Where's The Roast Beef? The Ruining Of Nursery Rhymes! This Little Piggy Had Tofu!

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Yep. Should a Muslim feel pressured to put up a Christmas tree in their home just because all the other people on their street have one? Maybe the Muslim parents should be able to decide how their kids celebrate the holidays. Maybe the vegetarian mother can decide to recite a rhyme that better fits her ideology. Doesn't mean the Muslim kids won't ever know what a Christmas tree is, or that the vegetarian kid will never know what roast beef is.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Ditto OB - always a good conversation with you

Good conversation is priceless

:-)

Have fun in the land of Avatars

reply to post by kaylaluv

Doesn't mean the Muslim kids won't ever know what a Christmas tree is, or that the vegetarian kid will never know what roast beef is.

Yes :-)

I think you would have to dedicate an awful lot of energy and time to keep information away from your kids. If they're in the world - they'll find out about it

Unless you on purpose keep them out of and away from the world - they can and will know anything they want

Kali74
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Seems pretty simple to me. "That's beef, that's hamburger, that's ham, that's pork, that's chicken."

Oh, but we can't have roast beef in the nursery rhyme? I think that was my point.

ZonedOut
2ndly @ ATS the vitriol directed against vegetarians in this thread is pretty mighty considering that I was far more shocked by the revisionism than by vegetarianism itself! I am deeply shocked by what has happened by sharing my simple raw outburst to myself and I in no way intended it to apply to all vegetarians at all and I apologize to all vegetarians for this!


Can we please focus on the revisionism ... should we allow parents to rewrite culture and ethics and history?

I'm not talking about their vegetarianism. I agree with you. I think it's pretty silly to change the rhyme when the kid is going to come into contact with what they're pretty obviously trying to indoctrinate him against.

There is no reason for it, particularly as no one is eating the roast beef in the rhyme.

Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Restricted

 

Quinoa

As just one example

You can eat a varied diet and your body will take from that all that is necessary to give you protein

How do you think cows get their protein? Or rabbits - or sparrows - or goldfish...

All God's children are made of protein - and most get it from somewhere besides McDonalds or KFC

:-)

edit on 3/16/2014 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)

Those aren't valid comparisons. Every animal has different dietary requirements. Every animal's system is also geared to extract what they require from different dietary sources, too.

For example, dogs and cats being carnivores both require far more dietary protein than human beings do, but cats require even more than dogs. A dog can live on cat food, but the inverse is not true. A cat cannot live on a dog's diet and remain healthy.

Similarly, cows, rabbits, sparrows and goldfish will all need different amounts of protein extracted from different sources. Heck, different species of fish even derive their needed nutrients from different sources. As an aquariums hobbyist, I tell you now that there are some species of fish you cannot keep together and cannot feed the same foods because you will be killing one or the other with an inadequate diet.

ketsuko

Kali74
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Seems pretty simple to me. "That's beef, that's hamburger, that's ham, that's pork, that's chicken."

Oh, but we can't have roast beef in the nursery rhyme? I think that was my point.

Like the Muslim family that might drive around a town that has Christmas decorations, but decide not to have a Christmas tree in their home, or sing Christmas songs or watch Christmas movies. It's okay to see the decorations, but not partake personally, ya know?

reply to post by kaylaluv


I don't honestly feel that is a fair or even a logical argument. Changing the words to a nursery rhyme in order to fit your particular ideals is not the same as forcing a non-Christian to celebrate a Christian holiday.

The argument should have been is it okay for a Muslim to change the words to amazing grace to fit the Islamic ideal? While you may feel that is fine, there are others who would wonder what else the extremists are going to force into political correctness.

I simply never saw a need to make "This Little Piggy" into a politically correct statement in order to conform to my own ideals. But then, I give Christmas gifts to Christians and wish people "Merry Christmas" who celebrate the holiday... so.. I'm not much into the whole PC thing really.

All in all... whatever floats your boat. If this little piggy offends, then by all means, change the words.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


It's about what works for your family. I'm certainly not in favor of changing a traditional song or nursery rhyme and forcing the whole world to follow that change. I'm also not in favor of making a mother/family feel bad for adapting something for their own use. I don't think you're in favor of that either, so I think we pretty much agree.

Hmmn.... A lesson on how to make your child feel 'different' and out of sync. with

all of the other children when they start kindergarten.


Coming out with a totally different word that all the others know and say, will

certainly make them feel out of place??

reply to post by ketsuko


Wow - so much info and still you miss the point

:-)

We can get protein from sources other than meat no matter what our individual requirements - human, bird or cow

Protein intake in vegetarian diets is only slightly lower than in meat diets and can meet daily requirements for any person, including athletes and bodybuilders.

Studies at Harvard University as well as other studies conducted in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and various European countries, confirmed vegetarian diets provide sufficient protein intake as long as a variety of plant sources are available and consumed.Proteins are composed of amino acids, and a common concern with protein acquired from vegetable sources is an adequate intake of the essential amino acids, which cannot be synthesised by the human body. While dairy and egg products provide complete sources for ovo-lacto vegetarian, several vegetable sources have significant amounts of all eight types of essential amino acids, including lupin beans, soy, hempseed, chia seed,amaranth, buckwheat, pumpkin seeds spirulina,pistachios,and quinoa. However, the essential amino acids can also be obtained by eating a variety of complementary plant sources that, in combination, provide all eight essential amino acids (e.g. brown rice and beans, or hummus and whole wheat pita, though protein combining in the same meal is not necessary[citation needed]). A 1994 study found a varied intake of such sources can be adequate.

That wiki page also explains other nutritional information - like getting enough iron

Getting enough B12 can be an issue, but there are ways around that problem too - even if you're vegan. Being a healthy vegetarian takes some thinking and some planning, but so does any healthy diet. It's not as if eating meat ensures good health. In fact, there's a downside to eating meat - more than one depending on how you want to look at it

kaylaluv
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

It's about what works for your family. I'm certainly not in favor of changing a traditional song or nursery rhyme and forcing the whole world to follow that change. I'm also not in favor of making a mother/family feel bad for adapting something for their own use. I don't think you're in favor of that either, so I think we pretty much agree.

But this isn't about making the mother feel bad about adapting something to her own use. The OP is about the mother making him/her feel bad for NOT knowing the she had changed the rhyme and not conforming to her standards. In other words, the vegetarian other expects the OP to conform to her and change her ways, so she very much expects the world to conform to her.

And this isn't like the OP refuses to feed the kid a vegetarian diet. This is simply a rhyme.

I don't want to offend B with this example, but this would be as if the OP's daughter had married a Muslim man, and he expected the OP not to put up a Christmas tree or celebrate Christmas in any way around his family, even when his family visited the OP's house because his faith did not allow him to do so i.e. imposing his worldview on all others around him.

It would be one thing for him to not celebrate Christmas in his own house and perfectly understandable, but it is quite another for him to require that his nonmuslim in-laws conform to this standard as well if they don't wish to do so.

reply to post by ketsuko

...so she very much expects the world to conform to her.

Oh, c'mon now ketsuko - you can't be serious :-)

This thread - if you ask me - is much ado about nothing. She changed a word in a nursery rhyme so that it would be more relevant to her life and the life of her child. I understand that it bugs the OP - but even he doesn't seem to take it as seriously as some others in this thread

I'm pretty sure the kid will grow up to be just fine, and eventually realize that the little piggy used to eat roast beef once upon a time... The family will have a good chuckle about the whole thing and future generations will be none the wiser

Besides - who is it gets final say on who conforms to what? Conformity is not all that it's cracked up to be if you ask me

ketsuko

I don't want to offend B with this example, but this would be as if the OP's daughter had married a Muslim man, and he expected the OP not to put up a Christmas tree or celebrate Christmas in any way around his family, even when his family visited the OP's house because his faith did not allow him to do so i.e. imposing his worldview on all others around him.

It would be one thing for him to not celebrate Christmas in his own house and perfectly understandable, but it is quite another for him to require that his nonmuslim in-laws conform to this standard as well if they don't wish to do so.

I think it would be more like if the parents decided to raise their child as a Muslim, and expected the grandfather to not recite nursery rhymes to the child which proclaimed Jesus as Lord. The grandfather isn't forced to be a Muslim in that situation.

Anyway, I agree with Spiramirabilis - this isn't really a huge deal. The woman hasn't petitioned to have the nursery rhyme permanently changed in books or anything. It's just for her own kid.

Ok I slept on this issue!

I prayed on this!

I meditated on this issue!

I discussed this issue with many women, mostly mothers including my own mother, and a few men, mostly fathers, and some children!

I have come to the final conclusion that Mothers ARE the bearers and holders of the societies current culture as they created nursery rhymes in the 1st place and that I have no place in legitimately feeling upset as it wasn't my childhood that was being rewritten and instead it was my grandsons childhood being written for the 1st time and the difference is quite huge and there are far many more things that I can share with my grandson rather than find something minor to be upset about with his mother over!

I thank everybody who partook in this thread and I learned something profoundly deep and important!

The problem with this is it starts as Tofu.

Then it's other little white lies told to little Johnny to "protect" him.

The Mom gets comfortable with this and before you know it others want to protect little Johnny too.

First it's the School who tells him lies like Christopher Columbus was a Hero and just you nevermind ( cus we wont tell you) that Chris was the driving force for the Mass Genocide of the Haitian people. In Fact Chris a mass murderer who didn't discover America at all is given a National Holiday just for the very thing he didn't do.. gee, Isn't your government swell? Yep Little Johnny, Your Government is swell, and they love and will protect you - better living through Science! Here kid, ingest this very deadly neurotoxin in small amounts for the rest of your life so we can teach you some more lies your going to be brainwashed to believe - No worries, we'll make this poisoning easy for you by putting it in Bubblegum flavored Toothpaste! (Fluoride)- You get the point.

Op, I know you love your family and don't want to make waves but if you don't do something to stop this lying to the kid NOW things are going to get much worse. The mother needs to open her eyes and see how detrimental her actions could be for the child.

BTW, before you send the kid to school i highly suggest you read Lies My Teacher Told me By James Lowen. It details tons of things they teach in school that are not true and are a twisted history for the express purpose of keeping the truth from our kids and to keep them dolcile, non critical thinkers. It is a MUST READ for all Parents with school age kids.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I will get and read that book!

I will implore her to home-school him in HER culture! (please read my last post above on why)

I will always encourage him to think critically for himself, to act in his own best interests and to become self sufficient!

P.S. I still hold mothers fully responsible for any lies they teach their children and I pray to God to lift that burden from me as I am loathe to condemn my own mother! Dear God forgive me! My hypocrisy disgusts me!