, the United States could be self sustaining on oil. There is absolutely no excuse in the world for the United States to be so dependent on foreign oil.

It's time to bring back domestic manufacturing, domestic steel, domestic everything. It's come to the point where the United States has got to become independent and self-sustaining in order to survive.

The US will not lose its reserve currency status.

Yes...yes it will. If it is not precipitated by Russia then it will be the Chinese. But I can assure you...it will happen. The days of the US being able to force it's will on the rest of the world are very nearly over. China has been hoarding gold at a rate that would make your head spin. They are well aware that sooner or later, they are going to loose their investment in American treasuries and are positioning themselves for that eventuality.

As my economics prof used to love to say....things are only impossible...until their not.

There's a persistent illusion here on ATS that 'reserve currency' status is simultaneously tremendously powerful, and yet so fragile and weak that one action or choice by a tin-pot dictator can cause everything to crash.

As with any fiat currency, it is only as good as the confidence that people, businesses or nations have in it. In case you haven't noticed...confidence in the US dollar is definitely not increasing. The Chinese, Russians and the Indians have been openly discussing a basket of currencies rather than the US petrodollar.

Having the reserve currency status is an enormous advantage....and it is the only thing keeping the US from complete financial decimation....for now.

If China were to offer the renimbi backed by China's massive gold reserves, which are conservatively estimated at around 8000 + tons...I guarantee you the flight from the US dollar would be swift and total.

I wouldn't underestimate the Chinese were I you.

The Romans once thought as you do...and where are they now?

Great powers rise and fall....the US will be no different....and it can happen much quicker than you think.

reply to post by deadcalm

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Sure, but then again the Roman empires economy was based off looting its enemies...

The US is not the Roman Empire.

But we can agree on one thing, Empires do rise and fall.

China was once a dominate force, correct? it is an old civilization, maybe perhaps they will regain greatness, then the cycle repeats once again.

Do you believe we will see significant change in our life time? if so, are you willing to contend with losing your lifestyle? assuming your an American that is.

This is already starting to happen, I will give a real life example of a company that I dealt with.

A big portion of export went to America, but because the US dollar was so artificially low in the US because the American government was printing money they were not getting a good return. These were quality customers so they didn't want to not export to them.

but...

No profit! So a decision was made to stop exporting to the US totally and find other markets in other countries. Not only that, the target country could then pay in whatever currency it liked as long as the exporter could re-use that currency. Yen, Aust dollar, yaun, whatever

In short they pay for the product in whatever currency, then once that money is collected then use that money to buy goods from that country. IE Sell product A to china, get paid in Yuan. Use that Yuan to then buy product you need from china/ win / win. Cuts out US dollar conversions.

That's how it works. If countries and companies are losing out on business deals and profit with America they will naturally take their business elsewhere.

deadcalm
Yes...yes it will. If it is not precipitated by Russia then it will be the Chinese. But I can assure you...it will happen. The days of the US being able to force it's will on the rest of the world are very nearly over. China has been hoarding gold at a rate that would make your head spin. They are well aware that sooner or later, they are going to loose their investment in American treasuries and are positioning themselves for that eventuality.

Contrary to popular internationalist propagandized belief, We are still the music makers, and we are still without a doubt the dreamers of dreams.

As my economics prof used to love to say....things are only impossible...until their not.

Maybe you should have told your know nothing Professor that "wisdom comes in the knowledge that you know nothing"?

Yeah, that other drivel Sounds real good when spoken to a bunch of hung over, wake and baked College students, but at the end of the day, it's just more hyped up typical left-wing nonsense. No matter left or right though, it's all herded to one side or the other, moronic nonsense.

As with any fiat currency, it is only as good as the confidence that people, businesses or nations have in it. In case you haven't noticed...confidence in the US dollar is definitely not increasing. The Chinese, Russians and the Indians have been openly discussing a basket of currencies rather than the US petrodollar.

Oh no, oh my? The Chinese, The Russians and the Indians are openly discussing freely what they should openly be able to discuss freely? Wow, imagine that? Why so much hate for a America that built all 3 of those Nations up with sharing technology and trade with them, What is wrong with your way of thinking? It really seems as if you bumped your head real hard, or you just despise crystal clear facts?

Having the reserve currency status is an enormous advantage....and it is the only thing keeping the US from complete financial decimation....for now.

LMAO!, Oh really now? So it was good when some Nations benefited off of the USA's influence, but now that the 2 or 3 other big dogs have enjoyed the fruits of it all, now America must perish? What an opportunistic position to take when other less developed Nations have yet to benefit off of the same technology and support? No, you guys don't want any new competition at all, now do you?

[QUOTE]If China were to offer the renimbi backed by China's massive gold reserves, which are conservatively estimated at around 8000 + tons...I guarantee you the flight from the US dollar would be swift and total.[/QUOTE]

You obviously do not understand World Economics, let alone free trade.

I wouldn't underestimate the Chinese were I you.

I agree, nobody should underestimate the Chinese, they are a very intelligent and resourceful people. I don't believe anyone here in America is doing that, aside from a few fools commenting on Yahoo News or the internet in general.

The Romans once thought as you do...and where are they now?

Actually, They have a country these days, it's called Italy. It's a great Nation by the way.

Great powers rise and fall....the US will be no different....and it can happen much quicker than you think.

Well, well ,well, Two naughty little children soon to be gone. -Willy Wonka



~$heopleNation

reply to post by Arnie123

Sure, but then again the Roman empires economy was based off looting its enemies... The US is not the Roman Empire.

Well, Iraqi's gold reserves went missing, Germany can't seem to recover theirs, and Ukraine was very recently looted of all of their Gold.

Whilst spending more than a decade in Iraqi, the US was pumping oil like there was no tomorrow.

The US may use different terminology and do it a bit on the quiet, but looters loot.

P

pheonix358
reply to post by Arnie123

 

Sure, but then again the Roman empires economy was based off looting its enemies... The US is not the Roman Empire.

Well, Iraqi's gold reserves went missing, Germany can't seem to recover theirs, and Ukraine was very recently looted of all of their Gold.

Whilst spending more than a decade in Iraqi, the US was pumping oil like there was no tomorrow.

The US may use different terminology and do it a bit on the quiet, but looters loot.

P

--
Iraq? who says we took it? Link please.

Germany can't seem to recover their gold? sounds like a personal problem, we didn't take it. If so, Link please.

Ukrainian gold? so its missing, okkkkkk....so let me guess, we took that too? Link please.

Iraqi oil, well now, who wouldn't help themselves to some oil? specially when there was a time all those oil wells were on fire, hmmm? might as well put it to good use.

No, I'm going to have to disagree with you.
Respectfully disagree that is.

EternalSolace
I don't understand why oil continues to be such a huge deal for the United States. If the United States would quit shipping it out, get that Canadian pipeline going, open up ANWAR, expand offshore drilling, and other things of that nature, the United States could be self sustaining on oil. There is absolutely no excuse in the world for the United States to be so dependent on foreign oil.

This is not true. Even the oil companies know this. The US oil production has turned up recently but it is still well below the peak of 1970-1972, and the total demand is substantially higher.

It's time to bring back domestic manufacturing, domestic steel, domestic everything. It's come to the point where the United States has got to become independent and self-sustaining in order to survive.

Sure, but oil comes from facts of geology. The US areas have been explored and exploited with the maximum technology longer than anywhere else, much of it is gone. The US depleted its conventional oil earlier than anybody else, and it will do so with its shale oil--in not too long the shale revolution will be over in the US.

I don't know if steel is so critical (we aren't building massive cities like China) but agree 100% on the high-tech stuff--we have lost much of the intermediate industrial base necessary to support high tech manfacturing that we used to have. Now they have to make in Asia just because the networks of the companies and expertise has been abandoned elsewhere.

pheonix358

Whilst spending more than a decade in Iraqi, the US was pumping oil like there was no tomorrow.

In Iraq? Iraqi oil production has now been increasing thanks to the increasing strategically secure situation and investment. And the Iraqi government has been getting 100% of the proceeds, and the US 0%.

Gulf War I was different---the Saudi's paid for their defense financially and with oil (though not at a net profit to USA).

I know this is an oil based energy thread but,

Oil is still being produced here. And if it did come down to an economic oil bombshell everybody is overlooking one major factor in energy production, not oil, but coal.

While the environmentalists have demonized coal and now it is a "bad thing", which if we don't need it, it is.

But necessity trumps "tree hugging" in these circumstances.

If absolutely needed the US can basically ramp up coal production over night. We already have the infrastructure to do it.

Would it hurt "climate change". Honestly desperate times call for desperate measures and climate change would be a back burner issue until the populace can be comfortable enough to really give a damned about the climate instead of putting food on the table and heating their homes to survive the winter.

Here in Illinois we have enough coal reserves to fuel the entire nation of the USA for 200 years.

I'm not at all saying we should burn it for 200 years, but it is here and if needed we could use it.

Again, I know that the "evil polluters club die hard haters" will lash out at this comment, but I assure you those in power would implement coal production as a means to produce energy.

Although coal is presently being downsized, in an energency we could use this to our temporary advantage. I want to put TEMPORARY in there because it does not have to be permanent.

Never underestimate the power of our coal reserves.

I like how some of you get all giddy about the u.s collapsing but looking at my infant daughter and what this would mean for hundreds of millions of people and really the reach would be so much further, you can understand why I can't share your enthusiasm. You'll take China over us, fine, considering our proximity ill take their friendly waves over the hugs you Euros will get.

reply to post by Arnie123

Here you go again Arnie123 asking someone for a link please, can you please provide one link give some substance to your opinion

reply to post by JewelOfDenial
Totally agree with you. Do all these people beating there chests realise the servere consequences of what they are saying for either war or economic collapse that would probally lead to war. Have they looked at their partners their children the rest of their family and friends and realised the consquences for all of them. Yes the western countries may devastate china , russia and iran but most of western europe would not be habbitable and the usa etc would be almost destroyed the people dead or sick with radiation poisoning. Famine, desease and radiation sickness taking hold of many of the survivers. An absolute living hell for most while the elite sat comfortable in their bunkers . Even in just economic collapse many would die of stavation and the rioting and looting that would occur.

The usa can stop the decline economically, enviromentally and morally by going back to its constitution and creating
a central bank that is distanced from both the government and private interests and overseen by an honest and forthwrite audit committee and also staying out of other countries affairs. This is not going to happen with the current bunch of parasites that are in charge. Countries do not appreciate being looted for their resources and having their citizens murdered.

keenasbro
reply to post by Arnie123

 

Here you go again Arnie123 asking someone for a link please, can you please provide one link give some substance to your opinion

edit on 6-4-2014 by keenasbro because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-4-2014 by keenasbro because: Ii

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I don't need to. We have excellent examples already of why this thread is moot, several of my fellow posters presented the gold.
Like a previous user stated, reading this thread one could see you embracing BRICS nations and the fall of the Petro dollar, thus the full on destruction of the US economy, which in turn will ripple across the world with devastating effects. I too look at my 1yr old daughter and believe if that is what you want, then by all means, continue.

The Substance you want is already here.

Ill tell you what, the aftermath would create a power vacuum. China will, IMHO, might be able to weather this should they stay on the sidelines.
Then the south china sea is there's....including everything in it, to include Australia.
They will soon become the head of the BRICS and vast control of every single energy source near China, its cast population that didn't die off from starvation from the aftermath would spread out in a desperate attempt to claim any and all under the guise of nationlism.

So please, continue to single me out, I welcome your criticism.

BTW, I asked for links supporting the theft if gold and oil that has the US has been accused of.
As for providing links for THIS thread, like I said before, I don't need to, We got awesome members who have provided that, substance can the least be my opinion on the subject, but links do help, I agree.