Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’ within the Church

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The idolatry practicing, child molesting, infant "baptizing", Mary worshiping,works based salvation practicing Catholic church doesn't know the first thing about Jesus. The Catholic church is a false religion... it is the "Great Whore" of Revelation 17:1 the coming AntiChrist will almost certainly be a Pope, OR his false prophet will be a Pope.

Catholics are NOT Christians. The word Christian defines one who follows the ways and teachings of Christ, and BELIEVES the word(s) of Christ. Catholics are anything but this.

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

The idolatry practicing, child molesting, infant "baptizing", Mary worshiping,works based salvation practicing Catholic church doesn't know the first thing about Jesus. The Catholic church is a false religion... it is the "Great Whore" of Revelation 17:1 the coming AntiChrist will almost certainly be a Pope, OR his false prophet will be a Pope.

Catholics are NOT Christians. The word Christian defines one who follows the ways and teachings of Christ, and BELIEVES the word(s) of Christ. Catholics are anything but this.

You forgot murdering, intolerant, fear mongering.

By the way, I do NOT trust those who "interpret the bible" their own way, using different paths than the established Churches. I actually note that those self-acclaimed "bible interpreters", those who THINK they found the "real truth" behind the Bible are often even the most intolerant and MOST nuts/extreme of all of them, even WORSE than the Catholic church.

NoRulesAllowed

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

The idolatry practicing, child molesting, infant "baptizing", Mary worshiping,works based salvation practicing Catholic church doesn't know the first thing about Jesus. The Catholic church is a false religion... it is the "Great Whore" of Revelation 17:1 the coming AntiChrist will almost certainly be a Pope, OR his false prophet will be a Pope.

Catholics are NOT Christians. The word Christian defines one who follows the ways and teachings of Christ, and BELIEVES the word(s) of Christ. Catholics are anything but this.

You forgot murdering, intolerant, fear mongering.

By the way, I do NOT trust those who "interpret the bible" their own way, using different paths than the established Churches. I actually note that those self-acclaimed "bible interpreters", those who THINK they found the "real truth" behind the Bible are often even the most intolerant and MOST nuts/extreme of all of them, even WORSE than the Catholic church.

The converts tend to be the most aggressive zealots. Its like they are making up for lost time or something.

And some people will commit the most heinous crimes if they believe they are morally or spiritually justified to do so. We have a long history of evidence that thoroughly proves that.

NavyDoc

Thanks for those replies. It annoys me when people who are not Catholic try to tell Catholics what they believe--especially if all of their "knowledge" comes form a Jack Trick tract.

Well, I was raised Roman Catholic, loved going to church, loved folk mass, went to church even though my boarding school required we attend the Episcopal church we were affiliated with so I got up at 7am on Sunday and went to Mass first. I said my rosary, loved God, Jesus, and believed wholeheartedly.

I do believe I would have died before I ever denounced faith in Jesus Christ, but I was not a possessed Christian, I was a Professed Christian. I do not hate Catholics, and believe most are raised with a belief system, indoctrination into that system, and are not ever encouraged to really study the bible. I believed the bible, but did not know it. The church gives nice pamphlets out at service that has the scriptures for the day, and we never carried our bibles to church in fact few Catholics I knew ever opened a bible on their own.

Then, a friend gave me a book a month before I was graduating from University called "Lessons from a Sheep Dog" by Phillip Keller. I had a cathartic experience from reading it, and suddenly came into a knowing of Jesus on a personal level. I was alone when it happened, I repented of my sins, invited Jesus to come into my heart and be filled with the Holy Spirit and my life changed overnight.

I was not a miserable person desperately needing salvation because my life sucked so much. I had the world by the tail and my career planned, and it all changed overnight. I had a hunger for the word. My friend gave me an NIV study bible and an Open bible and I read the NIV straight through in 2 weeks. I went to the Lutheran Church that had a folk mass, and the love that emanated from that congregation drew me closer to God. I studied the bible for 8 years for many hours a day, and God led me into amazing opportunities to reach people, and I could go on and on with the witnessing of miracles (healing and deliverance) that the Holy Spirit did using this poor vessel.

In my study, I saw so many errors within the RCC that put road blocks between us and God. I know many sincere Catholics who truly believe they are saved and maybe they are, but their life is not filled with the love and presence of Jesus Christ and they do not exhibit a desire to love only Him first and foremost because you can show them doctrinal errors and they just don't want to see the evidence. They are so dogmatic in THEIR TRUTH they cannot read HIS TRUTH. I can also tell you that it was like dieing for me to accept the truth. I cried and cried because I knew I could no longer support the RCC. Having said all that I do still love the Carmelites, considered at one time becoming a Carmelite nun, but I know now why I did not.

Jesus is our High Priest and the veil in the temple was torn in two for a reason. It is clear we do not need a human intercessor for us. Yes, we confess our sins one to another, but it is not for absolution. It is simple correcting of error and asking for forgiveness for offending each other. If I offend God, then I apologize to God. If I offend you then I apologize to you and ask your forgiveness. If you do not choose to give that to me, then it's obvious we have a veil between us, but it does not make a veil between me and God.

Any believer can cast out demons and heal others in Jesus name otherwise Jesus would not have rebuked his disciples who went to him about a man doing just that. The disciples thought they were special and they were no more special than any other believer, and Jesus rebuked them, so where does the RCC get off saying only a priest can do these things? I am not talking about simple prayer but claiming the office to do such things.

I can go on and on, but I know most people can't bother with long replies, so if you have gotten this far, I believe you understand my heart and what I believe in regards to these things based on the bible. I will add that NO WHERE does the bible say if you baptize someone who has not professed faith that they have some special access to heaven ie infant baptism. It says, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved". I believe the Catholic church cheats young men and women of an incredible experience and soul searching time but teaching they are already baptized and thus don't need to make that ultimate step of faith. Anyway, I have gone on long enough. If you are an RCC person and have never felt the infilling of the Holy Spirit upon confessing Jesus and asking him into your heart, it's there for you. He is very much alive and real.

God bless and peace to all

knowledgehunter
Sounds like this Pope is all about "Hope and Change". Hmmn. Where have i heard that before?

The pope is actually saying the same things after taking office though. Obama has constantly started with a compromise since taking office. If you followed his earlier more honest speeches you see he never gave his honest views a chance.

I'm no fan of the catholic church but so far this pope has remained consistent, publicly anyway. At least he offers what he actually feels while in power.

UnifiedSerenity

NavyDoc

Thanks for those replies. It annoys me when people who are not Catholic try to tell Catholics what they believe--especially if all of their "knowledge" comes form a Jack Trick tract.

Well, I was raised Roman Catholic, loved going to church, loved folk mass, went to church even though my boarding school required we attend the Episcopal church we were affiliated with so I got up at 7am on Sunday and went to Mass first. I said my rosary, loved God, Jesus, and believed wholeheartedly.

I do believe I would have died before I ever denounced faith in Jesus Christ, but I was not a possessed Christian, I was a Professed Christian. I do not hate Catholics, and believe most are raised with a belief system, indoctrination into that system, and are not ever encouraged to really study the bible. I believed the bible, but did not know it. The church gives nice pamphlets out at service that has the scriptures for the day, and we never carried our bibles to church in fact few Catholics I knew ever opened a bible on their own.

Then, a friend gave me a book a month before I was graduating from University called "Lessons from a Sheep Dog" by Phillip Keller. I had a cathartic experience from reading it, and suddenly came into a knowing of Jesus on a personal level. I was alone when it happened, I repented of my sins, invited Jesus to come into my heart and be filled with the Holy Spirit and my life changed overnight.

I was not a miserable person desperately needing salvation because my life sucked so much. I had the world by the tail and my career planned, and it all changed overnight. I had a hunger for the word. My friend gave me an NIV study bible and an Open bible and I read the NIV straight through in 2 weeks. I went to the Lutheran Church that had a folk mass, and the love that emanated from that congregation drew me closer to God. I studied the bible for 8 years for many hours a day, and God led me into amazing opportunities to reach people, and I could go on and on with the witnessing of miracles (healing and deliverance) that the Holy Spirit did using this poor vessel.

In my study, I saw so many errors within the RCC that put road blocks between us and God. I know many sincere Catholics who truly believe they are saved and maybe they are, but their life is not filled with the love and presence of Jesus Christ and they do not exhibit a desire to love only Him first and foremost because you can show them doctrinal errors and they just don't want to see the evidence. They are so dogmatic in THEIR TRUTH they cannot read HIS TRUTH. I can also tell you that it was like dieing for me to accept the truth. I cried and cried because I knew I could no longer support the RCC. Having said all that I do still love the Carmelites, considered at one time becoming a Carmelite nun, but I know now why I did not.

Jesus is our High Priest and the veil in the temple was torn in two for a reason. It is clear we do not need a human intercessor for us. Yes, we confess our sins one to another, but it is not for absolution. It is simple correcting of error and asking for forgiveness for offending each other. If I offend God, then I apologize to God. If I offend you then I apologize to you and ask your forgiveness. If you do not choose to give that to me, then it's obvious we have a veil between us, but it does not make a veil between me and God.

Any believer can cast out demons and heal others in Jesus name otherwise Jesus would not have rebuked his disciples who went to him about a man doing just that. The disciples thought they were special and they were no more special than any other believer, and Jesus rebuked them, so where does the RCC get off saying only a priest can do these things? I am not talking about simple prayer but claiming the office to do such things.

I can go on and on, but I know most people can't bother with long replies, so if you have gotten this far, I believe you understand my heart and what I believe in regards to these things based on the bible. I will add that NO WHERE does the bible say if you baptize someone who has not professed faith that they have some special access to heaven ie infant baptism. It says, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved". I believe the Catholic church cheats young men and women of an incredible experience and soul searching time but teaching they are already baptized and thus don't need to make that ultimate step of faith. Anyway, I have gone on long enough. If you are an RCC person and have never felt the infilling of the Holy Spirit upon confessing Jesus and asking him into your heart, it's there for you. He is very much alive and real.

God bless and peace to all

Shrug. I've heard converts from Protestantism to Catholicism say pretty much the same thing. Everybody has their own path and if your path gives you comfort and solace and hope, I'm happy for you.

reply to post by NavyDoc


I know there are stories of many converts, but you posted a pretty snarky comment about non-Catholics talking about what Catholics believe and chick tracts. That's akin to any denouncing a conservative because in the past some have been racists or into KKK. It's just incendiary to make such a comment.

Shall we really go into bible study in this thread and pick apart the errors of doctrine solely on the word of God? I don't like many Protestant churches either because doctrinal errors are rampant from tongues, rapture, word of faith, Toronto Blessing, misogyny in both groups, and a lack of carrying out the great commission to bless the world, to preach the good news, help the poor, and not covet. The RCC and the big churches are all guilty of this and it is no wonder the world hates us. We are hypocrites par excellence. Judgment starts with the house of God and we are seeing it worldwide. I have no doubt Jesus is coming soon, and many will run to him on that day saying "Lord Lord, we cast out demons, healed the sick and he will say, 'get away from me you workers of iniquity" for he will find them serving anti-Christ when he returns. Why would they do this?

They will do this because will have been fooled by the imposter claiming to be Messiah. Jesus is coming back for a virgin bride and she will be in bed with his twin brother who is the son of perdition and death. Many are called but few are chosen for they heap upon themselves false shepherds and teachers who tell them what they want to hear as they take the broad road leading to destruction. So, if being ideological means I am narrow minded, then I find that a compliment for my Lord's path is narrow and few find it.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

I know there are stories of many converts, but you posted a pretty snarky comment about non-Catholics talking about what Catholics believe and chick tracts. That's akin to any denouncing a conservative because in the past some have been racists or into KKK. It's just incendiary to make such a comment.

Shall we really go into bible study in this thread and pick apart the errors of doctrine solely on the word of God? I don't like many Protestant churches either because doctrinal errors are rampant from tongues, rapture, word of faith, Toronto Blessing, misogyny in both groups, and a lack of carrying out the great commission to bless the world, to preach the good news, help the poor, and not covet. The RCC and the big churches are all guilty of this and it is no wonder the world hates us. We are hypocrites par excellence. Judgment starts with the house of God and we are seeing it worldwide. I have no doubt Jesus is coming soon, and many will run to him on that day saying "Lord Lord, we cast out demons, healed the sick and he will say, 'get away from me you workers of iniquity" for he will find them serving anti-Christ when he returns. Why would they do this?

They will do this because will have been fooled by the imposter claiming to be Messiah. Jesus is coming back for a virgin bride and she will be in bed with his twin brother who is the son of perdition and death. Many are called but few are chosen for they heap upon themselves false shepherds and teachers who tell them what they want to hear as they take the broad road leading to destruction. So, if being ideological means I am narrow minded, then I find that a compliment for my Lord's path is narrow and few find it.

The comment was because so many people do, on this very site, talk about Catholic theology just like it was coming from a Jack Chick tract: from the "death cookie" "to worshiping Mary" " to idoltry" those things are simply not true.

You have a different interpretation of the Bible. That's cool and great, but it is YOUR interpretation...and based on an edited Bible at that. I can easily say exactly the same thing about you...that your have your interpretation all wrong, but I won't because I don't worry myself about if you are wrong or not...that is between you and your god. What bugs me is misrepresentation of other people's beliefs, hence the Jack Chick comment.

NavyDoc

The comment was because so many people do, on this very site, talk about Catholic theology just like it was coming from a Jack Chick tract: from the "death cookie" "to worshiping Mary" " to idoltry" those things are simply not true.

You have a different interpretation of the Bible. That's cool and great, but it is YOUR interpretation...and based on an edited Bible at that. I can easily say exactly the same thing about you...that your have your interpretation all wrong, but I won't because I don't worry myself about if you are wrong or not...that is between you and your god. What bugs me is misrepresentation of other people's beliefs, hence the Jack Chick comment.

Why is you all read a comment and assume it is all encompassing? Maybe you are not familiar with things I have written, but I have studied for over 25 years now using the original languages. I have many bibles, including Catholic. I go back to the original in OT and NT. So much is screwed up on English. I highly recommend everyone interested in this kind of study download a free program that shows each word in it's original meaning and root words they come from. That program is E-Sword.

Then learn about grammar rules because that has a lot to do with keeping the subject matter correct in Greek.

You really are a snarky one to make so many assumptions rather than just have a conversation with me. It seems obvious we are talking at each other instead of with each other, and maybe if we were doing this over coffee things might be different.

Peace

Hahahaha. I gotta laugh at the idiocy of these comments. Anyone who knows anything about the bible will see red flags when the heathenistic world starts to like a Christian. Atheists and agnostics are really some of the dumbest most immortal people in the world. I'm sorry, that's my opinion. Anyone who believes we pop out of a cosmic burp by random chance and blind luck is absolutely brainwashed or willingly ignorant. The bible said the scoffers would come in the last days and you better question your salvation if the worldly can tolerate your morality.

Seriously define traditionalist Catholicism. Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Burning of Witches, the Conquistadors, etc. The Catholic church does not have a peaceful, loving history. If this pope is to redefine it, how would that go against the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament?

You have nearly 1500 years of the Mass being said in the traditional Latin Rite. It was only when the hippies in the 60's implemented Vatican II that the Church saw radical changes to its liturgy, a huge falling away in attendance, and fewer vocations to the priesthood and convent. Decades later, the Church is a gobbly-goop mess.

This Pope is pro-Vatican II. There is a huge war in the Church between the far right conservative block - the traditionalists - and the liberal hippie Vatican II types that want to remake the Church into the Novus Ordo World Religion.

The old school traditionalist side of the Church is up in arms over this Pope.

The Pope is trying to assist in a One World religious and political system coming into power.

Bingo.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


oh i get it. so basically he's condemning the old school types who oppose vatican II.

i dont see how any christian, let alone the so called leader of christianity,(which should be jesus) could accept it.

i means it says that all religions ultimately lead to god (eg. snake charmers, wiccans,satanists, all of them!!)

well not ALL of them.

in over a hundred places it condemns protestants to hell.

pope john paul II actually invited all religions to the vatican (this is where that picture of the pope kissing the koran was taken)

Duskangels
Hahahaha. I gotta laugh at the idiocy of these comments. Anyone who knows anything about the bible will see red flags when the heathenistic world starts to like a Christian. Atheists and agnostics are really some of the dumbest most immoral people in the world. I'm sorry, that's my opinion. Anyone who believes we pop out of a cosmic burp by random chance and blind luck is absolutely brainwashed or willingly ignorant. The bible said the scoffers would come in the last days and you better question your salvation if the worldly can tolerate your morality.

Absolutely spot on! i like the way you think

swanne

adjensen

More and more people are going atheist

edit on 23-10-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)

link or its anti-faith propaganda

some athiests are worse than jehovas witnesses when it comes to hassling you with their religion.


ETA: im not knocking jehovas witnesses or anything i believe we are all brothers and sisters in christ.
whatever differences we have pale in comparison to what we have in common....and thats JESUS!

BubbaJoe

ketsuko
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

Catholic charities, with all of there faults, probably comes the closest to what Jesus truly preached. Protestant churches, from my observations, would rather see their pastors in 1000 dollar suits, and wearing rolex's.

what a ridiculous generalisation! what observation is that? late night tv?

also how can catholic charities come close to what jesus truly preached when they:
worship countless saints(worship is only for GOD)

worship mary and and call her by the names of isis, such as "queen of heaven" and MANY others

call her the redemptrix (basically usurping jesus' rightful place as redeemer)

i can go all day

AfterInfinity
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Merge Christianity with pagan religion? Um, that's how Christianity happened. It's already predominantly pagan. They just choose not to educate followers to that fact, because then those followers would begin to look at those pagan roots and wonder why some ideas that went hand in hand were fractured and polarized for the benefit of the church.

no, that is catholicism. and that zietgiest disinfo has been thoroughly debunked i think youll find.

There aren't many people that I would consider rational human beings that DISLIKE the current pope. As a non Christian and particularly not fond of the Catholic church ( I grew up in it , so this is not irrational dislike for the sake of dislike) I would say Francis is actually the first pope in a very long time ( possibly several centuries) to be what a pope should be. He is very much living up to his chosen name, and is both a healer and a teacher. I wouldn't be surprised if someone takes a shot at him soon. Does he ride around in the Pope-mobile ( the bulletproof box ) or did he scrap that too>

toddy3174

AfterInfinity
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Merge Christianity with pagan religion? Um, that's how Christianity happened. It's already predominantly pagan. They just choose not to educate followers to that fact, because then those followers would begin to look at those pagan roots and wonder why some ideas that went hand in hand were fractured and polarized for the benefit of the church.

no, that is catholicism. and that zietgiest disinfo has been thoroughly debunked i think youll find.

Excuse me? Know you nothing of the paganistic religions or how Christian missionaries throughout human history have slightly adapted the religion to assist it in assimilating populations of converts? google the festival of Yule, and the symbolism of the Easter Bunny real fast. and it's zeitgeist

WakingDream

toddy3174

AfterInfinity
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Merge Christianity with pagan religion? Um, that's how Christianity happened. It's already predominantly pagan. They just choose not to educate followers to that fact, because then those followers would begin to look at those pagan roots and wonder why some ideas that went hand in hand were fractured and polarized for the benefit of the church.

no, that is catholicism. and that zietgiest disinfo has been thoroughly debunked i think youll find.

Excuse me? Know you nothing of the paganistic religions or how Christian missionaries throughout human history have slightly adapted the religion to assist it in assimilating populations of converts? google the festival of Yule, and the symbolism of the Easter Bunny real fast. and it's zeitgeist

You seem to be confusing what he said. YOu see, Jesus / Yeshua did NOT start a new religion. He fulfilled part of Judaism and kept the feasts of the Lord. He took away the Midrash fence around the Law, and in his sacrifice ended the sacrificial system. So, Jesus is a Jew who followed Judaism and told us to walk in his footsteps.

As Rome gained power, they stepped away from the path and got rid of it's Jewish markings by dropping observing the Feasts and brought in their own, and that is when a new religion was started. That is why Catholicism is not Christianity, and quite frankly neither are any of the other denominations that keep these pagan feasts. It's a bastardized form we are comfortable with because it's all we have known, and we are arrogant and unwilling to admit this. God said HIS feasts were perpetual feasts, and we tossed em out in 326 AD. We brought in fertility rituals and anything else to consolidate power, ruin millions of lives, tortured women and men to gain their land and put the people in "sacred" fear of God and His supposed church.

I honestly don't think Jesus will recognize his bride when he returns because she has had a complete worldly make-over.

I want to add here, that I am not judging anyone's soul in this. I do believe there will be a time of great education and choice of obey or not (hopefully out of love and a repentant heart) in His millennial kingdom.

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

The idolatry practicing, child molesting, infant "baptizing", Mary worshiping,works based salvation practicing Catholic church doesn't know the first thing about Jesus. The Catholic church is a false religion... it is the "Great Whore" of Revelation 17:1 the coming AntiChrist will almost certainly be a Pope, OR his false prophet will be a Pope.

Catholics are NOT Christians. The word Christian defines one who follows the ways and teachings of Christ, and BELIEVES the word(s) of Christ. Catholics are anything but this.

An example of what the pope is talking about. People so obsessed with their ideology that they start to forget about the teachings of Jesus.