Ufology today is an absolute DISGRACE

There's one story that I read that had the most logical explanation and was really well supported.
The fact that so much within this story has been reflected the last couple of years that I think we really don't understand the mechanism this whole charade has been put too..

We are so well refined played out, with every high tech gadgets we can buy these days that they can withhold this for decades its getting easier for them day by day.. Because we keep them in the game everytime wee buying new technological stuff on the market..

So yes it already happens that they achieved this disinformation because they now have the tools to do it because we fund them to do it!

And if there's something happening that may come to our senses they distract us to look the other way..
That what I think ..

But my gut primal instinctive feeling knows better, one day it will all be on our side..

Im sure there is plenty going on although its not in the public domain. There appears to be more and more credible people speaking out about what many of us suspect and what phenomena indicates.

I get the feeling that we have and are being condition/prepared for the truth and this has and is being done in a suttle manner. Much of it is being done through movies and general goggle box material. Even using images of ET's in online and TV advertising.

I have watched many movies over the last 50 years and much of what I have seen as become reality and that which yet asnt appears to be being discussed in scientific circles and being researched. Only recently Obama referred to prolonged detention which was the theme in the movie minority report.

History aint what we think or thought it was, so its reasonable to assume that the present aint either!!

Another thing that bugs me is, why does the POTUS only have a level 17 security clearance? This for me is a big indicator that something dont add up!! Which = wopping mind blowing big secrets

Lets see what comes next...

RP2SticksOfDynamite
Another thing that bugs me is, why does the POTUS only have a level 17 security clearance?

What makes you think he even holds a security clearance?

"The President, and members of Congress, do not apply for or hold a security clearance. Access to classified information is provided because of their constitutional positions.
Furthermore, under Executive Order, the President is the ultimate holder of authority to determine the classification of items"

hellobruce

RP2SticksOfDynamite
Another thing that bugs me is, why does the POTUS only have a level 17 security clearance?

What makes you think he even holds a security clearance?

"The President, and members of Congress, do not apply for or hold a security clearance. Access to classified information is provided because of their constitutional positions.
Furthermore, under Executive Order, the President is the ultimate holder of authority to determine the classification of items"

Not sure about this. My info came from older threads. But seen reference to this numerous times. That aside I stand by my other comments!

EarthCitizen07
Either way, the government and aliens always win.

Well, the government and the time travelers will always win, because no matter what happens they can go back before it went wrong and fix it so it doesn't go wrong.

You chose the worst of the worst, scammers and hoaxers. Alex Collier? Greer? Project Camelot?

Any "serious" UFOlogist will shudder hearing any of those names.

There ARE good UFO books and UFO researchers out there. You also don't go into a video store and try to find a "good movie" at the bottom of the "on sale" junk bin with the movies for $0.99. The above are pretty much the equivalent in terms of UFOlogy.

NoRulesAllowed
You chose the worst of the worst, scammers and hoaxers. Alex Collier? Greer? Project Camelot?

Any "serious" UFOlogist will shudder hearing any of those names.

There ARE good UFO books and UFO researchers out there. You also don't go into a video store and try to find a "good movie" at the bottom of the "on sale" junk bin with the movies for $0.99. The above are pretty much the equivalent in terms of UFOlogy.

So where are all these `reputable abductees/ contactees` then

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


I will give you a star and flag but I still do believe in the possability we are not the most sophisticated residents of either the earth (though we may be the most numerous HERE) or the solar system but I must agree that the subject has degraded into a free for all pseudo religion, now try to look at it from a ET's point of view.
You are driving to work and are going to let the kids off for a day trip but notice the local primatives whom you are not to interact with have taken your detour past there cave as a semi religious experience and are blaming you for everything from there heamhoroids to there fuel bills and claiming you have the answer to there problems when you do not even have the answer to your own, not the kind of crowd you would want to visit in a hurry when your own life is stressful enough and you have your own worries to think about, and because some poor sods old car clapped out and crashed the apes took it away and disected the crash victims like lions in a safari park so you really do not want to go down there.

To my mind there is one simple fact WE DO NOT KNOW and also we do not know if interaction would be possitive or negative but we do see that they do not want to interact with us (I wonder why) and most UFO are indeed nothing out of the more mundane ordinary of human invention or human mis identification, still I am one whom has had experience in my life so I will always believe but for me the question is phyical, spiritual, psychological, interdimensional or human and I do not have the answer and do not wish to turn my experience into a cave man worshiping the dodge chrysler and the overworked guy on his way to work.

JadeStar
You will find most serious science people into studying the phenomena or the possibility of life elsewhere distance themselves pretty quickly fromt the UFO crowd for the reasons you outlined above.

]

True, ufology is in tatters--as it always has been because Science (big S) and government have totally not done one single worthwhile effort to prove them being anything. The Air Force's own intelligence people produced The Estimate of the Situationin 1948 at the behest of the top brass that wanted some answers. They concluded that the UFO craft were not of terrestrial design. General LeMay, head of the Air Force, ordered the report destroyed supposedly because it did not have actual proof of that determination which could be acted upon. Such it has been ever since, the job of individuals and relatively small UFO "fan" clubs to try to solve the mystery on their own.

As seeming scientific person, you seem in a hurry to let Science and government off the hook for the situation being as it is. And as a smart person, you know better than most ATS people that most humans are not ready to be told. --Oh, yeah I forgot to mention that the Rand Corp. did a study for the government on that topic back a few decades ago and came to that same conclusion. So Science has had a hand in the situation, to cover, ignore debunk and misinform us for decades.

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


Not sure what you're expecting from a conspiracy like this. Its pretty much always been this way. Most people still consider Roswell the big one and that started the subject 66 years ago. We've never had another slip-up of that sort since.

With the US military flush with cash from the War on Terror and the state of emergency the country has been in since 9/11 even less should be expected to leak out anywhere.

kloejen

Take a look at the following picture. The yellow dot represents how far radio waves have traveled in the past century.

source

Not very far 'eh? So if someone out there have heard us now, it will take at least a 100 years for a response.
I know the picture is not really getting ones hopes up, but one gotta stick to facts.

I like your premise. Your idea is essentially correct. But there are a few things wrong with the math and the diagram you used.

Note: I'm not blaming you. After all you got the diagram from the Daily Mail, not exactly a reputable paper with a good science desk.

In order for that dot to have represented our radio transmissions we'd have had to start broadcasting in 1813. Tesla and Marconi didn't start their very low power experiments with radio until the late 1880s and radio didn't become powerful enough or high frequency enough to escape our ionosphere until decades later (1930s).

1. That dot does not represent Earth's radio sphere. It represents the known extrasolar planets distances pre-Kepler.

2. Radio waves travel at the speed of light. If you take the 1930s as the time when our first radio signals became powerful enough to potentially be detectable that means that yellow dot would not be 200 light years across but rather more like 83 lightyears across.

3. Even that would be generous as most people involved in SETI will tell you that we could not detect our -commercial broadcast- radio leakage of this type beyond about 2-3 light years. Inverse square law. Look it up. The nearest star, Proxima Centauri is 4.3 light years so even at Proxima we could not have detected the Earth's commercial radio and TV with present day radio telescopes. It would take a dish about the size of a large US county to do that.

4. Our most powerful transmissions, ie: Military early warning radar, Planetary radar at places like Arecibo and the JPL Deep Space Network as well as its Russian counterpart did not come online until the late 1940s through the 60s. So the earliest anything could have left the earth that which could have been detectable by the nearest stars would probably be somewhere around 1958-1965. And of course these were not deliberate broadcasts but rather technological "leakage". So figure that sphere realistically only goes out to about 60 light years.

5. If you think of other things which might have been detectable at interstellar distances is artificial lighting of cities which began in the late 1880s. We can add another sphere of around 100 light years or so for city lights.

So I made a video to show you the stars which by now could possibly have detected our technology, either radio (which I start with) to artificial lighting of cities in large numbers which can in theory be detected at interstellar.


I'll include the video in a bit as it is uploading. BTW: I am also working on one showing our DELIBERATE transmissions to other stars. Fascinating stuff.

reply to post by JadeStar


Well 166 LY diameter centered on the Earth. Yes, a maximum
radius distance of 83 LY with Earth at the center.

Very well stated. Just the inverse square rule explains the
'great silence' of the drake equation (Fermi's Paradox) if
the aliens don't feel like sending out Bracewell probes
en.wikipedia.org...

But with the huge number of potential alien species out
there, even not exceeding something like 0.1 C, the whole
universe should be overflowing with Bracewell probes in
under a million years.

So the silence is DANG peculiar, inverse square rule or no.

But again.. very nice post.

KPB

mlifeoutthere

NoRulesAllowed
You chose the worst of the worst, scammers and hoaxers. Alex Collier? Greer? Project Camelot?

Any "serious" UFOlogist will shudder hearing any of those names.

There ARE good UFO books and UFO researchers out there. You also don't go into a video store and try to find a "good movie" at the bottom of the "on sale" junk bin with the movies for $0.99. The above are pretty much the equivalent in terms of UFOlogy.

So where are all these `reputable abductees/ contactees` then

The only two I can think of died years ago. The Hills.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by JadeStar

 

Well 166 LY diameter centered on the Earth. Yes, a maximum
radius distance of 83 LY with Earth at the center.

Very well stated. Just the inverse square rule explains the
'great silence' of the drake equation (Fermi's Paradox) if
the aliens don't feel like sending out Bracewell probes
en.wikipedia.org...

But with the huge number of potential alien species out
there, even not exceeding something like 0.1 C, the whole
universe should be overflowing with Bracewell probes in
under a million years.

So the silence is DANG peculiar, inverse square rule or no.

But again.. very nice post.

KPB

Thanks. I made a silly mistake doing the radius rather than the diameter! doh!

And eerie silence is interesting but I am not so sure unexpected considering we're most likely the babies of the Galaxy. To that end, i came across this video last night.



Very good stuff and the guy has a great sense of humor. Comedian-like but he is fairly good with the science (though he does call Alpha Centauri B, Beta Centauri - I'll cut him some slack because other than that the science is solid).

I think we stand on a pretty awesome time for UFOlogy.

Virtually free knowledge, on the tips of anyone's fingers with an Internet connection.

You can truly do your own research - which was really impossible if you could only rely on your local library storing for the most part, books. Now we can share a video live, or upload a 1902 video. So, the amount of people that can possibly reach that information is increased exponentially; like Kurzweil says, 1% is really 100% - once a process is started it will not stop. The sharing of information will lead the people to change their perception of transparency. With that, the whole ET/UFO subject will stop being taboo - a taboo held exclusively by government officials and mainstream TV/media.

The thing is, everyone's waiting for a breakthrough. It will not come from the outside of your personal world, but from within yourself. The breakthrough, I believe, is in consciousness. Really, the feeling of being awake and aware of your surroundings - even to the deepest corners of the black, covert world. And there, hidden in plain sight, you will see... Something that looks like a flying saucer.

Aliensun

JadeStar
You will find most serious science people into studying the phenomena or the possibility of life elsewhere distance themselves pretty quickly fromt the UFO crowd for the reasons you outlined above.

]

True, ufology is in tatters--as it always has been because Science (big S) and government have totally not done one single worthwhile effort to prove them being anything.

And this is where you are wrong. There have been plenty of studies done throughout the world but they have pretty much come to the same conclusion. Anywhere from 90%-98% of UFO sightings do not represent anything out of the ordinary. The other 2%-10 percent depending on the study represent not enough data and in some rare cases the truly unknown but unrepeatable.

I'm interested in that fraction of the 2-10% that are the truly unknown but unrepeatable. Unfortunately the other 90-98% of the noise drowns most of that out and as a scientist makes the whole field a briar patch.

I would like to direct you to the COMETA report for a well researched and fairly recent look at the phenomena. There have been plenty of reports like COMETA all over the world: Argentina, Brazil, Russia, South Africa, ZImbabwe, Japan, China, India, plenty of European countries including Belgium, France, etc.

The Air Force's own intelligence people produced The Estimate of the Situationin 1948 at the behest of the top brass that wanted some answers. They concluded that the UFO craft were not of terrestrial design. General LeMay, head of the Air Force, ordered the report destroyed supposedly because it did not have actual proof of that determination which could be acted upon.

Science requires proof rather than "a hunch" the Estimate of the Situation like you said did not provide any proof to firm up the conclusion.

In other words, it was a rush to judgement without a proper investigation.

Of course you didn't mention Project Sign, Grudge, Blue Book, etc.

Such it has been ever since, the job of individuals and relatively small UFO "fan" clubs to try to solve the mystery on their own.

Would you let a medical fan club operate on your relative?

Why not? They watched plenty of shows like General Hospital, Grey's Anatomy, they even read medical thrillers and medical non-fiction aimed at laypeople.

Why are there no surgery fan clubs? Oh that's right, because operating on your relative is too damned important to leave to a fan club.

Likewise, the question of life in the universe is too damned important to leave to people wholly unqualified and untrained in proper investigative technique.

As seeming scientific person, you seem in a hurry to let Science and government off the hook for the situation being as it is.

No, I am not letting them off the hook. I wouldn't be on ATS if that's the case. I personally feel there is more going on that we on the outside are privy to. HOWEVER: that is a feeling, I have no evidence, i DO NOT PRETEND to have ANY evidence.

I do not feel that there is a whole scale worldwide cover-up. I do think that the phenomena at its strangest embarrasses governments into paranoid over reactions though and these over reactions could be seen by conspiratorial minded people as a cover-up.

As for science, UFOlogy drove science away fairly early on, not the other way around. When you're shouting "hey believe my story, I know what I saw." but can not produce anything that amounts to credible evidence rising to the level to make it worth serious consideration then most of the science world just walks away, the crazier the whole field became just exacerbated it.

Look at NICAP in the 1960s and MUFON in the 1970s vs MUFON and para-organizations today... They are like night and day with regards to educated people who MIGHT know what they are doing being involved.

And as a smart person, you know better than most ATS people that most humans are not ready to be told.

Told what?

What is the problem?! Over a hundred years ago people believed there was a civilization on Mars that built canals. society did not come to an end. Religion ticked on. World Wars 1 and 2 still happened.

If tomorrow the world were "told", there are intelligent extraterrestrials from nearby stars who on rare occasional have visited the Earth very little would change.

Most people my age already believe first contact was made before we were born.

Oh, yeah I forgot to mention that the Rand Corp. did a study for the government on that topic back a few decades ago and came to that same conclusion.

And do you know the other studies which didn't come to that conclusion? There are plenty, but they typically are not cited by the UFO woo woo crowd.

So Science has had a hand in the situation, to cover, ignore debunk and misinform us for decades.

You're wrong, UFOlogy shot itself in the foot and pushed science away turning it into a mostly indifferent party.

You are confusing people hostile to the 90-98% of the junk that passes as UFOlogy who use science to debunk THAT nonsense with the process of science.

SomeoneWatching
I think we stand on a pretty awesome time for UFOlogy.

Virtually free knowledge, on the tips of anyone's fingers with an Internet connection.

You can truly do your own research - which was really impossible if you could only rely on your local library storing for the most part, books. Now we can share a video live, or upload a 1902 video. So, the amount of people that can possibly reach that information is increased exponentially; like Kurzweil says, 1% is really 100% - once a process is started it will not stop. The sharing of information will lead the people to change their perception of transparency. With that, the whole ET/UFO subject will stop being taboo - a taboo held exclusively by government officials and mainstream TV/media.

Information spreads fast.

Misinformation spreads faster.

The latter outnumbers the former by at least a 50-1 factor.

That's UFOlogy in 2013 in a nutshell.

reply to post by JadeStar


I now can blackmail you; an irrational mystic corrected your
grade school math. They are going to take away your junior
scientist card if I say anything!

That said, I'm an advocate of the planetarium and zoo
hypothesis as listed here: Fermi Paradox.

I don't find that video particularly compelling. I still assert
that we should be up to our belly buttons in bracewell
probes unless some variety of the two mentioned
hypothesis are correct. This article makes the
case very compellingly: Self Replicating Spacecraft

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by JadeStar

 

I now can blackmail you; an irrational mystic corrected your
grade school math. They are going to take away your junior
scientist card if I say anything!

Now you see why I use a pseudonym on ATS. My professor would be giving me plenty of good natured ribbing over that.

Then she'd ask why I post here lol.

That said, I'm an advocate of the planetarium and zoo
hypothesis as listed here: Fermi Paradox.

I am too. I'd go so far as to say that I am a strong advocate of it and I endeavor to prove it someday. That's far from saying I have proof of it right now though

I don't find that video particularly compelling. I still assert
that we should be up to our belly buttons in bracewell
probes unless some variety of the two mentioned
hypothesis are correct. This article makes the
case very compellingly: Self Replicating Spacecraft

I think what made it compelling is how he laid it all out for the lay public.

As for Bracewell probes, I think that they probably ARE in our solar system but look at our trends in technology.



In just over 50 years we have miniaturized this:



to

These.




How big (or rather, small) will they be in 2113?

And there is more potential computing power in those little cube sats than was in the Apollo capsules that went to the moon.

If nanoprobes from another solar system populated ours right now we'd be as oblivious to detecting them today as Christopher Columbus was to detecting radio waves.

Here's the video showing just how small our technological footprint on the galaxy is: