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An Important Question for ALL atheists...

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posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by tsingtao
 





let's see, NK has no religion so that might be a place you would like and won't have to struggle to change anything.


Nah. I didn't even like living in South Korea it gets to hot and to cold. Plus I don't like the government of NK.


atheists don't care about other countries and peoples?


Sure we do.


just the USA?


There is a saying about cleaning up your own backyard first that applies.




posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 10:45 PM
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Grimpachi

tsingtao

Grimpachi

HarbingerOfShadows
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Religious Beliefs are not benign?
o.O
Well, your right, in a sense.
They are null.
Neither benign nor malicious.

What people choose to do or not do in accordance to what beliefs they hold is ultimately up to them.
You cannot blame religion for the misdeeds of people without making some sort of magical mind control entity out of it.


Haha right! Maybe you haven't been paying attention.



President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

George Bush believes he is on a mission from God, according to the politician Nabil Shaath. Photograph: Charles Dharapak/AP
The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."Not malicious?

edit on 9-3-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)


funny stuff.

who told obama to get rid of mubarick and ghaddaffy? valerie jarret?




We can only hope it wasn't Zeus, Odin, or Yahoo.



he thought it up on his own.

pretty cool, eh?

those places are more messed up than iraq and afghanistan.



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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Grimpachi
reply to post by tsingtao
 





let's see, NK has no religion so that might be a place you would like and won't have to struggle to change anything.


Nah. I didn't even like living in South Korea it gets to hot and to cold. Plus I don't like the government of NK.


atheists don't care about other countries and peoples?


Sure we do.


just the USA?


There is a saying about cleaning up your own backyard first that applies.


USA then the world?

gonna straighten us all out, eh? give a timeline for the rest of the neighborhood.

i think we might be drifting OT. so i will leave this thread.



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 10:56 PM
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tsingtao

Grimpachi
reply to post by tsingtao
 


A sane one.

Or at least more sane than now.
edit on 9-3-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)


yeah, not very detailed, ya think?

define sane.


Like you said religion has been here since we could think.



We should try something different. Religion had its chance.



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 10:58 PM
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tsingtao

Grimpachi
reply to post by tsingtao
 





let's see, NK has no religion so that might be a place you would like and won't have to struggle to change anything.


Nah. I didn't even like living in South Korea it gets to hot and to cold. Plus I don't like the government of NK.


atheists don't care about other countries and peoples?


Sure we do.


just the USA?


There is a saying about cleaning up your own backyard first that applies.


USA then the world?

gonna straighten us all out, eh? give a timeline for the rest of the neighborhood.

i think we might be drifting OT. so i will leave this thread.


Actually the US is lagging behind the rest of the modern world. We are kind of slow, but I still think we can get there.



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:03 PM
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Grimpachi

tsingtao

Grimpachi
reply to post by tsingtao
 


A sane one.

Or at least more sane than now.
edit on 9-3-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)


yeah, not very detailed, ya think?

define sane.


Like you said religion has been here since we could think.



We should try something different. Religion had its chance.


That may be my favourite quote of all time hehe. But there are so many so today it will be the top one for me anyway



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 



No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

Albert Einstein




The better idea in my humble opinion is to stop worrying what everyone else believes.
edit on 9-3-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 


Good advice for those who would worry.

I am not worrying though. Milt can write that one off as well.



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Uhm....
Yes it does.
If the beliefs can take no action of their own accord.
It naturally follows that they are neither benign or malignant.
It's all left to how the person acts and interprets.

Case in point, many Christians, while believing that homosexuality is a sin.
Will not in anyway seek to harm or wish harm upon homosexuals.

Is believing someone is wrong for doing something inherently malignant?
If so, how exactly?
Because I honestly cannot see it.



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Your claim is in contradiction to your words thus far.
But, whatever.
Cheers.



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 


I understand your confusion, however I learned a while back that.




posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


You are aware what a Non Sequitor is?


edit on 9-3-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: because because because the wonderful wonderful things he does



posted on Mar, 9 2014 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 


Sure do.

BTW didn't you write this?





The better idea in my humble opinion is to stop worrying what everyone else believes.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 12:07 AM
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Grimpachi
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 


Sure do.


Well, just wanted to make sure you were doing it intentionally.

edit on 10-3-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: THe toaster made me do it!



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 


Uhm....
Yes it does.
If the beliefs can take no action of their own accord.
It naturally follows that they are neither benign or malignant.
It's all left to how the person acts and interprets.

….and when that belief is made manifest into action it's no longer a 'null' belief...


Case in point, many Christians, while believing that homosexuality is a sin.
Will not in anyway seek to harm or wish harm upon homosexuals.

Which is good. But there are many that do wish to deny them equal treatment [or even wish physical harm] based on a theological position. What you're saying doesn't negate that.

What you're saying implies some Christians choose to support a belief that is in conflict with their religious one, and in that event their religious beliefs were 'null'. Great, but they don't always do that. Clearly.


Is believing someone is wrong for doing something inherently malignant?

I think the more prudent question is. Is believing something is wrong [or right] on no evidence a positive thing? If I for instance believed drinking root beer cured cancer, and I did so with zero evidence, would you consider it a good or a bad thing if I started convincing others of this belief by the millions? So yes I definitely think it's a malignant thing that the discrimination against LGBT is largely theological in nature and is also wholly lacking evidence. As one example.
edit on 10-3-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 


Nope I wasn't doing it at all. Religion has and is holding us back. I have authored several threads showing such. I invite you to read through them.

Anyway, I am off to bed I had a long day of sinning. It was once a heretical crime that was punnishable to work on Sundays.

Nite



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


And there you go worrying about what others believe again.

After claiming you did no such thing none the less.
Your response after I said that it seems you do, was the non sequitor.



edit on 10-3-2014 by HarbingerOfShadows because: If you build it. They will come. All over the floor.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 12:58 AM
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Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 

….and when that belief is made manifest into action it's no longer a 'null' belief...


It seemed rather clear to me was talking about belief.
Not belief made action.
That's something different.

It's quite worth noting not all beliefs or thoughts are acted upon.
Thus they are null.

Actions can be bengin or malignant, not beliefs.


Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 
Which is good. But there are many that do wish to deny them equal treatment [or even wish physical harm] based on a theological position. What you're saying doesn't negate that.


Tangent.
Unimportant.
I made my point.


Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 
What you're saying implies some Christians choose to support a belief that is in conflict with their religious one, and in that event their religious beliefs were 'null'. Great, but they don't always do that. Clearly.


Homophobia is hardly a religious belief.
Comes from people, not from their belief as to the existence and nature of a higher power.


Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 

I think the more prudent question is. Is believing something is wrong [or right] on no evidence a positive thing?


And this has absolutely nothing to do with my comments.

Just to clarify, I am agnostic.
So you won't hear me justifying what they believe.
Mmmk?
But I do defend their right to believe it.
So long as they, as individuals, do no harm.

They feel the "evidence" is sufficient for them.
Is it enough for me?
Nope, however,the problem of personal experience being what it is.
It could be simply a matter of them experiencing something you or I haven't.

I find it funny people seem to think they need to have others justify their beliefs by them.



Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 
If I for instance believed drinking root beer cured cancer, and I did so with zero evidence, would you consider it a good or a bad thing if I started convincing others of this belief by the millions?


Bad example.
Disregarded.


Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 
So yes I definitely think it's a malignant thing that the discrimination against LGBT is largely theological in nature and is also wholly lacking evidence. As one example.
edit on 10-3-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)


Ah, so religion is magical and makes people think, feel, and act a certain way.

Or, we could go with the more realistic viewpoint, homophobes will be homophobes regardless of religious belief. extra DIV



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by HarbingerOfShadows
 


It seemed rather clear to me was talking about belief.
Not belief made action.
That's something different.

It's a logical extension of belief. Actions arise from thoughts. Beliefs are thoughts. If we are going to discuss whether beliefs are or are not benign obviously it would call for a discussion of actions from those beliefs. Excluding that from the argument makes no sense.


Tangent.
Unimportant.
I made my point.

Then your point made no sense. I actually thought it did, but if what I said was a tangent then I guess I am wrong in that assessment.


Homophobia is hardly a religious belief.
Comes from people, not from their belief as to the existence and nature of a higher power.

I've been actively engaged in discussion not just with LGBT but with those that oppose it for over a decade. My experience shows otherwise. Agree to disagree I suppose. I strongly feel it's primarily due to religions instilling these beliefs into people [children especially].


And this has absolutely nothing to do with my comments.

Then paraphrase and ask again.


But I do defend their right to believe it.

I support their right to believe it as well. I don't support the right for their religious beliefs to dictate the lives of non-believers. Separation of religion from State and protecting the minority from the majority comes to mind as well.


So long as they, as individuals, do no harm.

Indeed. So long as. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. My argument is about when they do.


Bad example.
Disregarded.

So is that what discussion with you is going to look like?

Saying things like "unimportant" "tangent" "disregarded" …. with no explanation…


Ah, so religion is magical and makes people think, feel, and act a certain way.

I wouldn't call it magic but yes. It's a very strong factor in how they think, feel, and act.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:29 AM
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Grimpachi

tsingtao

Grimpachi
reply to post by tsingtao
 


A sane one.

Or at least more sane than now.
edit on 9-3-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)


yeah, not very detailed, ya think?

define sane.


Like you said religion has been here since we could think.



We should try something different. Religion had its chance.


yeah, tried that in the 20th cen and you want to try again?



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