Report: Shooting at Fort Hood; Multiple Injuries UPDATE2: Four dead, 16 injured...

reply to post by Idiosonic


Unfortunately I can't disagree with you. I wish I could, because your post makes me angry.

BUT, Piers Morgan did have his say, via Twitter, and instead of pointing out the obvious issue, which is an unarmed military base, he decided to say that good guys with guns would not have prevented anything, because the shooter was a good guy with a gun, right up until he turned into a bad guy.

Piers is wrong of course, and 1000 good guys with guns, that are still good guys, trump the 1 guy that turned bad. If the military personnel were appropriately armed, this would have been a shooting with one or two injuries or deaths instead of 20.

CNN calling the families that live on the base "brave". Brave?

A brave family is one living in some city in a now gang overrun and controlled neighborhood that police are too afraid to enter.

old_god
reply to post by Bilk22

 

I think this is the justification...to prevent a civil uprising, supported by disillusioned military personnel and those of the military complex who do not agree to the neocon agenda, the power elect will take away any chance of a violent uprising.

Think about it, when the boots go down on the ground it will be Iraq 3.0 in the US, powerless people being subdued by their own elect unable to defend themselves.

Yeah the story seems to fit that agenda now that they're claiming he was on meds. However the guy never saw combat so it will be difficult to make the connection they want. But I do see why Shepard Smith cut off Gretta Van Sustrand when she was asking about the FBI's information about a recruit jihad. That wasn't the story they wanted the MSM to sell. It's the "demented" military they're after to prevent them from holding weapons in civilian life.

Sorry to interrupt your dick swinging contests to talk about human life, but I've finally been able to reach my friend on base. Such a relief, thanks for the support guys.

Seeing an event effect me so closely has me seriously reconsidering a lot of the rhetoric I use when speculating about events such as these.

reply to post by 3shadesofblack


Piers is right and wrong in his tweets
"Shooter was receiving treatment & medication for 'depression, anxiety & other psychiatric complaints'. SO HOW DID HE BUY A GUN?" I agree with this 100%

"Why does this keep happening in our country?' - what many Americans ask about mass shootings. Well, because you do nothing about it."
He is right about that aswell

But. Good guys with guns (soilders) would have helped this case

We do not have a gun issue in the United States. We have a mental health issue.

Second line for my first post. (been lurking here since 9/11 and finally created an account)

roadgravel
CNN calling the families that live on the base "brave". Brave?

A brave family is one living in some city in a now gang overrun and controlled neighborhood that police are too afraid to enter.

Actually neither one of those scenarios is brave. Both are just unfortunate circumstances where people have no other choice. If someone intentionally moves into said city to open a church or a community outreach, that might be brave, but the poor folks that live there and can't afford to move are not brave, they are just stuck.

Honestly, I have a hard time finding any examples of brave these days. Sometimes it applies to military or firemen or police, but all too often their policies and protocol prevent them from acting bravely. Firemen will often wait outside a burning building, and police will often wait for backkup or resort to deadly force instead of facing down a threat and deescalating. Military are immersed into situations where they have no choice but to act brave, but I don't think very many of them are anticipating those situations when they sign up. They are more than likely signing up for the GI Bill, income, and healthcare.

The examples of "brave" or "heroic" these days are few and far between, and the terms are tossed about so often that they have become meaningless.

TheTalentedMrBryant
Sorry to interrupt your dick swinging contests to talk about human life, but I've finally been able to reach my friend on base. Such a relief, thanks for the support guys.

Seeing an event effect me so closely has me seriously reconsidering a lot of the rhetoric I use when speculating about events such as these.

glad to hear your buddy is alright.

as to reconsidering...how so?

reply to post by Daedalus


No, try again. think 10 times less less gun crimes per 100,000 people (mass shootings, gang shootings, accidental shootings, the lot)


And what about that comment is incorrect

Idiosonic
reply to post by 3shadesofblack

 

Piers is right and wrong in his tweets
"Shooter was receiving treatment & medication for 'depression, anxiety & other psychiatric complaints'. SO HOW DID HE BUY A GUN?" I agree with this 100%

"Why does this keep happening in our country?' - what many Americans ask about mass shootings. Well, because you do nothing about it."
He is right about that aswell

But. Good guys with guns (soilders) would have helped this case

piers is actually even more wrong....

yes, armed security on base would have ended this quickly. until we get concrete confirmation of exactly what "mental issues" he had, and what medications he was on (if any) for them, his idiotic statement about "how did he buy a gun" is invalid...

and as we all know, his idea of "doing something about" these shootings, is to disarm everyone....which is the wrong answer too...

let's just face it, he's an idiot hack, who was booed out of his own country, came over here, and made an ass of himself..he's irrelevant, and he should just keep his idiotic opinions to himself...

Daedalus

Idiosonic
reply to post by 3shadesofblack

 

and as we all know, his idea of "doing something about" these shootings, is to disarm everyone....which is the wrong answer too...

let's just face it, he's an idiot hack, who was booed out of his own country, came over here, and made an ass of himself..he's irrelevant, and he should just keep his idiotic opinions to himself...

No, it doesn't matter what he would do is, the point is you still do nothing, not a trial run, no "return in 30 days if laws are faulty" no nothing

And Piers spoke his mind and stood up to the gun nuts who scare everyone else (search "alex jones" on piers morgan, does alex sound like someone we should listen to) His opinions right or wrong, offered a difference of opinion to the Alex Jones type, he actually tried to change America, stop the murders, stop the madness. but he was laughed off as crazy and guys like Alex Jones are recognized as perfectly sane individuals. Thats wrong

reply to post by Daedalus


Piers is an idiot, I've never liked him, even before the gun issue became popular, but just to clarify, the base DOES have armed security. Armed security is not a very good deterrent. They are uniformed, open carry, and stationed at known locations, so the bad guy either avoids the, or shoots them first. Simple.

What would have improved this situation would be to allow any base personnel to carry their weapons, open or concealed, their choice. When bad guy wants to do harm, it is much more difficult when you can't identify where the toughest resistance lies.

Gunfighting lore from the dawn of firearms proves that threat detection and efficient elimination is the key to winning the gunfight. From the bad guy's perspective, if you can't detect the threats, and you can't eliminate the threats, then you are not going to last long in the gunfight. If random people are armed, then the bad guy's reign will not last very long, and if he is smart, he will choose not to start the fight at all.

Random concealed carry is the deterrent, not armed security.

reply to post by Daedalus


Thanks friend.

Usually (and quite thankfully) when a tragedy occurs, it is neither in close proximity to me nor does it effect my loved ones. The beauty of the internet is that I can compile information from all kinds of different sources and form an opinion on the issue, like we all do here.

That makes me feel like I'm part of the situation, doesn't it do that to you guys too? I think that's a good thing. Even though we all often dissent on our opinions we feel like we're doing our part to be a part of the solution and we take for granted just how far removed we might actually be from the situation.

And even though I'm certain that none of you mean disrespect to my friend, that's what it felt like when I was reading the posts. Here I am frantically calling my buddy hoping that he'll answer while keyboard warriors are talking about Muslim fanaticism, Barack Obama, etc. etc.

It just made me think about the times that I've speculated or thrown my unwarranted two cents in on an issue while somebody somewhere was DIRECTLY effected by said issue and I didn't even stop for a second to consider how they felt.

reply to post by Daedalus


You should not assume that a person may be from England because they have an anti-rights approach to an armed citizenry. I am British as the day is long, and rue the fact that I am not allowed to carry a sword when about my business in my own homeland. Just because I would prefer a sword over a gun, does not mean that I do not fully support your rights as an American to bear arms, nor does it mean that I do not understand the necessity for doing so, especially when you consider the centralisation of power in your nation.

Idiosonic
reply to post by Daedalus

 

No, try again. think 10 times less less gun crimes per 100,000 people (mass shootings, gang shootings, accidental shootings, the lot)

what? ok, so then you're from england, and you're trying to extol the virtues of having a disarmed, defenseless population?

it doesn't matter what tool is used to commit crime....crime is crime.. why do you never hear about "cricket bat crime", or "screwdriver crime"? they're a significant portion of crime....the term "gun crime" is just a term used by idiots who want to try to demonize firearms, and fool other idiots into believing they're somehow more dangerous, or inherently evil than, say, a bomb, or a car......deny ignorance, man...

And what about that comment is incorrect

ok, let's pick it apart, shall we?

This is why America is laughed at around the world.

actually, we're not laughed at...we're mostly hated....and that's mostly because our government is a bunch of assholes, who think it's their purpose in life to meddle in the affairs of other countries, instead of taking proper care of their own..

You can have weapons that belong on a battlefield

really, what weapons are those?

in the hands of rednecks who have no respect or knowledge about the weapon and they just leave it out for a kid to shoot someone or themselves

yes, because all americans are rednecks, and all americans are irresponsible.... -rolls eyes-

but a weapon cannot be in the hands of soldiers who actually have the proper training and respect respect for the weapon. lack of common sense.

soldiers are people, just like the rest of us...respect for the weapon has nothing to do with it, it's ALL training....whether or not you agree with the methodology, you are trained to handle your weapon a certain way, and you're conditioned to do it that way..

To bad Piers Morgan got cancelled, he would of had a field day with this.

Piers Morgan is a pathetic, irrelevant, blowhard, with too much idiotic opinion, nearly no factual information, and absolutely no respect for this country...he should be deported...

Also, just watch. There will be lots of heated debate about the legality of certain guns and certain people owning guns.

only if the current administration uses the poor dead people to push more illegal restrictions on the rights of the people...

but as always nothing will happen until the next shooting when you just repeat the debate and once again nothing happens. it is a bad cycle America has fallen into

just because you don't see it, doesn't mean nothing's happened....

this really is all off-topic....maybe you should start a new thread, to bash firearms and their owners....i'd be happy to debate you there..

Piers Morgan tweets... I wonder how long it will be before that venue for his ignorant drivel is rescinded? The elephant in the room isn't Republican gun love, it's the miserable approach to mental health in the United States (I won't comment on any other countries current mental health infrastructure). In the sixties and the seventies there were a series of legal decisions that basically emptied mental patients from institutions onto our streets, and has made it very difficult to curtail the activities of the mentally ill.

It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue...

List of United States Supreme Court cases involving mental health

Landmark Supreme Court Ruling, O'Connor v. Donaldson

It's funny how there are so many that will fall all over themselves trying to revoke the guaranteed civil right of the Second Amendment to the entire population, but will allow a small segment unfettered opportunity to do what they will within our society and then blame an inanimate object...

Actually, it's not funny at all...

TrueBrit
reply to post by Daedalus

 

You should not assume that a person may be from England because they have an anti-rights approach to an armed citizenry. I am British as the day is long, and rue the fact that I am not allowed to carry a sword when about my business in my own homeland. Just because I would prefer a sword over a gun, does not mean that I do not fully support your rights as an American to bear arms, nor does it mean that I do not understand the necessity for doing so, especially when you consider the centralisation of power in your nation.

sorry if i offended you, matey....

i know not ALL english citizens are anti-americans with guns....BUT, for the purposes of conversation on this board, the majority of the anti-gun rhetoric comes either from citizens of the crown, or californians....i know, it sucks, but i can't help that....

reply to post by Idiosonic

he actually tried to change America, stop the murders, stop the madness. but he was laughed off as crazy and guys like Alex Jones are recognized as perfectly sane individuals. Thats wrong

Piers didn't try to change anything, he just talked, just like the rest of them. And I think you would have hard time finding anyone outside of ATS that things Alex Jones is sane, LOL! I don't even think Glenn Beck is sane, and he is the tame version of Alex Jones.

The problem is too many of us listen to too many of those talking heads, and we formulate our opinions based upon their crazy opinions without realizing that they are just crazy opinions. Just because you have a TV show, or a Radio Show does not make your opinion more valid. In fact, quite the opposite. If you have business surviving based upon your opinion, then you necessarily push the issues, embrace the controversy, and comment and speculate on popular topics instead of topics you might be educated or passionate about.

Alex Jones is FAR crazier than Morgan, and most Americans realize this. Hell, Jesse Ventura and Allen West aren't too far behind, and they are well-respected politicians who I happen to LOVE, but they are still cuckoo.

Idiosonic
No, it doesn't matter what he would do is, the point is you still do nothing, not a trial run, no "return in 30 days if laws are faulty" no nothing

And Piers spoke his mind and stood up to the gun nuts who scare everyone else (search "alex jones" on piers morgan, does alex sound like someone we should listen to) His opinions right or wrong, offered a difference of opinion to the Alex Jones type, he actually tried to change America, stop the murders, stop the madness. but he was laughed off as crazy and guys like Alex Jones are recognized as perfectly sane individuals. Thats wrong

no, alex is a bit nutty too...

he tried to sway opinion to the notion that being disarmed, defenseless targets was a bloody good idea.....complete bollocks....

he was laughed off, because he's a moron, who doesn't think about the consequences that would come from his ideas being implemented..he's also completely full of himself.....

the only reason alex jones got on his show, is because they knew alex would go off, if prodded the right way, and they wanted him to blow up on air, so they could use it as propaganda, and say that "this is the face of american gun owners"....never mind when ted nugent was on the show...he completely obliterated morgan...and so did jesse ventura..

piers morgan is a dumbass, plain and simple