King Vlad to invade Estonia next?

Cabin
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

I live in Estonia and to be honest, this newspiece makes me a bit worried about future. Although it has to be considered that Estonia is a member of EU as well as NATO, which makes it an incredibly risky target, so I highly doubt something similar to Ukraine is going to happen.

I do not say the Russian population is small one, there are a lot here since the country was occupied by Russians after WWII and as part of the Soviet integration process (russianisation) many were "shipped in". Roughly 25% out of whom majority is populating in the Eastern part or certain districts in the capital - large apartment building in the outskirts of the city built during the occupation period.

Linguistically Estonian is very different from Russian one, being very similar to Finnish. Schools (russian ones) as well as universities provide education in Russian. In schools (russian-ones) until the high-school (then certain subjects are in Estonian, although the local Russian student union wants it to go from mid-school. In universities, core subjects are also available in Russian. Generally Estonian-Russian youth are very open to learning the local language as well, as after all this is the official language. Most companies expect their employees to be bi-lingual, whether Estonians or Russians.

Although saying as if local russians are discriminated is pure bulls*it.

edit on 19-3-2014 by Cabin because: (no reason given)

Very well said. Thank you.
I've been multiple times in Estonia and I love it. Yes, estonian language is from different (non europian) group, but I've menage with my finnish. Have few very dear friends there and find that estonians are more open than finns.
Yes, there is russians in Estronia. Born there, all life living in Estonia. And many of them still have not estonian passports because they don't speak estonian (the same is in Latvia I think). Aging people have difficulty to learn new language.
I don't believe Putin to invade Baltic countries. This is hysterical propaganda.

MrSpad

bubab
reply to post by Cabin

 

Yeah, Russia is going to take on NATO, that will end well, you honestly think Putin is STUPID? Last time Russia tried to invade Finland they got their asses handed to them.

Putin is not going to attack NATO or the EU, he will stop NATO moving towards him yes, that is why Ukraine is in the mess it is, NATO Expansion.

My country is not in NATO, we don't give a frack about NATO, we are neutral, we are in Europe, we don't fear Russia.

What and who we DO fear, is America, their rendition flights and the risk they bring to our neutrality.

America does NOT respect our neutrality, they flew rendition CIA flights in our airspace and landed. America has NO respect for laws. That is a fact. If they did, they would have not used our airspace for illegal activities. Honestly Yanks don't give a frack about us here, except when it suits THEM and honestly, I don't give a frack about them, as long as they stay the HELL away from my country.

edit on 19-3-2014 by bubab because: (no reason given)

Granted Russia will target non NATO nations to start with. Places like Ukraine and Finland who though they could be sort of pro NATO but, not join hoping that would protect them are learning that being a quarter in is not the same as an attack on one is and attack on all. With what has happened in Crimea I would not be suprised to see NATO fast track some waiting members, Bosnia, Montenegro, Georgia, and Macedonia. And along with that I would suprised to Finland and Sweden also become full members before Russia decides to grab a few things from them.

Why you people keep perpetuating this piece of disinfo? Do you have any sources to support your claims of russian expansionism, or is it just more rectal steam?

Yusomad

MrSpad

bubab
reply to post by Cabin

 

Yeah, Russia is going to take on NATO, that will end well, you honestly think Putin is STUPID? Last time Russia tried to invade Finland they got their asses handed to them.

Putin is not going to attack NATO or the EU, he will stop NATO moving towards him yes, that is why Ukraine is in the mess it is, NATO Expansion.

My country is not in NATO, we don't give a frack about NATO, we are neutral, we are in Europe, we don't fear Russia.

What and who we DO fear, is America, their rendition flights and the risk they bring to our neutrality.

America does NOT respect our neutrality, they flew rendition CIA flights in our airspace and landed. America has NO respect for laws. That is a fact. If they did, they would have not used our airspace for illegal activities. Honestly Yanks don't give a frack about us here, except when it suits THEM and honestly, I don't give a frack about them, as long as they stay the HELL away from my country.

edit on 19-3-2014 by bubab because: (no reason given)

Granted Russia will target non NATO nations to start with. Places like Ukraine and Finland who though they could be sort of pro NATO but, not join hoping that would protect them are learning that being a quarter in is not the same as an attack on one is and attack on all. With what has happened in Crimea I would not be suprised to see NATO fast track some waiting members, Bosnia, Montenegro, Georgia, and Macedonia. And along with that I would suprised to Finland and Sweden also become full members before Russia decides to grab a few things from them.

Why you people keep perpetuating this piece of disinfo? Do you have any sources to support your claims of russian expansionism, or is it just more rectal steam?

Can somebody show me how Russia is expanding MORE than NATO?

reply to post by bubab


So Russia made it clear that Estonia has nothing to worry about. Sounds a LOT like "you can keep your own doctor with Obamacare," or "your premiums will NOT go up with the "affordable" care act."

Putin is a monster, with a non-stoppable ego and we have a sock puppet/teleprompter-reader in the White House who cannot, for the life of himself, figure out how to stand up to this bully.

Like a set of dominoes it'll happen...Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus ...we are watching the early formation of the new Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

And who do they send to Eastern Europe to calm their fears? Biden, the Village Idiot. Oh, the world is in good hands, people.

NATO expansion en.wikipedia.org...

Can somebody show me Russia's expansion?

So far all I have seen is Russia SHRINKING.

Jansy
reply to post by bubab

 

So Russia made it clear that Estonia has nothing to worry about. Sounds a LOT like "you can keep your own doctor with Obamacare," or "your premiums will NOT go up with the "affordable" care act."

Putin is a monster, with a non-stoppable ego and we have a sock puppet/teleprompter-reader in the White House who cannot, for the life of himself, figure out how to stand up to this bully.

Like a set of dominoes it'll happen...Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus ...we are watching the early formation of the new Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

And who do they send to Eastern Europe to calm their fears? Biden, the Village Idiot. Oh, the world is in good hands, people.

edit on 19-3-2014 by Jansy because: (no reason given)

We don't want any of you yanks here. Go home yanky.

My country, like Russia, is in NATO's Partnership for Peace, however, we will NEVER join NATO, we may have to reconsider our partnership for peace at some point.

Jansy
reply to post by bubab

 

So Russia made it clear that Estonia has nothing to worry about. Sounds a LOT like "you can keep your own doctor with Obamacare," or "your premiums will NOT go up with the "affordable" care act."

Putin is a monster, with a non-stoppable ego and we have a sock puppet/teleprompter-reader in the White House who cannot, for the life of himself, figure out how to stand up to this bully.

Like a set of dominoes it'll happen...Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus ...we are watching the early formation of the new Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Again, anything more than hyperbole? Ah, I dont think your papers are in order, that "you can keep your own doctor with Obamacare," and "your premiums will NOT go up with the "affordable" care act" is not from russia, its fron the US, just so you change the tag.

reply to post by bubab


Joining EU as well as NATO were good decisions in my eyes.

You have to consider this is a very small nation, having less than 1.5 million citizens total. A country that small is not able to defend itself against large nations, like Russia. That is the reason NATO is important - such a small nation needs allies in order to protect itself. The people here have historical experience with Russia and of-course certain fear remains, Soviet Union is something that people do not long for.

Last 10 years, since joining EU, the systems have improved a lot. When you take a look at different stats, Estonia is doing better than majority of other Post-Soviet nations. The corruption still does exist on some level, but compared to what is happening in Belarus or Ukraine (was), it is non-existent. It would be lower, if the Russians (without passport) would not help the most corrupt party at power in the capital. They have no chance on national level (parliament), although in city council elections people without citizenship can also vote. The salaries are still lower than European average, although these are improving and you can not make what others achieved in 60 years in 20. The social systems are working reasonably well, universal healthcare,the education system according to PISA tests is one of the strongest in the world, free-of-charge university education. IT-wise this is one of the most technologically advanced nations, implementing national solution (near to anything can be done online). The entrepreneurship culture is very strong, producing lots of strong start-ups (#EstonianMafia).(That is something joining EU has benefit a lot, easier access to European markets) The government debt-to-gdp is 9,8%. The general life-quality has improved significantly since joining EU.

I do not see much things to whine about.

Cabin
reply to post by bubab

 

Joining EU as well as NATO were good decisions in my eyes.

You have to consider this is a very small nation, having less than 1.5 million citizens total. A country that small is not able to defend itself against large nations, like Russia. That is the reason NATO is important - such a small nation needs allies in order to protect itself. The people here have historical experience with Russia and of-course certain fear remains, Soviet Union is something that people do not long for.

Last 10 years, since joining EU, the systems have improved a lot. When you take a look at different stats, Estonia is doing better than majority of other Post-Soviet nations. The corruption still does exist on some level, but compared to what is happening in Belarus or Ukraine (was), it is non-existent. It would be lower, if the Russians (without passport) would not help the most corrupt party at power in the capital. They have no chance on national level (parliament), although in city council elections people without citizenship can also vote. The salaries are still lower than European average, although these are improving and you can not make what others achieved in 60 years in 20. The social systems are working reasonably well, universal healthcare, free-of-charge university education. IT-wise this is one of the most technologically advanced nations, implementing national solution (near to anything can be done online). The entrepreneurship culture is very strong, producing lots of strong start-ups (#EstonianMafia).(That is something joining EU has benefit a lot, easier access to European markets) The government debt-to-gdp is 9,8%. The general life-quality has improved significantly since joining EU.

I do not see much things to whine about.

If you join NATO from a neutral country, you are NO LONGER NEUTRAL, if NATO go to war, so is your ass.

That is the VERY REASON my country is never joining NATO, we have NEUTRAL status.

Something to ponder, what happens when NATO consumes the entire planet?

The only thing standing in NATO's way then are partners for peace members, NEUTRAL countries.

Does NATO start to evilify Neutral countries then such as my own?

There was NATO vs the Warsaw Pact. They no longer exist, now NATO just consums the world.

reply to post by bubab


How can a country with 1.5 million citizens defend itself from a nation with 143.5 million citizens without having strong allies?

Strategically there is near to no chance winning the battle against Russian full-force. Currently the whole defense is built on NATO - being able to defend the country´s territory until NATO forces arrive - there is just no other way, as size-wise the army and its budget are inexistent compared to Russian ones.

Cabin
reply to post by bubab

 

How can a country with 1.5 million citizens defend itself from a nation with 143.5 million citizens without having strong allies?

Strategically there is near to no chance winning the battle against Russian full-force. Currently the whole defense is built on NATO - being able to defend the country´s territory until NATO forces arrive - there is just no other way, as size-wise the army and its budget are inexistent compared to Russian ones.

My country has 4.5 million citizens, how do we defend against that?

We remain neutral, we are in the EU, we are NOT in NATO for very good reason I have explained over and over again.

We are not scared of Russia, we are scared of US/UK.

I can get numbers of Russians living here too, maybe you want those but it won't help your argument.

Here is something to ponder, neutral countries CAN join Nato's partner for peace, even Russia is in the Partner for peace programme. You don't HAVE to join NATO, however NATO want you to join, so they can set up shop in your country to expand.

Neutral status obviously means NOTHING to a lot of you, we were spared during the wars because of it.

reply to post by bubab


You cannot be talking for whole nation. Finns are not afraid of Russia and even less afraid of USA.. i can´t understand your view. We do like to be neutral as long as possible but if Russian pressure increases NATO has been and is one option.
We still remember what happened in WW2 and when we needed help League of Nations ( prior UN ) had no balls to step against Russia.
In Finland there is 5.4 million people not 4.5 so i expect you are not from Finland and therefor your really cannot speak for us either.

Cabin
reply to post by bubab

 

How can a country with 1.5 million citizens defend itself from a nation with 143.5 million citizens without having strong allies?

Strategically there is near to no chance winning the battle against Russian full-force. Currently the whole defense is built on NATO - being able to defend the country´s territory until NATO forces arrive - there is just no other way, as size-wise the army and its budget are inexistent compared to Russian ones.

You seem like a very reasonable person and I don't fully disagree with you, but I don't share your optimism regarding NATO protection.

I believe that your country would be fully protected by NATO if Russia declared all-out war against you. But citizens inside the country, starting protests and making some sort of revolution similar to what happened in Ukraine, Syria, Egypt or Libya, would not be directly pinned on Russia as a country. We know from recent and past events that those movements have other groups infiltrated in them to sway things in favor of an external influence, but that doesn't prevent an event occurring unless some proof involving Russia is presented.

And sadly, we live in a world where some countries are worth more than others. Syria is an ally of Russia, and that's why you see a civil war going for years and +100,000 deaths. The West wanted Syria under their control like what happened to Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia, having good relations with Syria and having a Black Sea port there, would simply not accept that another country would be influenced by Western actions. Protests erupt, coup fails, civil war erupts but no clear war is visible.

Unless NATO or Russia take a stand and declare war on each-other, covert conflicts like these will continue to erupt. I don't share the enthusiasm that some people have regarding the start of a new Cold War, but what is happening since Afghanistan and Iraq (post-Cold War) is a repetition of what happened after WWII. A hole bunch of proxy wars, where one side - almost like a game - takes turn on active action, but never direct conflict.

I hope you, and your country, don't fall victims to it. But if they start talking too much like this, Estonia could in fact be next.

West weakness and lack of certitude regarding Ukraine has given Russia and Putin the confidence to respond in an aggressive manner.

But, of course, this is just my opinion. lol

dollukka
reply to post by bubab

 

You cannot be talking for whole nation. Finns are not afraid of Russia and even less afraid of USA.. i can´t understand your view. We do like to be neutral as long as possible but if Russian pressure increases NATO has been and is one option.
We still remember what happened in WW2 and when we needed help League of Nations ( prior UN ) had no balls to step against Russia.
In Finland there is 5.4 million people not 4.5 so i expect you are not from Finland and therefor your really cannot speak for us either.

edit on 19-3-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)

I am very sure our entire nation have discussed the NATO "invitation". We said NO.

If you are a member of NATO, you are in effect, no longer NEUTRAL. If you don't understand that, god help your country.

en.wikipedia.org...

Estonia is NOT neutral countries, mine is, and internationally recognised at that.

You reap what you sow. If you don't to be at risk of war, become internationally recognised neutral, Estonia give that up in 1939.

We are GURRANTEED Neutrality along side EU membership, if we sign up to NATO, we're fcuked.

If you join an non-neutral alliance you are by definition no longer recognised internationaly as neutral status.

NATO is NOT a non-neutral alliance.

Interesting to note, Ukraine was neutral status from 2010, however, they were NON-aligned then, now they are trying to align with NATO. go figure, looks to me they lost their neutrality status by aligning with Nato lol. Careful whom you align with, if the alliance is non-neutral, your fubard as I said.

reply to post by bubab


Not sure where you are from but certainly not from Finland.

What comes to joining NATO and Finland the issue will be on the table again in next fall. According the latest opinion polls of members of finnish parliament, NATO seems to get growing popularity among them.

dollukka
reply to post by bubab

 

Not sure where you are from but certainly not from Finland.

What comes to joining NATO and Finland the issue will be on the table again in next fall. According the latest opinion polls of members of finnish parliament, NATO seems to get growing popularity among them.

Currently Finalnd is officially recognised internationally as NEUTRAL status, if you align with NATO, you risk losing that, like Ukraine did.

Your call, none of my business, but just take a look deeper at the requirements of international neutrality status.

reply to post by bubab


Wow Finland is not Ukraine.. keep that in mind. As i said we want to keep it neutral as long as possible.. so what is your point? I never said otherwise.

dollukka
reply to post by bubab

 

Wow Finland is not Ukraine.. keep that in mind.

True, but it is still a huge risk.

It is this very reason we did not align with nato.

I am sure Finland can kick Russias ass again However, you will lose neutral status, and then, you reap what you sow.

If you are fortunate to have a say in it, I would say , dont vote blindly on it.


I for one greatly appreaciate our neturality status. Saved our asses during the wars and I am very sure we will hold onto it like grim death.

reply to post by bubab


No its not a risk. We have been independent 96 years.. you really think Russia can dicktate what we can or cannot do. We have never been a part of U.S.S.R so don´t we have a right to protect our independence with all causes possible?