Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

lostgirl
reply to post by RedCairo

 

…Would you mind if I sent you a U2U (why do they call them that, I wonder?)

Offtopic, but branding a private message as a U2U is part of creating a Unique Selling Point to make an otherwise undifferentiated product (a forum) stand out.

Regarding the data processing being performed by the JV control system: given humans can already process all those things which were mentioned, I have to consider the potential capacity of the control system to be much, much greater; even to the extent of what we would consider omniscience.

reply to post by wemadetheworld


Very nice thinking.

However I see no difference between interacting with a machine intelligence..A quantum computer universe a simulation or a living mystical universe. All different forms of the same thing.

We need couples counseling with the trickster not much concern over the existential machinery...that's mostly beyond us and a trap.

Don't throw shamanism in with the rest...it predates all spirituality and religion and is a will based communications protocol -- quite neutral and cross boundary and cross discipline.

reply to post by Autograf


I think it approaches omniscience in a weird way too...more omnipresence with intuitive connectedness..

it's why 'It' / 'they' keep playing with and laugh at our foolishness.

It's vulnerable to rational thought and intention it would seem to me.

lostgirl
RC, have you ever speculated why those 'episodes' ended?

Yeah, speculation only, though there's different stuff with different reasons. I can't get into it here because it would pull the thread off-topic.

reply to post by lostgirl


perhaps different factions in the field program their different followers to taste.

Some people are born scientists. Some people are born skeptics. Some People Are Born spiritual or religious.

perhaps the field wants to experience a whole range of human experience and that's why it resists being pigeon holed.

for example many people still believe in demons and djinn and Buddha's and what not.

RedCairo
Plenty of occult orders have been working toward that for eons...

Yes... so what we need to do is get the best and brightest of the various orders and monasteries around the world together and have them join forces to start beating the challenges of skeptic organizations with the goal of working their way up to the MDC (Million Dollar Challenge) and of course gaining publicity as they go. By the time they get to the MDC, Randi & co would be backed into a corner, if the media is manipulated properly. If any of the various "challenge" skeptic groups refuse to allow them to take their challenge, then the media will have a field day with the cowardly skeptics who won't allow a super-group of psychics to step up to the plate.

It's crazy enough to work and its the kind of thing the trickster archetype can get a kick out of. Of course it would need the backing of an eccentric billionaire or two. Know any?

reply to post by BlueMule


I'd wager that different factions would fight tooth and claw to make the public proof of psi fail utterly.

If the field gets defined scientifically and pigeon holed then 90% of the rest of the field wouldn't want to exist anymore.

The trickster wants to tell many different stories all at once...not be our servant.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I'd wager that different factions would fight tooth and claw to make the public proof of psi fail utterly.

Possibly.

I'll wager a Coke.

Only one way to find out. :p

If the field gets defined scientifically and pigeon holed then 90% of the rest of the field wouldn't want to exist anymore.

The trickster wants to tell many different stories all at once...not be our servant.

All stories are echoes of the first story.

The trickster wins this little game of 'dozens' when we can't let go of our wants, when we are off-balance... provoked... insulted. It uses our wants and our loves against us. Maybe, if the trickster has a want too, its time we used it against him for a change...

reply to post by BlueMule

I just think it is pointless to design efforts around something designed to disinform to begin with.

There is a thread here at ATS about all the stupid reasoning project bluebook gave for various stuff. Now first off, a certain % (not clear what) didn't even go to that. Then what did, a good % was 'unexplained.' Then what WAS explained, a very hefty chunk was "this is the most asinine, obviously lying made up BS explanation I ever heard in my life" because everything was venus, weather balloon, or swamp gas, including stuff with radar tracking, airplane chasing, very local presence, effects and multiple witnesses (oh yeah radiation effects in one witness) and more -- but it didn't matter.

It was never designed to find a positive to begin with. It was designed as a foil to use for maximum publicity and to create "their own way of evaluating" which would allow them to exclude some things and rule out anything else however they wanted. It was intentionally designed to take it OUT of real science and analysis and put it into an environment where biased individuals held all the power and evaluation.

Randi's test is precisely this. Precisely. It is a perfect example of yet another mini control system it just happens to be based on an individual-with-encouragement instead of a government agency. (They are all humans influenced by the same larger control system of course.)

So your suggestion, in my mind, is the equivalent of saying:

* We just need to find several UFO sightings that are good enough for the government/airforce to recognize.

That would make most people familiar with sightings, and the official response, just want to facepalm. It is no different with psi stuff. It has had an extremely similar treatment-profile to UFOlogy, probably for similar reasons.

reply to post by BlueMule


The trickster wants to play the game. The trickster will sometimes do what we want if we just ask...but anything which degrades the game as a whole will be rejected. In my opinion.

now I really do believe that off world tricksters force us into their game too...and this is a super wild card. In my opinion.

now I'm not saying to give up...but this is the toughest game humans may ever face.

reply to post by BlueMule


Everyone seems to want to tap the field to rule humanity 'for its own good'.

We all know how that will work.

Maybe instead of trying to give humanity new abilities by using the field...maybe someone should think about the fields welfare and help it power up..

Remove all human self interest from the matter.

Maybe that was what Buddha was attempting.

RedCairo

Randi's test is precisely this. Precisely. It is a perfect example of yet another mini control system it just happens to be based on an individual-with-encouragement instead of a government agency. (They are all humans influenced by the same larger control system of course.)

That is to say, Randi and his ilk are all humans who have the archetype of the trickster in their psyche, as do we all. Its an archetype of the collective unconscious and we need to start treating it as such.

Sooner or later, do you know what the trickster does to himself?



It's a cycle. The trickster always shoots himself in the foot. We just need to give him the chance.

reply to post by BlueMule


The trickster has probably existed for 2 million years (archaic humanity) if not since the beginning of the universe.

It must have shot itself In the foot once already.

Can you list a time it has done that and explain what positive thing resulted?

KPB

Well I'm on pg 16 or so and have been following as usual...fine thread GUT,btw, etc. etc. accolades to all... but before I'm distracted, which happens frequently... I'd like to add something, for what it's worth and it's probably already addressed, but...

As for the "Woo-woo" vs. "eye-rolling rationalists who eschew metaphysics yet know something weird and valid zips through our sky", perhaps we are witnessing a mix here.

Maybe we are seeing metaphysical demons, parasites, tulpas, fairies, etc. AND the occasional (or constant) nuts and bolts alien craft going about their business on this crowded, weird world?

In my cluttered, random scanning of this phenom for four decades I've seen some instances where the sighting/experience makes more sense as a scientific endeavor by space beings. The Walton abduction, the Mississippi fishermen, the Phoenix Lights (and all the other weirdness of '97 including my own daylight sighting of a structured-seeming white cylindrical behemoth over Tucson, AZ) , the Belgian triangle, The Scottish jack looking robot thingies, Roswell, etc., seem to fit in this category.

The Streiber, Bentwaters, and all the other little dwarf sightings and high strangeness abductions, plasma balls etc. might be a bleed over from our ID and fairyland. And, of course, the Alien Star Trekkers might know and use ID-world, too.

Admittedly hard to differentiate and possibly way off the mark ... but just wanted to throw it out there.

RedCairo

lostgirl
RC, have you ever speculated why those 'episodes' ended?

Yeah, speculation only, though there's different stuff with different reasons. I can't get into it here because it would pull the thread off-topic.

Oh gosh sorry, I didn't mean that in a personal 'sense', just had crossed my mind that it could be pertinent to why Vallee, et al dropped (so far as we can tell) their research around that same time period...

reply to post by BlueMule


I thought tricksters mostly used our fears against us?


(This query not off topic - tricksters = entities within Vallee's proposed ID control system)

The GUT

Dr. Jacques Vallee has called himself a "heretic among heretics" for proposing his own musings and theories which collectively offer what he has called the Interdimensional Hypothesis (IDH) as opposed to the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH).

Yet another mighty fine whopper of a thread mate and always been fascinated by the EDH since I first read about it from Jacques -this may be a bit random but did think it was relevant as it seems even the Beatles were pontificating about it back in the Sixties.

"UFO (sightings) which they keep trying to squash. I mean-- how many sightings there are, all those people can't be wrong, you know."


Q: "Is your interest in science fiction tied up in any way with what you feel about religion?"

RINGO: "Yes in a way, because I really can't believe that this is the only planet with anything going on. Because there's like-- the law of averages-- If there's fifty billion planets in the solar system, I don't know how many there are, but that's only in OUR solar system. And then there's like millions of other solar systems. So if you just take the ratio of-- in our system of five planets, there's the earth where there's something living for definite, because we're all here. So if you sort of do that, on average, there's gotta be somebody else out there, you know."

"I mean, George has a great scene where-- like, Mars where we say there's no one on it. But that's like, there is someone on it, because it's just in another sort of time dimension which we can't see. Also, like earth, you know-- There's another race going on as well for which the time is just slightly different. So everything is like sort of, you know, one thing. But the times are like that! (gestures to demonstrate with his hands.) So there could be like a hundred races living on just this planet... which is fantastic. And I really think it could be like that 'cuz we really don't know much about time in respect to it being different from OUR time. (laughs) I don't mean one o'clock, two o'clock."

Q: "No."

RINGO: "I just mean like time spent and the fourth dimension. I mean, we know there's three dimensions, and there's theories about a fourth dimension, but there could be fifty dimensions. And just-- we're not bright enough to catch 'em all.


Video

Also, know it's been seen before but Dr Hynek also mentions in the 1970's article below that UFOs may be 'a manifestation of an interlocking universe' so I thought I'd post it.


News archive

Cheers.

lostgirl

DrunkYogi
What if the Trickster is mother Earth herself ? Trying to keep us and teach us!

If Mother earth was the trickster, I think she'd have spent the past 200 or so yrs. trying to 'trick' us into taking better care of her….

Maybe she has tried but we are to wrapped up in our Ego to decode the message. Hence the paradigm shift i was referring to. I presume, maybe wrongly, that the Golden Age will be begin with a paradigm shift.

KPB> One reason that people tend to hate shamans and msytics, at least the very verbal ones, is that both tend to jump up and down on their soap boxes and tell the emperor that he is naked.

They also dislike them because they tend to be total weirdos. :-) The McKenna brothers book "Invisible Landscape" had some interesting commentary on shamanism as basically being a way of straddling the borderline of sanity and schizophrenia and hopefully holding it enough together that a little of both can co-exist in them without mucking up the other one too much.

BM> Yes its dangerous but as you've said, humanity is screwed. Maybe we don't have anything to lose. We are in a unique position in this modern age that might make all the difference.

Might be so. I once said in a case study nearly 20 years ago that the one thing mankind had proven is that he was enormously adaptable and inventive to save himself. I theorized that some degree of the UFOlogy contact experience was in fact a creative invention, at a species level, to save himself. To basically drag a larger-vision, spirituality and please-don't-nuke-the-world-visions into play because maybe that's what man actually most needed for survival.

KPB> But information is key.. we need to get the information out there in a consensus format.. without letting the field corrupt the process.

Maybe. I mean I agree in general, but maybe information is not consensus at all. Maybe reality isn't truly, so why would information be.

GUT> It seems to me that any great idea whether scientific or psycho-social generally gets prostituted and weaponized. Or tinkered with by those who care not much for the test subject but only results.

Agreed. Not sure if there is a way around this.

WillTell> There something we all call synchronicity that comes into play.

The more centered one gets, the more this is present. I've had periods where astronomically improbable things happened two dozen times a day, to the degree reality literally "glitched" regularly, and even thinking about things manifested them often within seconds. (I was later told this is a 'blew-your-crown-chakra-open-with-a-kundalini-experience-effect which it probably was. Still, it was novel!)

I sometimes think that this is actually a sign of being properly centered, by which I mean integrity, clarity, etc. -- that the less time there is between your thoughts and actions and the (instant)-result in your reality that follows, the clearer you are.

LostGirl > I think it is quite important that we go back to basics here with Vallee, et al…I mean (and have mentioned before) NOTHING 'new' has come out of Valle, NIDS/Bigelow's boys, or the government 'faction' (so far as I can find) for over 2 decades… What does that 'tell' us? I don't think they just suddenly got bored with the subject. So why? And really, when you look at it, the 'stoppage' was relatively abrupt. Again, why? What niggles at my mind is: Something happened. Something scared Vallee off. Was it the government? Or were they scared off by something too?

Alternatively it's simply that they ran into a dead end. UFOlogy often feels like that to me. Like you get to a point where you realize you have more questions than you began with but there is nowhere else to go for answers. And the people who act like they have answers are mostly just posers hoping you have some bits of information for them.

Or maybe you're right and something scared everyone off.

One area of focus should be that implication (Moore's?) that Vallee was involved in the Bennewitz case (that was a shocker to me and should be looked into - could provide important clues).

I know nothing of that but I know Streiber once referred to Bennewitz as "the original paranoid UFO techie" and said the spooks totally assaulted the guy basically.

Apologies for venting my frustrations here last night, guys.