China expands air defense

www.bbc.co.uk...

China has demarcated an "air-defence identification zone" over an area of the East China Sea, covering islands that are also claimed by Japan.

China's defence ministry said aircraft entering the zone must obey its rules or face "emergency defensive measures".

Things seem to be picking up. Japan is protesting this calling it an escalation in hostilities.

I am pretty indifferent over the dispute over these islands short of it involving other countries.

I don't only see this a an escaltion towards Japan, but towards Taiwan and others too. China for some reason believes it owns most of the East China Sea. If it has resources or a strategic area for them they claim it theirs. People say America is an imperialist country. What I say Chna is too.

What say you ATS?

East China Sea! Kinda sums it up for me. As for the China/Japan spat well that won't be going away anytime soon they're still fuming from WWII and centuries prior. If I was a Japanese pilot I'd be sure to give the ChiComs a heads up if I was going that way I hear there's lots of sharks in those waters.

Kukri
East China Sea! Kinda sums it up for me.

Your not serious are you? You really think the name of a body of water gives them ownership of everything in it?

Blame this on the current U.S. administration.

The Chinese would yawn at any response from the U.S. in defense of Japan, verbal or otherwise. They know perfectly well that the U.S. would do nothing unless directly attacked.

This is a foreshadow of what an isolationist U.S. would result in... almost identical to pre-WWII conditions....

reply to post by nwtrucker


Short of giving supplies I agree there. If we aren't attacked then they will have very little help from us.

Which is why I wonder why NATO countries always put boots on the ground for us. Don't think US would return the favor.

When the debt we owe is called upon to be payed off, we will be isolated and without a friend to be found. That is when the government will be thankfull for patriots.

Isittruee

Kukri
East China Sea! Kinda sums it up for me.

Your not serious are you? You really think the name of a body of water gives them ownership of everything in it?

Of course not! I think sailing around with 12 carrier fleets does.

Kukri

Isittruee

Kukri
East China Sea! Kinda sums it up for me.

Your not serious are you? You really think the name of a body of water gives them ownership of everything in it?

Of course not! I think sailing around with 12 carrier fleets does.

They have one. One. Plan to build up to twelve. Big difference. Japan currently has more carriers the China.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by nwtrucker


The US-Americans are, as usual, important for the History Lesson,
after the nuclear Holocaust of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the
unconditional Surrender of the imperial Japan this Islands
gone to Japan in exchange for US-Army Bases on the Okinawa Islands!

The Winner "create" the Rules, the USA must defend this Contract
with their Blood or return the Okinawa Bases to Japan!

My Interest:
The Re-Establishment of the "Ryukyu Kingdom"

n the 14th century, small domains scattered on Okinawa Island were unified into three principalities: Hokuzan (北山?, Northern Mountain), Chūzan (中山?, Central Mountain) and Nanzan (南山?, Southern Mountain). This was known as the Three Kingdoms or Sanzan (三山, Three Mountains) period.[citation needed] Hokuzan, which constituted much of the northern half of the island, was the largest in terms of land area and militarily strength, but was economically the weakest of the three. Nanzan constituted the southern portion of the island. Chūzan lay in the center of the island, and was economically the strongest. Its political capital at Shuri, Nanzan was adjacent to the major port of Naha and Kume-mura, the center of traditional-Chinese education. These sites, and Chūzan as a whole, would continue to form the center of the Ryukyu Kingdom until its abolition.[citation needed]

Many Chinese moved to Ryukyu to serve the government or to engage in business during this period. At the request of the Ryukyuan King, the Ming Chinese sent 36 Chinese families from Fujian to manage oceanic dealings in the kingdom in 1392 during the Hongwu emperor's reign. Many Ryukuan officials were descended from these Chinese immigrants, being born in China or having Chinese grandfathers.[1] They assisted the Ryukyuans in advancing their technology and diplomatic relations.[2][3][4] According to statements by Qing imperial official Li Hongzhang in a meeting with Ulysses S. Grant, China had a special relationship with the island and the Ryukyu had paid tribute to China for hundreds of years, and the Chinese reserved certain trade rights for them in an amicable and beneficial relationship.[5]

These three principalities, or tribal federations, led by major chieftains, battled, and Chūzan emerged victorious, and the Chūzan leaders were officially recognized by Ming dynasty China as the rightful kings over those of Nanzan and Hokuzan, thus lending great legitimacy to their claims, if not victory outright. The ruler of Chūzan passed his throne to King Hashi; Hashi conquered Hokuzan in 1416 and Nanzan in 1429, uniting the island of Okinawa for the first time, and founded the first Shō Dynasty. Hashi received the surname "Shō" (Chinese: "Shang") 尚 from the Ming emperor in 1421, becoming known as Shō Hashi (Chinese: Shang Bazhi) 尚巴志.[citation needed]

Shō Hashi adopted the Chinese hierarchical court system, built Shuri Castle and the town as his capital, and constructed Naha harbor. When in 1469 King Shō Toku, who was a grandson of Shō Hashi, died without a male heir, a palatine servant declared he was Toku's adopted son and gained Chinese investiture. This pretender, Shō En, began the Second Shō Dynasty. Ryukyu's golden age occurred during the reign of Shō Shin, the second king of that dynasty, who reigned from 1478 to 1526.[citation needed]

The kingdom extended its authority over the southernmost islands in the Ryukyu archipelago by the end of the 15th century, and by 1571 the Amami-Ōshima Islands, to the north, near Kyūshū, were incorporated into the kingdom as well.[6] While the kingdom's political system was adopted, and the authority of Shuri recognized, in the Amami-Ōshima Islands, however, the kingdom's authority over the Sakishima Islands to the south remained for centuries at the level of a tributary-suzerain relationship.

Wiki Source

There is nothing positive about this from either side. Japan and China have hated each other for centuries, and I'm not going to close my eyes to what the Japanese did during WWII. They can say that it was war, and what happens during war is what happens. This dispute isn't about some little islands. It's about who's more powerful in Asia.

As an American we routinely step in to keep the two sides from finding out just who's more powerful. Perhaps it's time we step back and let nature take its course. With the power of the US degrading due to our insane debt and collapsing economy, both China and Japan ought to tell us to step aside and let them handle their business themselves.

I honestly think that day is coming, and I think it'll be a conflict that results in dramatic reductions of their populations.

reply to post by Human0815


"The winner makes the rules". I agree.

Last time I checked, the U.S. was still the "winner".

There is no "must". None.

The base on Okinawa has ensured your sovereignty, saved you billions in self-defense expenditures, allowed you to rebuild your industry and flourish as a race and nation.

The U.S. owes you NOTHING...unless it chooses to.

So sorry.

reply to post by nwtrucker


Rofl, be happy that the Topic is a different one

We'll back Japan and Taiwan .The pivot is for that purpose.The second cold war is on (and has been since Clinton gave them ICBM tech)

nwtrucker
reply to post by Human0815

 

"The winner makes the rules". I agree.

Last time I checked, the U.S. was still the "winner".

There is no "must". None.

The base on Okinawa has ensured your sovereignty, saved you billions in self-defense expenditures, allowed you to rebuild your industry and flourish as a race and nation.

The U.S. owes you NOTHING...unless it chooses to.

So sorry.

Kind of a disgusting post, the Japanese have been our friends and allies for a long time. If we don't defend them, the rest of the world knows we are useless. And we'd deserve it if they acted accordingly.

Your only as good as your word, it's repulsive to hear the constant nonsense in here of screw over Israel, Japan... heck why not walk from Europe too.

Too many Americans have become cowards.

nwtrucker
Blame this on the current U.S. administration.

The Chinese would yawn at any response from the U.S. in defense of Japan, verbal or otherwise. They know perfectly well that the U.S. would do nothing unless directly attacked.

This is a foreshadow of what an isolationist U.S. would result in... almost identical to pre-WWII conditions....

Is that a bad thing?

penninja

nwtrucker
reply to post by Human0815

 

"The winner makes the rules". I agree.

Last time I checked, the U.S. was still the "winner".

There is no "must". None.

The base on Okinawa has ensured your sovereignty, saved you billions in self-defense expenditures, allowed you to rebuild your industry and flourish as a race and nation.

The U.S. owes you NOTHING...unless it chooses to.

So sorry.

Kind of a disgusting post, the Japanese have been our friends and allies for a long time. If we don't defend them, the rest of the world knows we are useless. And we'd deserve it if they acted accordingly.

Your only as good as your word, it's repulsive to hear the constant nonsense in here of screw over Israel, Japan... heck why not walk from Europe too.

Too many Americans have become cowards.

Oh now we're cowards. Ok, where did all these people go were crying and whining over iraq and afganistan just a few years ago? See? I said it then I'll say it now. damned if you do, damned if you dont. When the US gets involved the world cries foul. When they don't they're cowards.

Explain that logic.

Maybe a great Deal could be that the Chinese get
this Islands and the US is forced to move out of Japan,
Saipan, Guam and the Philipines

Nothing but bad news.

A territorial dispute between two regional power, one on the rise and one on the wane. One of whom who remembers atrocity committed in a previous conflict and the other who denies and downplays committing it.

Neither side willing to lose face by backing down.

This is precisely the kind of situation that spirals out of control. A genuinely worrying development.

I think we need first to know why there is so much trouble:
According to some Sources this Area is a massive Methane Pit,
other Sources named Fish as the Reason,
i go with the Energy Topic.

Both Countries are depleted of Energy and Methane is seen
as a great Resources in both Countries!

Nephalim

penninja

nwtrucker
reply to post by Human0815

 

"The winner makes the rules". I agree.

Last time I checked, the U.S. was still the "winner".

There is no "must". None.

The base on Okinawa has ensured your sovereignty, saved you billions in self-defense expenditures, allowed you to rebuild your industry and flourish as a race and nation.

The U.S. owes you NOTHING...unless it chooses to.

So sorry.

Kind of a disgusting post, the Japanese have been our friends and allies for a long time. If we don't defend them, the rest of the world knows we are useless. And we'd deserve it if they acted accordingly.

Your only as good as your word, it's repulsive to hear the constant nonsense in here of screw over Israel, Japan... heck why not walk from Europe too.

Too many Americans have become cowards.

Oh now we're cowards. Ok, where did all these people go were crying and whining over iraq and afganistan just a few years ago? See? I said it then I'll say it now. damned if you do, damned if you dont. When the US gets involved the world cries foul. When they don't they're cowards.

Explain that logic.

I'm kind of referring to those people you mention.

The US should never have had to do anything like 9-11 if we are implicated in a false flag to "rally" it, not make up stories about wmd's and there shouldn't be any need to rationalize it.

Israel is a staunch ally, we HAVE been raped over the coals in the region for Oil by $$$ and it hurt our economy, we have fundamental philosophical differences in regards to women, the region borders Europe and Nato, the Fundamentalists ARE seeking conversion of the West via religion. It probably is the most dangerous thing EVER for fundamentalist personalities to get atomic weapons or Biological because they believe the after life is more important than the world we live on.

Our justification is there, being held hostage via a needed resource IS reason enough, defending an ally IS reason enough...

War sucks, but the real world sometimes comes down to You or Me

In this case, we made an agreement with Our FRIENDS the Japanese

I have to quote Dwight from Sin City: "It's time to prove to your friends that you're worth a damn. Sometimes that means dying, sometimes it means killing a whole lot of people."