The majority thinks Christians are judgemental and stupid

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You say I'm twisting it, I say you're twisting it...

Agree2Disagree

(how do you reconcile your belief with John also writing...."If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us")

reply to post by LoneGunMan


You're ignoring the point I made about believing in something that is proven wrong.

Is there something wrong with not having an ego?

reply to post by windword


Because we are human. We are stuck with a narrow worldview no matter who you are and this narrow world view given certain circumstances will cause you to sin. We all have a weakness that can be exploited. No matter if you admit it or not we all do.

Whether its money, drugs, sex or even the love of our children. I know if someone did something heinous to my child all bets are off, I will kill them. No matter what that would be a grave sin.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


It means what it says. Those born of God do not continue to sin, if Christians continue to sin then they are not born of God. Christians claim that sinning is unavoidable and that they sin every day, so they agree that they are not born of God.

I reconcile it by saying everyone has sinned before, if you say you have never sinned you are a liar. Being born of God (realizing our true nature) is a process, something that comes later in life. Once you are fully born you cannot go on sinning. I have sinned before, I'd be lying if I said I haven't, but I do not continue to do so anymore because I have been born again.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

You're ignoring the point I made about believing in something that is proven wrong.

Is there something wrong with not having an ego?

Oh lord I did answer you must not have understood it.

If Satan causes it to be proven to the person that it is wrong then all we have is faith. How do you prove that Jesus was not God in the flesh? It can only be proven in the mind not in hard reality.

The ego portion. You did not get it. I am saying you are full of ego, not that you do not have ego. To claim to be enlightened means you have too much ego still. I am sorry but that is the truth. An enlightened person never claims to be enlightened.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


I guess I just don't believe in "sin" the way you do. I don't think being human is a sin. I don't think not being perfect is a sin. I don't think that making mistakes is a sin.

I think we all have a sense of morality that we're born with, and that we're all born basically good. There exists a few who are born psychopathic and enjoy inflicting pain. I think our society tends to reward psychopathy, therefore, we have a lot more people acting like psychopaths. But, I think most people are basically good people.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


So Satan did it? Cop out.

How do you prove that he was God in the flesh?

I'm full of ego because I believe I have been enlightened? How is that? You're full of ego because you claim to be a Christian and one of only a few to make it to heaven. That can go both ways.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Absolutely stellar post! You nailed it this is what being a Christian is supposed to mean, not the dogma and crap from man. This is why I brought up earlier the original followers of Christ called it "The Way". Thank you for your contribution and enlightenment.

You are blessed with truth.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

It means what it says. Those born of God do not continue to sin, if Christians continue to sin then they are not born of God. Christians claim that sinning is unavoidable and that they sin every day, so they agree that they are not born of God.

I reconcile it by saying everyone has sinned before, if you say you have never sinned you are a liar. Being born of God (realizing our true nature) is a process, something that comes later in life. Once you are fully born you cannot go on sinning. I have sinned before, I'd be lying if I said I haven't, but I do not continue to do so anymore because I have been born again.

edit on 25-10-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

And now for the hard part...Rev 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot-out his name from the Book of Life but rather I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

Now, understanding that the Book of Life contains all the names of those individuals destined for Heaven...and that this implies THERE WILL BE NAMES BLOTTED OUT....Why will those names be blotted out? Those people were at one point saved, which is apparent by their names being written in the book....but why would they be blotted out if they can sin no longer?

A2D

if that's not enough...let me throw in Mark 13:22 "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

Lead astray even the elect? But wait a minute...the elect are the saved ones...the ones that can't sin anymore, according to *ahem*...but they're going to leave and follow these false prophets and worship idols? Hmmm..

A2D

reply to post by windword


I do too. I feel most people are good.

When backed into the ultimate corner though we all fall short of God and we sin. Even the great Siddhattha Gotama AKA Buddha given the right circumstance will go savage and sin. Sorry but its true.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I am not enlightened. I am a sinner. I do not claim to be enlightened (I once did) and I have ego. i try and get rid of it, I do try to be humble, but I fall short. May Jesus guide me to be a better man.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


What does this post mean in relation to mine? I'm confused because it doesn't seem like you addressed anything in my post.

They're blotted out because they didn't understand the truth maybe? I don't see how this relates to John claiming that people born of God no longer continue to sin.

As for Revelation, Jesus warned about whoever wrote that book.

Luke 21
8 He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

Revelation claims to be written by John who had Jesus speaking through him. "For many will come in my name claiming 'I am he'"

One of the very first verses in Revelation says this:

Revelation 1
3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Revelation meets both criteria for this "false messiah" that Jesus tells us not to follow. Why do you still follow him?

reply to post by LoneGunMan

When backed into the ultimate corner though we all fall short of God and we sin. Even the great Siddhattha Gotama AKA Buddha given the right circumstance will go savage and sin. Sorry but its true.

When we are backed into a corner, our instincts kick in, and it's "fight or flight". Where's the sin in that?

What do you think sin is? Breaking one of the 10 commandments?



Is this child sinning?

What does it mean to fall short of "God"?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


It relates because the book of life contains the names of all those people headed to heaven....SIN is the only thing that keeps us from Heaven...

According to you, "once you're saved you no longer sin", then no names would be blotted out...

Say I'm going to give you a piece of candy if you follow my commandments....What's the only reason YOU WOULDN'T GET THAT PIECE OF CANDY? Likewise, Christ says follow His commandments and you shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven....the only reason you won't is if you don't follow His commands, ie sin....Those who have their names written in the book were saved....the ones that have their names blotted out WERE SAVED, but SINNED and did not repent....

A2D

In the OP I requested that people listen to the song i posted. This I feel is the new direction of Christians.

Here are the lyrics:

"Jesus, Friend Of Sinners"

Jesus, friend of sinners, we have strayed so far away
We cut down people in your name but the sword was never ours to swing
Jesus, friend of sinners, the truth's become so hard to see
The world is on their way to You but they're tripping over me
Always looking around but never looking up I'm so double minded
A plank eyed saint with dirty hands and a heart divided

Oh Jesus, friend of sinners
Open our eyes to the world at the end of our pointing fingers
Let our hearts be led by mercy
Help us reach with open hearts and open doors
Oh Jesus, friend of sinners, break our hearts for what breaks yours

Yeah...

Jesus, friend of sinners, the one who's writing in the sand
Made the righteous turn away and the stones fall from their hands
Help us to remember we are all the least of these
Let the memory of Your mercy bring Your people to their knees
Nobody knows what we're for only what we're against when we judge the wounded
What if we put down our signs crossed over the lines and loved like You did

Oh Jesus, friend of sinners
Open our eyes to world at the end of our pointing fingers
Let our hearts be led by mercy
Help us reach with open hearts and open doors
Oh Jesus, friend of sinners, break our hearts for what breaks yours

You love every lost cause; you reach for the outcast
For the leper and the lame; they're the reason that You came
Lord I was that lost cause and I was the outcast
But you died for sinners just like me, a grateful leper at Your feet

'Cause You are good, You are good and Your love endures forever
You are good, You are good and Your love endures forever
You are good, You are good and Your love endures forever
You are good, You are good and Your love endures forever

Oh Jesus, friend of sinners
Open our eyes to world at the end of our pointing fingers
Let our hearts be led by mercy
Help us reach with open hearts and open doors
Oh Jesus, friend of sinners, break our hearts for what breaks Yours

And I was the lost cause and I was the outcast
Yeah...
You died for sinners just like me, a grateful leper at Your feet

And again the song, it makes me cry every-time I hear it no matter how many times I listen.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


That's assuming that Revelation is truly the word of God. Revelation claims to be in the name of Jesus and that the time is near, Jesus said not to follow the person who said those things.

Also, why would God put peoples names in the book of life if he knew they would end up being blotted out anyways? Does God have to guess about who will or will not get into heaven? I thought he knew everything?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Even with your cautious steps around the book of revelation...you still haven't approached Mark 13:22
"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

How can false messiahs and false prophets lead astray THE ELECT? The elect being the ones saved...the ones chosen....the ones that "can't sin"....'lead astray' implies lead astray from the truth, to idols, to fantasys, to things contrary to God, TO SIN...and ultimately to an eternity separated from God....

This is why teaching DOCTRINE isn't always a good thing....There are people specifically gifted by the Father with understanding and discernment that should teach this stuff...but unfortunately everyone these days seems to be the expert....and thus the misunderstandings arise because we're not using our gifts...we're just assuming we have them all...

And concerning your previous statement as to the omnipotence of God and the book of life and the blotting of names...Christ is the one speaking and so it is Christ who is blotting the names...but we see in Matthew 24:36 that the Father is the one in charge of the day and the time and not even the Son knows when the end shall come...So the Father knows things that the Son doesn't, so the Father is omnipotent and knows who will be blotted out but the Son does not....

A2D

"The world is on their way to You but they're tripping over me"

This one line sums up what I want the world to understand. Would we not all follow the loving forgiving beauty of Jesus if it were not for letting the meme of how Christians think get in the way. Just in this thread its true...The world is on their way to You but they're tripping over me.

Let it sink in, meditate on it and let the love, forgiveness and mercy of Jesus in you heart and not trip over me. For I am and we all are but human.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

Likewise, Christ says follow His commandments and you shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven....the only reason you won't is if you don't follow His commands, ie sin....

The only commandments that Jesus gave were positive in action, to love and to forgive. Is not loving and not forgiving reason to be condemned to an eternity of torture in hell?

windword


The only commandments that Jesus gave were positive in action, to love and to forgive. Is not loving and not forgiving reason to be condemned to an eternity of torture in hell?

By my standards I would have to say no.
But according to God's standards, yes. However, an eternity of torture in hell is uh...well...not quite what happens but I suppose it gets the message across efficiently enough.....I mean, writing "damned to an eternity in a state you REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to be in" is well...I think you get it....

A2D