The majority thinks Christians are judgemental and stupid

windword
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Likewise, Christ says follow His commandments and you shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven....the only reason you won't is if you don't follow His commands, ie sin....

The only commandments that Jesus gave were positive in action, to love and to forgive. Is not loving and not forgiving reason to be condemned to an eternity of torture in hell?

Do you believe in the wheel of Karma?

Is that not an eternity in hell? Until you get off of it and go to the next level of existence? This is the lesson of sin, once we have this in our hearts we are ready for the nest step. until then we are damned to repeat. You cannot hit a target unless you see it, ego makes us not see it and will fool us that we can just be good and loving to get to the next place. Until you are ready you will not get there and you cannot be ready until you know who you are.

alot of these questions can be answered by just understanding the basic words involved. for example, sin, originally, was a very different concept than most of us think. sin was not the fault of the adam or the eve, initially. sin was the fault of the serpent. however, the serpent in the verses is more than one concept rolled into one -- first it is the thing that seduces the adam to sin. then later, it is suggested by theologians that is the accuser, satan. these are actually 2 different things.

when the first adam were created, they were created male and female. they were both created in the image of elohim (that is a plural word that means "gods"). the translators chose to translate the word adam, to man, thus giving the impression that the first created adam was a single man. not only that, it gave the impression that the female adam was not created in the image of god. naughty translators, naughty. cause the verse clearly states the female was created in the image of elohim at the same time the male was created in the image of elohim. no way to dodge that.

now fast forward. suddenly we have a new female adam. she is called eve by adam, after the fall narrative has happened. and that is because her name means mother (wife). so what was the first female adam if she wasn't a wife or mother?

to make a long story short, the sin of the adam was originally the sin of the serpent. the serpent is DNA, and in this particular case, a special kind of DNA that gave the adam knowing. knowledge was sex, procreation, doing the wild thang. (adam knew his wife and she begat). so the tree of knowledge, was dna related to procreation. thus the first male and female adam, were not procreators. new adam were copied, so birth wasn't necessary, as a result, pain in childbirth wasn't necessary, because new adam were not birthed in that way.

the fall narrative is thusly about mammalian procreation in humans -- this was not our fault. where our fault comes in is, once we know our behavior is stemming from animalistic behavior because our flesh is an animal, and how that contains all the survival of the fittest behaviors labelled as sin, we are then accused by our own consciences that such behavior is unbecoming to our superior spiritual body, which doesn't have the same drives or demands as our fleshly bodies. i.e. the war between the spirit and the flesh

furthermore, the accuser, i.e. satan, is thusly accusing us constantly about our sin -- our human bodies and their animal drives. this is done in several ways: 1) the law of the old testament, 2) we accuse each other, 3) we accuse ourselves. jesus' simple, yet elegant solution to that was to forgive ourselves, then forgive others.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Okay. So you think that God will punish you if you can't find it within yourself to forgive and to love some people. Is this why Jesus had to die, so that Christians who believe in him, but can't follow his commandments to love and forgive can avoid the punishment that will be dealt to everyone else?

What if I love and forgive, but don't believe in the Jesus story?

reply to post by undo


Again you articulate what I know inside but fell short of putting it into words. Awesome! undo you have an extremely great grasp of the esoteric.

reply to post by LoneGunMan

Do you believe in the wheel of Karma?

Not exactly. The wheel of karma, in my opinion is self inflicted punishment.

Is that not an eternity in hell? Until you get off of it and go to the next level of existence? This is the lesson of sin, once we have this in our hearts we are ready for the nest step. until then we are damned to repeat. You cannot hit a target unless you see it, ego makes us not see it and will fool us that we can just be good and loving to get to the next place. Until you are ready you will not get there and you cannot be ready until you know who you are.

I don't see it that way. The way I see it, the soul is eternal. The self determined, or in your world, the "born again" are free as the wind to incarnate or not.

The "Great Work" isn't finished and the saints aren't sitting in paradise sipping on Pina Coladas while the earth goes to hell in a handbag. We come back because we have something to do, or something we want to learn.

What will you do with eternal life?

reply to post by undo


I sent you a u2u, do you mind checking it when you get a chance?

reply to post by windword


This is infinite existence and we do not just go park in heaven. We go to whatever is the next plain of existence once we are done here. I believe the same as you, we have many lives here, but we do complete this journey and go to another.

reply to post by windword


Yes I have studied Dr. Wayne Dyere.

I have taught what you are saying. You do have part of the truth.

Well the majority of Christians are judgmental, then again, so is the majority, period. I don't think most Christians are stupid, but most (or all) are ignorant, whether willfully or not.

reply to post by LoneGunMan

Yes I have studied Dr. Wayne Dyere.

I haven't. I have no idea how his teachings relate to my experiences and my beliefs.

reply to post by windword


Are you from Michigan? My store was called "Celtic Moon" In Midland. If so this is Brian. You seem to reflect what I used to teach in my classes.

windword
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Okay. So you think that God will punish you if you can't find it within yourself to forgive and to love some people. Is this why Jesus had to die, so that Christians who believe in him, but can't follow his commandments to love and forgive can avoid the punishment that will be dealt to everyone else?

What if I love and forgive, but don't believe in the Jesus story?

What are you trying to say?

If I love God I will keep His commands and therefore I will love and forgive. If I do not keep his commands, that is, if I do not love and forgive then I am not from Him. Love & Forgive, I don't think it's too much to ask of a person...

But one thing I'd like to clarify....it's only really seen as "punishment" from our perspective....and on top of that the term has such a negative connotation...When children think "punishment" they think harsh, unjust, unloving et cetera.. But from a Father's perspective it's only what is necessary and appropriate...

and...

If you do not have faith then your works are dead.

There is no loophole in God's work. You either A) Follow His commands, Love the Lord thy God and Love thy neighbor or B) Don't follow His commands...

A2D

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Nope, never been to Michigan, and never took any New Age classes. I lived on Maui for 27 years though, capitol of the "Airy Fairy" community! LOL

My beliefs come from personal experience and reflection.

reply to post by windword


His teaching are that no matter how bad or how good the next life is as souls we choose it to learn the lessons of life. He once said can you imagine how brave it was when his fathers soul decided to play the alcoholic father to teach the lessons they both needed to learn. Just one example of many.

windword
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

My beliefs come from personal experience and reflection.

AS do mine. I have always been rather psychic and the crazy ride my life has always been on led me to study these things. You were and are judging me and you do not know me. If you did it would blow your mind that I am now Christian.

I do love Maui though, took the wife up the road to Hanna on a Harley we rented from Island Riders.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

If I love God I will keep His commands and therefore I will love and forgive. If I do not keep his commands, that is, if I do not love and forgive then I am not from Him. Love & Forgive, I don't think it's too much to ask of a person...

Really? Do you think it's easy for a woman, her father or her husband to forgive her rapist or murderer? What if they just can't find it in them?

But one thing I'd like to clarify....it's only really seen as "punishment" from our perspective....and on top of that the term has such a negative connotation...When children think "punishment" they think harsh, unjust, unloving et cetera.. But from a Father's perspective it's only what is necessary and appropriate...

A parent's punishment is finite and has an end goal, that the child will learn a lesson and be a better person for it. Sending an individual to hell for eternity for not believing something or not being capable of forgiveness and love for some people has no redeeming value.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


"If possible" being key here. He didn't say it was possible did he? He said that "if" it is possible. Not all ifs become true.

Well, if Jesus didn't know everything beforehand, that rules him out as being fully God, because God knows everything. If anything, him not knowing the day implies he is not God at all.

I find it strange that Jesus could have perfectly described how and what would happen at the end of Times, yet could have no possible way of knowing when it would happen. If he was fully God as Christian doctrine teaches, he would have known when it would happen, not just how.

LoneGunMan
reply to post by undo

 

Again you articulate what I know inside but fell short of putting it into words. Awesome! undo you have an extremely great grasp of the esoteric.

aww, thanks. i keep hearing that verse in my head about how people would be surprised when they finally see satan and would say things like "THAT did all the bad in the world??" imagine if it's a teeny tiny strand of dna. lol

reply to post by LoneGunMan


I'm not judging you. I have asked you a number of sincere questions that you haven't answered though.

When you saw Jesus, did he confirm that Bible stories are true? Did he tell you that he is God? Was it his appearance to you that made you believe that the Jesus Bible stories are true?

I saw Jesus once too. I've had many spiritual experiences, but they didn't make me believe the Bible was true.

Was the child in the picture picking fruit sinning? If so, why aren't the birds and insects sinners? Why does the fruit belong to them, but not to us?

windword

Really? Do you think it's easy for a woman, her father or her husband to forgive her rapist or murderer? What if they just can't find it in them?

A parent's punishment is finite and has an end goal, that the child will learn a lesson and be a better person for it. Sending an individual to hell for eternity for not believing something or not being capable of forgiveness and love for some people has no redeeming value.

I know it's no easy task...But Christ wouldn't ask you to do something if you were not capable of it.

This is another one of those things where a "christian" will tell you that you gotta have faith like a mustard seed....just a wee little bit. But yeah, have some faith in our loving and merciful Father that He knows what He is doing...I can't pretend to know His plan...All I know is that I believe in what He's doing. If He feels eternal punishment is necessary then I stand behind that. His ways are far beyond my ways. He's like the absolute grand master of chess and He's playing a game I can't even begin to fathom.

So, no redeeming value....who's to say?

A2D