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Hobby Lobby Hypocrisy

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posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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dawnstar

Sure some companies pitch in some of the money if you happen to be one of the fortunate that actually have a job that wishes to do so but I've never had a job where I wasn't paying a significant portion of those premiums!



This displays the common misconceptions on Employer provided Health Insurance.

The Company pays a large portion for the employment offered benefit. Not just a little bit of money.




posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


I think it depends on the companies. Not to mention most don't provide crap for the families of the employees.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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dawnstar
reply to post by macman
 


I think it depends on the companies. Not to mention most don't provide crap for the families of the employees.





What the hell are you talking about???

Employer provided Health Insurance is just that.
If it is offered as a benefit or WORKING there, the company covers a large portion of the premiums. The employee pays for the remainder.

If you work at McDonalds, you probably aren't offered the best health insurance, as the position does not justify the expense. For an employee making $9 an hour, the costs associated with their employment is usually double what the pay is.

I'm pretty tired of people chiming in on topics where the understanding of how these operate isn't there.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by macman
 

Umm let's see my first job was minimum wage in the late 70's.
I didn't pay anything. I don't remember any deductable. And the insurance paid for 80% of the bills.
I worked at my last job for 7 years. And it covered families also. Matter of fact most of the insurance provided by the employer covered families also!
Each one of those years the insurance people would come in and they would spend hours trying to figure out the best route for both employer and employee (I have no gripes really with my employers.) The bill was just so outrageous!! He really had no choice. The employees ended up taking on a bigger and bigger portion of the cost. And like I was saying he was trying! I've had other jobs where the cost of their insurance was more than I would make on the job!

Look at this point in the game I am only looking at one thing. It's like a scale. On one side of the scale is the givers. They are giving more in taxes every year than they are taking in any benefits. On the other side of the scale are the takers. They for whatever reason and mind you they may be acting as responsibly as they possibly can, are taking more in benefits than they are paying in. To have that scale balance on the side of the givers would be great but I am not even sure if that is what we have now! To have that scale balance on the side of the takers will we lose!!
We ship out the higher paying jobs and replace them with lower paying jobs we lose!
We put boulders in the way of those who are trying to be responsible we lose!!
And increasing the cost of birth control for the individual is a boulder I am sorry!
People gripe about how we should be responsible. Well I am sorry but choosing to use birth control is the responsible thing to do if one's budget isn't going to handle a new mouth to feed not to mention the cost of the medical care involved in the birth the time the women is off work and childcare.

And for those who are in that spot just what is the alternative to birth control? Oh ya if you don't want to have kids just don't have the sex!!
Only...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Those two threads kind of tell me that that could be the least responsible thing a women could do not to mention it could be rather dangerous for some!

edit on 16-4-2014 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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dawnstar
Umm let's see my first job was minimum wage in the late 70's.
I didn't pay anything. I don't remember any deductable. And the insurance paid for 80% of the bills.

SO, the money came from somewhere. It was basically 6 to one, and half dozen to another. The Health Insurance company still got their money, but during that time, they weren't forced to provide half the crap that they are now. So...costs have risen.


dawnstar
I worked at my last job for 7 years. And it covered families also. Matter of fact most of the insurance provided by the employer covered families also!
Each one of those years the insurance people would come in and they would spend hours trying to figure out the best route for both employer and employee (I have no gripes really with my employers.) The bill was just so outrageous!! He really had no choice. The employees ended up taking on a bigger and bigger portion of the cost. And like I was saying he was trying! I've had other jobs where the cost of their insurance was more than I would make on the job!

As such with every other company. Since the Govt got heavily involved with the industry, costs have risen.



dawnstar
Look at this point in the game I am only looking at one thing. It's like a scale. On one side of the scale is the givers. They are giving more in taxes every year than they are taking in any benefits. On the other side of the scale are the takers. They for whatever reason and mind you they may be acting as responsibly as they possibly can, are taking more in benefits than they are paying in.

How can someone honestly stated the takers are being responsible when they are in fact taking from something, that was first stolen from someone else.
Again, it is piss poor life choices that the tax payer must fund??? That is insane.




dawnstar
To have that scale balance on the side of the givers would be great but I am not even sure if that is what we have now! To have that scale balance on the side of the takers will we lose!!

And the whole fact that the scale exists is the issue. If you don't earn it, you don't get it. Period. All the way from food to house.


dawnstar
We ship out the higher paying jobs and replace them with lower paying jobs we lose!

What the hell?? I'm in one of those higher paying jobs and don't see them being replaced.


dawnstar
We put boulders in the way of those who are trying to be responsible we lose!!

Sure do. I'm punished financial because I work harder than most people.


dawnstar
And increasing the cost of birth control for the individual is a boulder I am sorry!

So, having someone fund their own life decisions is placing a boulder in front of them??? I guess you are walking along with Pelosi on the statement that unemployment will grant those that want to paint, the time to paint because the Govt will just give them stuff.
Didn't you just pitch responsibility just above this??


dawnstar
People gripe about how we should be responsible. Well I am sorry but choosing to use birth control is the responsible thing to do if one's budget isn't going to handle a new mouth to feed not to mention the cost of the medical care involved in the birth the time the women is off work and childcare.

NO. Being responsible is not looking for someone to fund YOUR life choices. If you don't want children, maybe you should keep your legs closed. Or......pay for that decision either at the front or the back.


dawnstar
And for those who are in that spot just what is the alternative to birth control? Oh ya if you don't want to have kids just don't have the sex!!
Only...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Those two threads kind of tell me that that could be the least responsible thing a women could do not to mention it could be rather dangerous for some!


WOW, you got more excuses than most people here.

Don't want kids, don't have sex. Very simple really.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:01 PM
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didn't even go check out the threads did ya??
well one kind of gives the impression that many feel that to refuse a spouse sex is grounds for a divorce.
Oh ya then we can all pitch in so the gov't can play husband to more people!!
the other one someone actually goes as far as to say the the husband should beat his wife into submission if it's legal in the Ukraine!
ya!! real responsible do something to really tick the guy off and then after he beats you to a pulp the kids you do have can find someone else to take care of them!!!

One of those lower paying jobs that I had consisted of transporting tons of magnetic stock to the printer lifting it onto a table and then unloading off a bin after it was printed and stacking it. Each pallet weighed over a ton and was pulled by a pallet jack (it's how I initially hurt my foot I didn't manage to stop the pallet from rolling and it crashed into my ankle!) and we'd run around six or seven pallets in a day!
Work=the amount of force used times the distance!
so well I would venture to guess the work involved with moving over six tons of magnetic stock three times is quite abit!!
Much more than shuffling some light weight folders across the desk!
Or playing golf with your buddies on the golf course.
My point???
Just because a job is higher paying doesn't mean that they are working harder and just because it's a lower paying job doesn't mean they aren't working hard!
And
I am not making excuses just pointing out that your solution only leads to bigger problems!

edit on 16-4-2014 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 02:06 PM
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dawnstar
didn't even go check out the threads did ya??
well one kind of gives the impression that many feel that to refuse a spouse sex is grounds for a divorce.
Oh ya then we can all pitch in so the gov't can play husband to more people!!
the other one someone actually goes as far as to say the the husband should beat his wife into submission if it's legal in the Ukraine!
ya!! real responsible do something to really tick the guy off and then after he beats you to a pulp the kids you do have can find someone else to take care of them!!!

Really?????
So, your ground for me funding your birth control is that of divorce due to withholding sex and a "sex strike" in Ukraine as your argument base?
Do I even need to respond to that, or can you actually realize just how weak that argument is?



dawnstar
One of those lower paying jobs that I had consisted of transporting tons of magnetic stock to the printer lifting it onto a table and then unloading off a bin after it was printed and stacking it. Each pallet weighed over a ton and was pulled by a pallet jack (it's how I initially hurt my foot I didn't manage to stop the pallet from rolling and it crashed into my ankle!) and we'd run around six or seven pallets in a day!
Work=the amount of force used times the distance!
so well I would venture to guess the work involved with moving over six tons of magnetic stock three times is quite abit!!
Much more than shuffling some light weight folders across the desk!

So, you know what I do then, work wise. Just shuffling papers I guess.
Never mind the fact that I did the grunt style work already and have earned my way up the position I have now. I put the time in already on the physical side of things. Now I get to work out my brain, instead of lugging stuff around.
I also do the physical aspect for my business. So please, don't look for sympathy from me. Been there...Done that....Was smart enough to learn something so I didn't have to do manual labor.



dawnstar

Or playing golf with your buddies on the golf course.
My point???
Just because a job is higher paying doesn't mean that they are working harder and just because it's a lower paying job doesn't mean they aren't working hard!

You can judge me and my work, but not yours.

Very very highbrow.





dawnstar
And
I am not making excuses just pointing out that your solution only leads to bigger problems!


No, not really. Sounds like some people will have personal problems. But that in turn doesn't make it my problem.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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You can judge me and my work, but not yours. Very very highbrow.
reply to post by macman
 


well weren't you just judging others people's work when you claimed to have worked harder than them??
you assume that because they might need a little bit of help they must not have worked hard.
Ya know a young kid could go to college for four years in nursing and then hold a job for a few years and make three times as much as someone who has worked his way as a machinist for over 40 years and reached the level of journeyman.
who worked harder in that case???



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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dawnstar

well weren't you just judging others people's work when you claimed to have worked harder than them??

By working hard, do you mean physical labor over brain usage? Or do you actually look at time spent during the day?
Here is the problem. People in the low end believe they work harder, because they do something physical all day. People in the high end believe that since they worked their way up, and put in longer days and require more thought behind what they do, work harder.



dawnstar

you assume that because they might need a little bit of help they must not have worked hard.

Where in Sam Hill did that come from.


dawnstar
Ya know a young kid could go to college for four years in nursing and then hold a job for a few years and make three times as much as someone who has worked his way as a machinist for over 40 years and reached the level of journeyman.
who worked harder in that case???


Who has the longer working day? Who puts in more during the day?



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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There's a difference between working hard and working smart!
Working hard isn't gonna get you very far working smart will!!
By working smart I mean finding solutions for problems in the workplace, having the initiative to learn about things that will put you into a better position in the company ect. You ain't working harder when you do this you are working smarter!!

I know both the machinist and the nurse in this case. The machinist was out as an apprentice back in the 70's and during that time he's worked sometimes 60 hours a week! And when the recessions came and that work dried up he did other things like drive truck, push ashpalt, roofing whatever he could find! He's now a journeyman a tool and die maker. And even if he worked an 80 hour week he wouldn't make as much as the nurse.

The nurse is maybe 3 years out of college have no idea how many hours she works. I know her work consists mostly with working with computers.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


SO, you can't work hard and smart then???

Seems to be you are caught up in the thought that only those that have a physical job work hard.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: macman
reply to post by dawnstar
 


SO, you can't work hard and smart then???

Seems to be you are caught up in the thought that only those that have a physical job work hard.


Hobby Lobby, for standing up for their beliefs, whether religious or otherwise, is not Hypocritical.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: rickynews

It is if their main supplier of crap is the chinese. Ya know the land of forced abortions for second children.
And there is much more to the christian belief system just the issue of birth control.
A christian is supposed to follow the laws of the land give unto ceaser and all that!
Marriage is regarded very highly by many christian sects. Heck one preacher even had a month long thing going on with his congregation. Have as much sex as you can through the month!!!
Only the idea of if you don't want babies you can't have sex would blow up quite a few marriages!
I am not that fond of abortions I just think that there is a place for them in our medical world and is the best option in some cases.
but ya know what those other types of birth control that hobby lobby is also against prevents many of those abortions!

And to be honest I think there is another moral idea that if it was adhered to by the business community would have prevented many of the problems we have today!
That would be the use of sound money and the idea that you pay an honest wage for a day's labor!

I don't believe that laws should have exclusions exemptions and special perks for certain groups!
I mean even if hobby lobby did get their exemption what about all those other believers out there whose tax money is going to fund birth control through medicaid? Why is hobby lobby's money protected but not theirs?? I reject the idea that they should get an exemption on that grounds! To protect them all we would have to take the coverage out of all insurance policies!
And what about all those working families out there whose insurance have been providing coverage for birth control for all this time.. What if they are like many people are and their money is barely covering their needs now? Is it really fair to them to have to sacrifice even more to scrounge up the money for that little pill that keeps them from becoming society's baby factories while the family's money is going to provide it free to the poor? What if it means giving up a few meals a week for the family??

What if they feel that they really couldn't handle another child either financially or emotionally?
What if the sacrifice that the mother would have to make to bring the child into the world is too great?
What if she feels that the risks are too great and just decides that not having sex is a better option and it causes a marriage to break up?

The free birth control was included in the insurance before obamacare and I would find it very surprising that hobby lobby didn't provide insurance coverage to their full time employees then!! I've checked out their website and they offer decent pay and health coverage on it! So I kind of thing they've been doing this all along!
What did their morality suddenly change??? I don't think so. I wouldn't find it surprising to find that some religious rights group has provided them with some kind of perk for doing this!

Hobby lobby is providing funds into the insurance pool
The insurance companies are and have been since before obamacare mandated by the gov't to include birth control within it's coverage.
Just like every taxpayer provides funds that into a pool of money and it used to provide not only birth control to the poor but also wars the establishment of a survelience state and so many other things that quite frankly is serving to harm us!

I don't see where anyone has the freedom to protect their morality in the current environment and I just don't feel that selecting this group or that and protecting them in this way will change a danged thing!


I this more than likely will
Possibly cause more abortions
Possibly cause a few deaths during childbirth
Possibly send some families into the "poor" category and thus increase the welfare burden
Possibly cause more divorces
Possibly cause many women to leave the workforce

None of these are in our best interest! Is Hobby Lobby's moral compass (wonder how badly they cheat on their tax returns??) reallly worth it?


edit on 18-4-2014 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 07:43 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: rickynews

It is if their main supplier of crap is the chinese. Ya know the land of forced abortions for second children.


Please identify the specific Chinese companies that are directly involved in the forced abortions industry in China, and for which you charge Hobby Lobby as doing business with.
edit on 18-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: rickynews

that is why I put the work if in the original op kind of insinuates that fact.
and if their main supplier is in china well the my assertion stands they are supporting the chinese with all their flaws
and they are also helping to destroy our economy and that is what has brought us to the point we are at!



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 08:03 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: rickynews

that is why I put the work if in the original op kind of insinuates that fact.
and if their main supplier is in china well the my assertion stands they are supporting the chinese with all their flaws
and they are also helping to destroy our economy and that is what has brought us to the point we are at!


That's a reach and cop-out. The truth is that neither you, nor the OP can produce any evidence of any specific Chinese companies that are in the forced abortion industry and which Hobby Lobby is directly doing business with, so you throw out there these baseless "incinuations" as if they are either based in truth, or reality or fact - which they are not. Hyperbole and baseless insinuations are what makes the notion that "Hobby Lobby is Hypocritical" a farce. This is nothing more than a desperate and dishonest smear campaign on an American company that happens to stand up to the misguided agenda of those who seek to alter reality by perpetuating a false narrative. Plain and simple.
edit on 18-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: rickynews

Below is a list of suppliers direct from china that hobby lobby does business with. The link will take you to the page where there are many more. Now you have the evidence of the specific Chinese companies that Hobby Lobby is doing business with
which neither hyperbole nor insinuations it is direct evidence that Hobby Lobby is Hypocritical.



suppliers

The home office is Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc., located in Oklahoma City, OK, so they do the purchasing and definitely know whom they purchase from.
edit on 18-4-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 10:00 AM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

I looked at that site and I take it that you did a search of chinese suppliers..
Can you do a search for US suppliers for hobby lobby.
I am curious about something and I kind of got the impression that it was a membership site and you needed to be a member to do a search

either that or my puter is more messed up than I thought!



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: rickynews

does it really matter if they are in the "forced abortion" industry???
Considering just how not good outsourcing was for our economy and these companies are in a country that has a strict one child policy and forces abortions onto it's citizens!!

Besides ain't no insurance companies in the "birth control" industry either.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

On the same site you can uncheck china and apply the filter for US distributors to get manufacturing sites for the US. There seems to be 6 listings out of 22 pages of suppliers.

22 pages of suppliers.
6 from US


edit on 18-4-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



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