Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

@ mOjOm.... couldn't the changes be attributed also to the increase of information,

Then what is the 'source' of the information that gets broadcasted to the masses? And WHO is in charge of moderating that information... that apparently causes people to change their views to adopt strange new ones ? Were they elected by the public to receive the power they happen to wield over the quality of information? Or have Americans allowed unelected powers to rewrite the norms of their societies?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


DS:

You claimed I was calling the OP a Christian; I was not --- you were incorrect.

You claimed you were addressing the original post with your moral relativism question; you were not, you were addressing Lucid. You were incorrect.

You're the one that tried to divert the discussion into arguing about your skill at debate, got schooled a bit, and then wanted to throw that off on me. Once again, you were incorrect.

If you only want to bicker with me, can I suggest we take it to U2U? I think these folks want to have a discussion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The OP has suggested that some mysterious force is at work in degrading the Christian values of the US. My only point is two-fold:

1. Were the "good ol' days' really that good for everyone at large, or only for the privileged, straight Anglo Saxon Prostestant males at the top of the food chain?

2. IF there has been some kind of organized effort on the part of some mysterious group or groups to undermine "Christian values" ... is it not fair to say that those "values" were installed and maintained by manipulative efforts to begin with?

sk0rpi0n
Yes, I had to say ''Christianity'' because it used to be the dominant force in keeping American society grounded and sane,

If you are a proponent of those same "Christian" values and ideas that is. If you held different ideas or values then perhaps they wouldn't be seen as grounded and sane anymore.

during a time when marraige was defined as being between a man and a woman and prayer had its place in schools. Along the way, these things mysteriously disappeared to be replaced by the very things that Christians frowned upon.

Again, these examples have value because you agree with them, but what if you aren't "Christian"?? What if Prayer in school meant praying to some other God or Perhaps Satan??? Then would Prayer in school seem like such good ideas???

Also, being that "Christians" frown upon most anything that isn't "Christian", just about any other "way of life" whatever it may be would seem to be opposite the "Christian" way. As a muslim, if in fact you are, you should be aware of the fact that it too isn't accepted by that traditional system nor is any other system other than that "Christian" one.

The values of a society can be shaped by various forces. Religion and godless mass media are EQUALLY influential on framing societal norms. If words in religious books influence people to believe certain things, then how much more influential would moving images on the screen be? A picture is worth a thousand words right?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Welcome to marxism.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


But religion has had the same access to technology (I'm assuming video here) that godless mass media has for the same amount of time and certainly has equal if not superior resources.

Perhaps people just prefer a society in which all members have an equal share and an equal voice?

sk0rpi0n
Then what is the 'source' of the information that gets broadcasted to the masses? And WHO is in charge of moderating that information... that apparently causes people to change their views to adopt strange new ones ? Were they elected by the public to receive the power they happen to wield over the quality of information? Or have Americans allowed unelected powers to rewrite the norms of their societies?

I don't think you could possibly narrow it down to a single source exactly. Obviously there are many sources, some of which are more outspoken than others and with a much more powerful voice and reach but with the advances in communication I think it's now open for just about any voice to have a some influence. Where as before the ability to Control and Contain which opinions were even allowed to be expressed, we now live in an era where any and all ideas can be expressed and in fact are being expressed by someone somewhere. Over time these different ideas are going to be processed and evaluated by individuals themselves and be put to the test in order to find which ones each individual finds to hold true for themselves. This may take some time though and during that time the cohesiveness of society will probably be in flux as each of them are tried. However, each and everyone of them can be viewed as pushing their own agendas and each and every one of those agendas will either be in step or out of step with all the others until some kind of balance is reached.

mOjOm.... Also, being that "Christians" frown upon most anything that isn't "Christian", just about any other "way of life" whatever it may be would seem to be opposite the "Christian" way. As a muslim, if in fact you are, you should be aware of the fact that it too isn't accepted by that traditional system nor is any other system other than that "Christian" one.

Muslims tend to frown upon Christian beliefs as well, so thats evened out. That discussion belongs in the realm of pure theology and is a different subject anyway. As a muslim, nothing prevents me from admiring positive traits in non-Muslim societies. America HAD some good things in place a long time ago. Im pointing out that over the last few decades, American society witnessed radical changes in family values and societal norms.... and those good things were replaced by something else.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


It is because technology and the ease with which a persons attention can be consumed by technology is rewiring our brains, giving us a hedonistic outlook on freedom, making us forget about others, and eventually forget about ourselves. Once people start uploading their consciousness to the internet or w/e it's called by then, it won't even matter.

Gryphon66
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

But religion has had the same access to technology (I'm assuming video here) that godless mass media has for the same amount of time and certainly has equal if not superior resources.

Does religion have a say on as to what gets broadcast on mainstream media? Maybe they used to in the past... Today you will find its usually the irreligious or anti-christian types who hold the reins.

Perhaps people just prefer a society in which all members have an equal share and an equal voice?

''equality'' sounds nice and all. But 50 years ago, a lot of things were shunned by the mainstream. Something changed that along the way and started to highlight it as a way of life...even to the point of intimidating those who protested.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Religion, or more specifically, religious institutions actually have a measured influence on what the media does in some greater or lesser ways, probably greater in the past. My point is this, you're stipulating that there is a force or forces that are using the technology available (TV, video, movies, now internet) to change the fundamental values of people and I'm suggesting that the religious groups and authorities have the same access to the same media to do the same things.

So it seems to me that the people, as opposed to being herded down some narrow road to hell, are actually LOOKING at the two sides, CONSIDERING what both have to offer, and then are making the CHOICES that seem to you according to your beliefs to be degenerate.

I'm suggesting that the answer to your question may be: they believe what they want to believe.

sk0rpi0n America HAD some good things in place a long time ago. Im pointing out that over the last few decades, American society witnessed radical changes in family values and societal norms.... and those good things were replaced by something else.

I agree as do many others too. I have no doubt that with a little time and hopefully honest and respectful and free and open communication many will continue. I think it's mostly just a bit chaotic and messy while the process is in action. Order from chaos and chaos from order is just a natural process, always has been. Changes of this kind are very deep and persistent and so will require massive amounts of humanities attention.

The media however I don't think can be debated anymore to their influence on us all. I mean that's all "media" is after all. Our communication with each other and beamed into everything we come in contact with.

@mOjOm.... I don't think you could possibly narrow it down to a single source exactly.

You cant pin point it to a single source because you are looking at an entire eco-system of writers, actors, celebrities, producers etc. Their backgrounds and agendas are considered irrelevant...all that matters is the end product. Most people just want to be entertained and they stop short of questioning the backgrounds and moral standards of the people behind the stuff that gets broadcasted as ''mass entertainment''. Basically, if its on TV or film, packaged as ''entertainment'' and if people like it, they mostly tend to absorb it.

Where as before the ability to Control and Contain which opinions were even allowed to be expressed,

So how did groups who previously lacked that stage to express their views...get that stage? I am talking about views challenging traditional institutions that have remained intact for generations and are still valued in other parts of the world.

sorry double post.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I always thought that social engineering went hand in hand with organised religion.

Never in a month of Sundays will they give up that particular control construct i'm afraid!

How else do you expect "Them" to promote hatred and mass genocide if they don't have God in there corner?

andy06shake
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

I always thought that social engineering went hand in hand with organised religion.

Never in a month of Sundays will they give up that particular control construct i'm afraid!

How else do you expect "Them" to promote hatred and mass genocide if they don't have God in there corner?

edit on 12-2-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

The communists did it pretty easily without "God in their corner". Sort of tired of that argument, really. It's ignorant of history.

@andy06shake....

I always thought that social engineering went hand in hand with organised religion.

godless mass media programming is an order of magnitude more ''organized'' than any religion. Its a religion that directly appeals to the base/primal instints of the masses, thus preaching its own version of morality. It collects ''tithes'' or ''donations'' from its adherents through advertising revenue. It has its own pantheon of gods and godesses...or as they are known, actors and actresses. Its organized religion that doesn't promote itself as one, but yet, plays a major role in programming societies to adopt something other than what traditional religion promotes.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Then you show me a war throughout recorded history that did not have religious connotation is some form or another?

It always boils down to religion because other wise cooler minds generally prevail!

Humans generally don't like to commit mass genocide unless they have there Gods approval, far too much repenting otherwise!

Manipulating the masses into accepting a certain lifestyle or idea works on the same principle as manipulating them to buy a certain brand of phone or shampoo. If you keep repeating the message that ''brand X is great'' via logos, advertising, movies, social media, celebrity endorsement, media hype etc., people tend to go with the flow. The once shunned ideas that have become acceptable in RECENT decades and days, managed to do so through a similar if not identical methodology. The mass media is extremely powerful in getting people to accept certain things and behave in certain ways.

andy06shake
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Then you show me a war throughout recorded history that did not have religious connotation is some form or another?

It always boils down to religion because other wise cooler minds generally prevail!

All those wars fought over resources, politics, territory, racial views etc. I don't want to go any further and would discourage others from the same because the topic really isn't about what causes wars.