Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

reply to post by beezzer

Well, I'm trying to look at it logically, and the only solution I can see is what I said above. The government has to get out of the pockets of the corporations and the rich, and start voting the minds of their majority of constituents. They need to start putting the thumbscrews to these guys that are gouging the rest of us, and put them in a situation where they either play fair or can no longer play at all in this country. They need to re-level the playing field to give others a chance, and to allow fair competition.

Right now you cannot compete, you don't have the money, you don't write the laws, and you don't own the law makers. That is why small businesses are paying like 50% tax and the big fish are paying nothing. That is what we used to call a monopoly in this country, and it used to be illegal. Now though, the monopoly is not just one guy, its a small group that control everything through shell corporations, each with its own realm, so it never officially breaks any monopoly laws.

For example, lets say there are only two banks, the "Bank of Def" and the "Bank of Con". However, I own controlling interest in them both... its really a monopoly, but as they are two different corporations, trade separately, have different stock investors, they don't violate the law. Well that's what is going on here, from what I can gather, something like 600 people have a monopoly on the entire planet.

reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan


A star for your first, highly idealistic post!

Unfortunately we all live in a world filled with greed, avarice, want, need that supercedes lofty ideals.

But welcome to ATS. Look forward to your contributions.

opethPA

spiritualzombie
Eventually maybe we learn from our mistakes. Eventually maybe we read the words of wisdom from the greatest spiritual teachers and actually take it to heart and apply it to policy.

Eventually none of that happens because the problem isn't people with money or people without money it's people.
This idea that being poor makes anyone more noble or honorable then someone with money is wrong.

I'm doing okay financially thanks to living a controlled but comfortable lifestyle , working hard in a place that does well with a high level and valued skill set. Tell me again why my wealth should be redistributed to the guy around the corner that spends his day sitting on the step smoking pot? Tell me again why someone with 8 billion times my wealth should have their money taken and given to the guy around the corner that spends his day sitting on the step smoking pot?

Besides it not making sense to me whenever you steal from one class or person to give to another all you do is play a shell game with the problem. I don't see redistribution of wealth as accomplishing anything.

The guy around the corner smoking pot? Are you talking about executives, presidents, rich and famous, or just regular people?

It's funny how people with money are assumed to be good responsible people, and the poor people are lazy.

In my own life I saw my dad making really good money as a lawyer, buying houses, boats, cars-- It was a lot of fun to visit. And yet he found a way to not pay any child support. My mom on the other hand, on welfare, took care of us, worked her ass off. My dad still has tons of money, my mom is not on welfare, she owns a condo, but by no means wealthy. She gets by. But according to republicans, my dad worked hard, got what he deserved while my mom was a "gimme" welfare recipient, lazy and undeserving.

Listen, you're right in the sense that people need to be educated regarding the problem with greed in the world. People need to be educated on greed, identifying it as an illness. That guy who smokes too much pot is no worse than the guy with billions who feels he doesn't have enough.

Someone with 8 billion times your wealth who isn't a super hero of the planet should be looked upon as a tragedy. So much potential and yet what to show for it. A creator of pyramids and underfed slaves. The pursuit of self.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


The solution is not to take others wealth.
The reason the income inequality is so huge and increasing is because those with wealth are able to buy politicians to pass their policies and to serve them over the best interests of the country.

You could say they are stealing from many Americans when they lobby for Trade Deals with Communist China where the average Chinese does not have the Freedom and RIghts like Americans do to fight against the Communist Government when corporations come in and crap and piss in their rivers and skies for greater profits or to take advantage of cheap labor.

Americans with Freedoms and RIghts would never allow these corps to do that here since we have the technology to subvert that.

A lot of the Big Corporations and Banks love Communism when they are on the receiving end of the benefits enjoyed from Chinese Communist Policies.

The solution is to take money out of politics so all Americans, rich and poor have a say instead of the few with money.

beezzer
reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan

 

A star for your first, highly idealistic post!

Unfortunately we all live in a world filled with greed, avarice, want, need that supercedes lofty ideals.

But welcome to ATS. Look forward to your contributions.

Seems to me that there is no definition of "greed" when we all can have whatever we want to live and pursue what we love to do. "Want" in the sense of poverty is eliminated, and in the sense of just wanting something is fulfilled. What would motivate avarice?

reply to post by defcon5


It doesn't start with "the government".

Anytime I see a solution being proposed with "it starts with the government" I cringe.

It has to start with "the people".

The people need to change. then from that pool of people, we elect one, then another, then another. . . . . . then government can change and deal with corporations and influences.

But it has to start with us.

WE need to change. We need to say, "I don't trust government, I refuse to rely on a corrupt government".

This entire "wealth redistribution" has us, you and I and others, yammering at ourselves, while they (corporations and government) stand back and watch at the meme they created.

jacobe001
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

The solution is not to take others wealth.
The reason the income inequality is so huge and increasing is because those with wealth are able to buy politicians to pass their policies and to serve them over the best interests of the country.

You could say they are stealing from many Americans when they lobby for Trade Deals with Communist China where the average Chinese does not have the Freedom and RIghts like Americans do to fight against the Communist Government when corporations come in and crap and piss in their rivers and skies for greater profits or to take advantage of cheap labor.

Americans with Freedoms and RIghts would never allow these corps to do that here since we have the technology to subvert that.

A lot of the Big Corporations and Banks love Communism when they are on the receiving end of the benefits enjoyed from Chinese Communist Policies.

The solution is to take money out of politics so all Americans, rich and poor have a say instead of the few with money.

edit on 30-1-2014 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2014 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)

I would happily accept this compromise. Definitely would be a step in the right direction!

AlwaysIdeaMan

beezzer
reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan

 

A star for your first, highly idealistic post!

Unfortunately we all live in a world filled with greed, avarice, want, need that supercedes lofty ideals.

But welcome to ATS. Look forward to your contributions.

Seems to me that there is no definition of "greed" when we all can have whatever we want to live and pursue what we love to do. "Want" in the sense of poverty is eliminated, and in the sense of just wanting something is fulfilled. What would motivate avarice?

People will always "want" more. More then they have.

More than the other guy has.

We are a very base species. We still need to evolve.

What would motivate avarice? The same thing that has moved us from caves to huts to castles to mansions. Greed motivates. It's an ugly, base motivator, but it does motivate.

TDawgRex
I've looked up Welfare, Benefits, and Entitlements and they are all quite similiar according to the dictionary. At least in my view.

They are all considered entitlements, and that is why we are seeing this propaganda coming from the rich that all entertainments are “welfare”.

The difference is that the government removes separate money from your check for medicare and social security, where actual welfare is a program of charity that comes from other tax payers.

See the difference, YOU PAY into your SS & SSI, OTHERS pay for welfare.

The government takes $1 from you and from your employer with the promise that they are to invest those $2 and turn them into $200 that you can draw on 40 years later when you retire. But instead they didn't invest it, they spent it on $10,000 hammers for the military. They still owe you back that money.

Its the same as a Treasury Bond. You bought one 10 years ago for say $20, you hold it for 10 years, and you can turn it in for your money back plus interest. Say its like $200 in interest. So they owe you back $220 for your $20 you lent them 10 years ago. This is no different then a bank or credit card company charging you interest on a loan. The only difference here is that you're loaning money to the government instead of a bank loaning it to you.

If they default on that its fraud, and embezzlement.

But you see, what happened here is that the conservative rich folks don't want to pay for the baby boomers retirement, which they knew was coming years ago. That's why the market was so high and suddenly everything was sucked out of it. The baby boomers had all their 401K money in there, so they looted that in 2008 right before they hit retirement age. Now they are using false numbers which include SS and SSI to make it sound like the “welfare” numbers suddenly jumped, when the reality is that they lumped in the Baby Boomers retirement with the actual numbers on welfare. Its propaganda by a group that doesn't feel they have any civic duty to pay for anyone but themselves after they raped the system.

reply to post by spiritualzombie

Time for a massive change. I vote for a mass redistribution of wealth.

Does this include all the 1% in all countries?

If so, how would that affect the the entire world population?

What happens if all the "wealth" producers stop producing?

Where does the future distributable wealth come from?

neo96
Charity is a voluntary act of good will towards their neighbor.
Welfare is a mandatory sadist act against their neighbor.

And Social Security is money you lent the government that they have to pay back with interest....

End of story...
I'm done discussing it.

reply to post by defcon5

They are all considered entitlements, and that is why we are seeing this propaganda coming from the rich that all entertainments are “welfare”.

This is true under the auspices of corporate welfare.

Rob from one group to give to another group so they can go out and buy more stuff.

Don't see it as propaganda more as stating facts.

beezzer

AlwaysIdeaMan

beezzer
reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan

 

A star for your first, highly idealistic post!

Unfortunately we all live in a world filled with greed, avarice, want, need that supercedes lofty ideals.

But welcome to ATS. Look forward to your contributions.

Seems to me that there is no definition of "greed" when we all can have whatever we want to live and pursue what we love to do. "Want" in the sense of poverty is eliminated, and in the sense of just wanting something is fulfilled. What would motivate avarice?

People will always "want" more. More then they have.

More than the other guy has.

We are a very base species. We still need to evolve.

What would motivate avarice? The same thing that has moved us from caves to huts to castles to mansions. Greed motivates. It's an ugly, base motivator, but it does motivate.

Why would you want more than whatever you ask for? I think this wanting more than we have thing is a function of the money system with heavy advertising and sales efforts. I know a lot of people who are satisfied with what they have - or more to the point, were satisfied when their needs were met. These days, most are struggling to keep that little bit of satisfaction they once had with no worries.

And I think you sell humanity short. Greed only motivates people to the point of hurting others in the psychopathic, and is a function of the money system. What the true motivation of most of us is is either survival or love of doing things.

But the 1% does promote the idea that humanity is as base as you say. It covers their tracks as they point to humanity and blame us for their choices.

An average American family pays in taxes about $15 a day in subsidies to large corporations, and pays less than 10 cents a day to food stamps. I'm no math major but I see a slight difference.

How about we talk about the real welfare of the US giving 50 billion a year in aid to other countires. Why is it OK that a family in Israel or Pakistan gets assistance but it's looked down upon from a family down your street? Why isn't corporate welfare, loopholes, outsourcing looked at more closely?

This is all one big dog and pony show to keep us fighting.

beezzer

AlwaysIdeaMan

beezzer
reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan

 

A star for your first, highly idealistic post!

Unfortunately we all live in a world filled with greed, avarice, want, need that supercedes lofty ideals.

But welcome to ATS. Look forward to your contributions.

Seems to me that there is no definition of "greed" when we all can have whatever we want to live and pursue what we love to do. "Want" in the sense of poverty is eliminated, and in the sense of just wanting something is fulfilled. What would motivate avarice?

People will always "want" more. More then they have.

More than the other guy has.

We are a very base species. We still need to evolve.

What would motivate avarice? The same thing that has moved us from caves to huts to castles to mansions. Greed motivates. It's an ugly, base motivator, but it does motivate.

I think of greed as kind of a cross between sociopath and addict. Definitely an illness. A warping of the mind. We should be mindful of anyone who has billions and is not curing cancer, feeding a small country, or propelling the human race forward, leading us to greatness.

It would be like if super-humans existed on the planet, but they used their super powers to make themselves more powerful even to the detriment of the poor and unfortunate. Is that a super hero or a super villain?

beezzer
It doesn't start with "the government".
Anytime I see a solution being proposed with "it starts with the government" I cringe.
It has to start with "the people".

The government is supposed to be the people.
The fact that it no longer represents the people is a BIG part of the problem.
Instead they represent whatever corporation(s) paid for their campaign.

reply to post by defcon5

And Social Security is money you lent the government that they have to pay back with interest....

LOL lent government!

People lent government 6% and get 100% back.

This is what I am talking about getting more back than they ever paid in.

And that interest doesn't generate the funds needed to pay for that 100% benefit.

The difference is made up by ?

Taking money from other people.

ketsuko
reply to post by TerryMcGuire

 

See, I never wanted to keep playing once it was self-evident who had won. There was no more point, and I never made up schemes to keep gaming them into it.

But to me, I learned early on that the point was playing the game, not necessarily the winning. I wanted to play and play well, and if that got me a win, so much the better, and if not, then at least I knew I played the best game I could.

Exactly Ketsuko. Though for you the point was not winning, but playing, the point in so many cases IS winning. You could see it and after a bit I could see it too. But in this society, though much praise is offered to the play for the sake of play, way to much emphasis is placed not on the play and the fairness but the winning itself. But I don't think the victors in this economic swindle have gotten as far as you and me.

Charity is a voluntary act of good will towards their neighbor.
Welfare is a mandatory sadist act against their neighbor.

And Social Security is money you lent the government that they have to pay back with interest...

Oh, and Medicare is an insurance policy that you pay into your entire working career that you can drawn on after retirement. The same as any other medical insurance policy.

Now I'm done discussing it.

beezzer


It has to start with "the people".

The people need to change. then from that pool of people, we elect one, then another, then another. . . . . . then government can change and deal with corporations and influences.

But it has to start with us.

WE need to change. We need to say, "I don't trust government, I refuse to rely on a corrupt government".

This entire "wealth redistribution" has us, you and I and others, yammering at ourselves, while they (corporations and government) stand back and watch at the meme they created.

And how does it start with the people?
If history is an indicator, we know that like clockwork, those in power take advantage of their positions until they are overthrown and the cycle starts all over again.

The pattern never changes because we are stuck in a school of existence at the 7th grade level until we as spirits understand this, get tired of it and move on. That is my take on it.