Report: Shooting at Fort Hood; Multiple Injuries UPDATE2: Four dead, 16 injured...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


It was a 45 S&W...he purchased it legally and it was not registered on base as it should have been. No release on how much ammo he had...

matafuchs
Maybe he was just a loony bastard but he had a lot to lose with the wife and kids. If someone is in this situation, and you are going to kill yourself anyways and do not want help, drive out in the desert and eat the barrel. May sound harsh but it would have saved the lives of those innocent soldiers.

I'm struggling with the logic of asking someone under mental duress, or suffering from mental illness to do something rational on behalf of others... I suggest saying the above quote out loud, and see if it makes sense... I fear you may need to repeat that exercise to allow it to sink in...

On a note of accuracy of fact regarding this case, Spec4 Ivan Lopez was seeking treatment for his self reported condition, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the help he was given, contributed to the unfortunate events of April 2, 2014.

reply to post by 3shadesofblack

Reportedly, he shot in one, left that building and got into a car and kept shooting while driving to another building. Then went into the second building and shot some more.

matafuchs
It was a 45 S&W...he purchased it legally and it was not registered on base as it should have been. No release on how much ammo he had...

I'm aware it was a S&W .45 ACP The question is, was it the striker fired M&P or a 1911 model. My money is on the M&P, the 1911 models are a bit on the spendy side.

Regarding the amount of ammo he had, that is easy... Enough...

As far as registering a firearm on a military base, that only applies to people living on base in base housing... Single service members in barracks or quarters have to surrender their arms to base security. From all reports I've seen, Spec4 Ivan Lopez was living off base, and would have no legitimate reason or ability to take a personal firearm on base, registering wouldn't be an option, only surrendering at the gate to base security. Obviously, he didn't follow that requirement...

Looks like he may have had motive or at least some rage/anger at the military.

Lopez’s mother Carmen Lopez died in Puerto Rico last year, and he was enraged at the Army for at first refusing to let him attend her services, a childhood pal told El Nuevo Dia, a Puerto Rican newspaper.

Most of us have probably seen the stories of people being almost zombified when taking Ambien as well so that may have been a factor as well.

He was also on medication for his problems, including Ambien for a sleep disorder. NY Post

reply to post by Idiosonic

"Shooter was receiving treatment & medication for 'depression, anxiety & other psychiatric complaints'. SO HOW DID HE BUY A GUN?" I agree with this 100%

With the laws already in place it is 'illegal' for people with 'mental issues' to buy guns.

reply to post by Mirthful Me


Some report yesterday said it was a 1911 frame, but it isn't really significant. You can get a decent off-brand 1911 for $450 new, and sometimes a better brand for that price used. I bought my Springfield for that price, although it was many years ago.

Still, any 45 caliber is not the ideal gun for a mass shooting. 9 mm would have held more rounds, made more penetration in the buildings, been easier to shoot, and easier to find ammo.

Moving from building to building and shooting at more than one location does not sound like a psychopath to me. It sounds like a planned attack. It sounds methodical. There is a huge risk in getting in the vehicle and driving elsewhere while emergency personnel are descending on the base. He had to have a target there.

Edit:

Just realized I contradicted myself. I said it was a planned attack, and I also said the weapon was not the ideal weapon for a planned attack.

I guess I should just go ahead and spit out my crazy theory. I believe the shooter was a patsy of course, and he had a specific target or 2 or 3 or 4. He used the .45 because it was the best chance of killing his target, he shot everyone else as coverup, or to satisfy some other public relations agenda, or maybe just for the hell of it, since he was about to self-destruct once the mission was done anyway.

Sounds cuckoo, but these situations are cuckoo.

3shadesofblack
Some report yesterday said it was a 1911 frame, but it isn't really significant. You can get a decent off-brand 1911 for $450 new, and sometimes a better brand for that price used. I bought my Springfield for that price, although it was many years ago.

Then it wouldn't have been a S&W, now would it?

S&W 1911

Still, any 45 caliber is not the ideal gun for a mass shooting. 9 mm would have held more rounds, made more penetration in the buildings, been easier to shoot, and easier to find ammo.

I didn't know there is "an ideal gun" for a mass shooting... I've learned something new.

As someone who has been shooting for 40 years, and carries a gun daily, I've never used "building penetration" as a criteria for caliber/weapon selection. It will be interesting to see what his ammo choice actually was, if it is revealed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was WWB.

Moving from building to building and shooting at more than one location does not sound like a psychopath to me. It sounds like a planned attack. It sounds methodical. There is a huge risk in getting in the vehicle and driving elsewhere while emergency personnel are descending on the base. He had to have a target there.

I'm not prepared to disagree with any of that.

reply to post by Mirthful Me


Not necessarily "building" penetration, just penetration in general. I carry frangible ammunition specifically so I don't overpenetrate and hit an unintended target. If I were planning a mass shooting, my choice would be the opposite. I would use 9mm x 19 Ball Ammo, and I would use a frame that allowed me maximum magazine capacity.

Of course there is an ideal gun for a mass shooting, why wouldn't there be? There is an ideal gun for every occasion, but they start to get heavy if you carry them all, LOL!

When the investigation is said and done, none of this will be relevant, because, just like Newtown, the final story will be lone nut, and there was no way to prevent it, except maybe to reduce our liberties, just a little, in some small area that the majority can agree with. Death of liberty by a 1000 cuts.

neo96
reply to post by Idiosonic

 

"Shooter was receiving treatment & medication for 'depression, anxiety & other psychiatric complaints'. SO HOW DID HE BUY A GUN?" I agree with this 100%

With the laws already in place it is 'illegal' for people with 'mental issues' to buy guns.

Is it?

Please elaborate on the steps necessary to purchase a firearm in Texas.

Anyone requiring drugs to do their job in the military, doesn't need to be in the military. Just my opinion of course.

double post

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Take your pick:

en.wikipedia.org...

Brady bill

www.ncsl.org...

www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us...

Ambien is the only drug they're admitting he was on? $100 says he was also on SSRIs and they're conveniently not stating it because of all of the other shooters on it as well.

neo96
With the laws already in place it is 'illegal' for people with 'mental issues' to buy guns.

~Lucidity
Is it?

Please elaborate on the steps necessary to purchase a firearm in Texas.

The mental health issue is addressed on BATFE Form 4473 question 11f.

f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective
(which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful
authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs)
OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?(See Instructions for Question 11.f.)

Every firearm purchased in a business (like a gun store) transaction (so not a two party private sale) a BATFE Form 4473 must be filled out regardless of state of residence or purchase, or any other standing. Spec4 Ivan Lopez did not meet the exclusionary criteria for question 11f.

I would point to question 11e, the question that is constantly lied to, and lying on the BATFE Form 4473 in any manner is a felony... Now if the BATFE would only enforce that...

But that is another topic, for another thread...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


Glad you are aware. It does not matter what model it was a 45. They are loud and have small magazines. Enough said. Unless he had extended mags to shoot almost 20 people, unless a great freakin shot, he had to reload multiple times. This requires thinking it out...planning...not an Ambien induced suicide as we are being fed. He fired, got in a car...went to another location...fired some more rounds. This is not crazy...it is calculated.

I do not have to re read my statement. I mean it. I know quite a few people who have decided it was better without them around and NO manner of help could stop them. He could have driven out the the desert and just left a note. There is more as there will always be.

As far as the type of gun in a mass shooting, they are all very similar if you research them. 9mm is the most common used as well as a type of AR variant. Not to many packing a 40 SW unless maybe you are attacking a police station.

This is just another way to say that anyone with PTSD or a mental issue(even if not diagnosed) should not have a handgun. So if my parent dies and I take an anti anxiety for a month that means i cannot purchase a gun? According to the government wants it does...

reply to post by Mirthful Me


LOL don't even get me started on that ATF form.

11b.

. Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony , or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year?

Most tickets that get issued by the police, speeding,jaywalking,parking etc can land a person in 'prison' for more than a year.

~Lucidity
...Please elaborate on the steps necessary to purchase a firearm in Texas.

I don't have any...but, I have a friend who would normally wait until approached by someone he knew...
...walk to their car, where they would open the trunk lid...and, haggle until they agreed on a price.
I always thought it odd...
I even asked him, once - "What if they're trying to ditch a weapon that's been used in commission of a crime?"
He shrugged it off with - "I ask them, and if they say it hasn't - it's their fault, not mine."
Aside from that, I don't know what the 'legal' steps would be.

reply to post by Mirthful Me


Gun Control Act of 1968

Prohibted persons:

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution

20 years later they made the same 'law' over:

Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;

Brady Bill

And here it is 2014 and they will probably make the same law for the 3rd time.

WanDash
I even asked him, once - "What if they're trying to ditch a weapon that's been used in commission of a crime?"
He shrugged it off with - "I ask them, and if they say it hasn't - it's their fault, not mine."

That's laughable... And incorrect...

Hope he has an excellent attorney...