After the two fiascos in the USA which saw the most flagrant examples of vote-rigging and electoral fixing in modern history,isn't it abit too fluad to point at Eukrain and criticize their election??....
When the Republican Party deploys electronic voting machines bought from Republican Party fundraisers who promised before the election to help the President to win, the OSCE observers describe it as localised and insignificant incidents. However, when the incompent stooge Yushchenko fails to win in the Ukraine, it is fraud.
The people of the Ukraine have voted for the continuaqtion of a close relationship with Russia, in the same sphere of influence, which makes sense.
The CIS mission and the Institute of Eastern European Countries monitoring the election declared that it was "legitimate" and "answers the norms of democracy and international law".
If the West has a problem with that - and it appears that "international law" is a concept with which certain countries have a problem to understand these days - too bad.
In plain English, If the West has a problem with that - and it appears that "international law" is a concept with which certain countries have a problem to understand these days - too bad.
In plain English, you can like it - or lump it...
100,000 fanatics, hooligans and trouble-makers in Independence Square, Kiev, fuelled by a few busloads of drunken layabouts from Western Ukraine with nothing better to do and looking for an adrenalin rush, do not represent the 43,7 million strong population of the country.
The reaction by the West to the defeat of their puppet candidate was as predictable as it was immature and meddlesome.
Mr Powell warned the government in Kiev of "consequences" for the US-Ukraine relationship.
Today, the United States stands with the people of Ukraine and their effort to ensure their democratic choice.
Indeed, this is a critical moment.....
Both Mr Yushchenko and Mr Yanukovych have suggested today that there may be a way to resolve this.
Vladimir Putin will meet the new head of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, in talks originally scheduled for the beginning of the month.Russia and the EU have differed sharply over Ukraine's troubled election.
Kremlin official Sergei Yastrzhembsky said he hoped the two sides would reach some understanding on the issue.....

Honestly ;I don't understand why all the pressure the whole media world is adding to an already Volotile situation..
Isn't the Iraqi War issue Enough....
Do we need to meddle with Russian regional politics.....

You couldn't make it up.

What did you expect? Humilty and honesty from the US?


No the US has, as an "inailienable right", the right to be as violent and hypercritical is it damn well pleases... oh and everyone else has to smile and bear it.

Just curious...were all of you angrily protesting the Brits that were calling and emailing Ohio voters and telling them to vote for Kerry?

Originally posted by Horus_Re
Do we need to meddle with Russian regional politics.....

Atleast Ukrainas parlament got the balls to claim the election not valid when cheat has been noticed.

Dr Speedo, you are right. But we, the highest and mightiest live with all kinds of fraud and are afraid to say anything. And if you say something you're crazy and belong in a padded cell.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Just curious...were all of you angrily protesting the Brits that were calling and emailing Ohio voters and telling them to vote for Kerry?

- No. Not I.

Mind you the story of what actually happened seemed to disappear in that one too.
As far as I can make out it was a group of undecided Ohio voters who agreed to take part in an exchange of emails with Brit readers of the Guardian newspaper.
When this 'came out' the only people 'angrily protesting' anybody were US republicans who then decided this kind of debate was 'beyond the pale'.

I just find George Dub-ya '2 seriously dodgy elections' himself Bush claiming anybody else's election is less than credible is simply breath-taking sheer affrontery!

This is just the regular hypocracy from the promised land, not the first time, not the last.

lets be reasonable, its so obvous to all ukarinans that there was massive cheating of both sides, what matters to the ruffly on half of the population, the ukrainian patriots who want nothing to do with russia, is that he dont like russia, same goes for the other half of the people, the russians in the east who despite what western media is trying to tell us, are not just a small minority, (have we seen any coverage from the eastern citys? no.) likes the other guy because he likes russia. the truth is that we will never get the true numbers, what we do have is a winner, say what you want about the way they both played.... lets see what happens when the EU shows its imperialistic ambissions, and how far the US will go on the count of lingering cold-war fears of a russia slowly coming out of the economical chaos after the fall of the USSR...



[edit on 27-11-2004 by disturbence]

Originally posted by disturbence
.... lets see what happens when the EU shows its imperialistic ambissions,

- Well that one's easy.
What 'imperialistic ambitions?
The EU doesn't have any 'imperialistic ambitions'.

I do wish people would make their minds up.

On the one hand the EU is a timid regional 'power' and on the other we're meant to be aggressively 'imperialistic'!

How about we are a European voluntary cooperative who aren't into 'forcing' anyone to do anything? Hmmm?

The Ukraine has not joined the EU and is not a part of the EU.
Ultimately their fate is their own, not ours.

NATO's ambitions are, however a very different matter.
There is a school of thought here in Europe which sees the USA attempting to deal Russia a large scale 'geo-political defeat' on Russia by prising the Ukraine away from Russia and into NATO or NATO's 'orbit'.
The USA would like to turn the Black sea into an American sea, it would be very useful to US control over oil pipelines etc etc.

Russia won't stand idly by and watch that happen though.....any more than the USA would see the Gulf of Mexico 'threatened' in a reverse but similar way.
(Jayzuss just think of the damage, fuss and tragedy over tiny Cuba! )

and how far the US will go on the count of lingering cold-war fears of a russia slowly coming out of the economical chaos after the fall of the USSR...

- What on earth has any of this got to do with the USA and the (long dead) 'cold war'?

Putin is 'dub-ya's' good friend, I wouldn't expect any great shakes from this vis the USA and Russia, but who knows with the neocon lunatics in charge and just given the boost of another 4yrs.

My bet is the Ukrainians will sort this out themselves. Hopefully with as little mess as possible.
But I really don't see Russia interested in getting mixed up in attempting to forceably subjugate the Ukraine again.
Once bitten and all that.

The USA's meddling is another matter.



[edit on 28-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]