God does exist.

reply to post by Wertdagf

Let me reiterate. A world in which god does not exist, is consistent with the world we live in.

And let me iterate that it does not prove that "god" does not exist.

It does however show that you would postulate that ALL religious followers are that of the video you posted. I digress~

Furthermore it's my understanding from Infinities: Converting to Atheism OP that went on for god knows how long

It's not that Atheist don't believe in God it's that they can't prove his existence therefore are abstanent from said Religious beliefs.

I haven't read all the comments on here, but I do believe most of you are missing the OP's point, but I also don't think he made it clear enough. The point isn't that Science cannot describe how events occur. That very well is the point of Science is to describe and explain the observable universe. However, just because we can explain something happens, doesn't mean we understand how it was put into motion or know how it was created. For example, the Big Bang explains and describes how the observable universe came to be. but it does not tell us if it was pure chance that the events played out that and tuned the universe for life on this planet, or if it was a plan of supernatural origin.

John Lennox makes a very good point, if you don't believe God created the universe and is eternal, then you believe the universe is eternal. Richard Dawkins says in his book the God Delusion if you say God created the universe, then you have to say who created God? Well let me ask you all who believe the universe created you, who created your creator?
The same logic you use against God, must be turned against your own beliefs as well.


And, as Lennox says, Christians agree with atheist that created Gods are a delusion, we call them Idols...

BlackSunApocalypse
I would like anyone to try answering these questions.... Where does the wind come from?

Ladies and gentlemen, this is ATS 2013. Are you not entertained?

reply to post by estimatedprophet


An antichrist. Really?

I feel almost honored. I may even change my title... You guys really know how to put a lump in a guys throat.

reply to post by sulaw

sulaw
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

Let me reiterate. A world in which god does not exist, is consistent with the world we live in.

And let me iterate that it does not prove that "god" does not exist.

What proof do you have that God exists currently and actively? Please present your proof in full so that we can examine it.

Furthermore it's my understanding from Infinities: Converting to Atheism OP that went on for god knows how long

Your understanding that...what? The nonexistence of a deity cannot be proven? It has not been, certainly. I wouldn't say it cannot be. I would also assert that the probability that a conscious and distinct ruling divine power does not exist has been more than adequately substantiated. None of the probabilities offered in defense of a higher power in this thread have been conclusively determined in favor of that higher power's factual existence.

It's not that Atheist don't believe in God it's that they can't prove his existence therefore are abstanent from said Religious beliefs.

It's not that we can't prove the existence of a god...it's that we believe there is no god to prove the existence of. Furthermore, I find myself highly concerned with the values and virtues and principles that are lauded by major religions of the world today. One of the most disturbing trends I've noted is the denigration of the human race. We are worthless, we are despicable, we are impure and therefore undeserving of existence, etc. This, in my mind, is a psychological tactic intended specifically to prevent us from ever being happy with who and what we are. Unhappy sheep are the best sheep of all, because they need medicine to make them feel better. That's when you pop up and say, "Hey there, unhappy sheep! I have here a miraculous medicine that will make every ill go away! Better hurry and get some now, because I'm the only provider and I won't be around forever!"

1. Instill a sense of loss
2. Announce a treatment for loss
3. Make an arrangement
4. Ration
5. Return to step one.

The perpetual guilt machine. Basic psychology. Because of that, even if your god was real, I would reject him straight off because I don't like corporate jackals. What was that saying? Those who sell essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both? Yeah. I thought that would ring a bell.

All these recent one liner creationist threads remind me of American presidents winning votes and applause by simply uttering ''God bless America'' like it was some holy grail...and the masses followed (regardless of how terrible their politics).

If you actually wanted a serious discussion, an intellectual argument or theory would be proposed.

Presumably it's another exclamation of belief disguised as a forum thread...yawn!

Some are interested in the actual fact and intricacies of how the universe came to be and the machinations therein.

It's not that we can't prove the existence of a god...it's that we believe there is no god to prove the existence of.

Finally, one of you admits atheism is a faith based ideology. You cannot prove he exist nor can you disprove he exist. You are taking on faith that because you can describe the way the world works, and even how the observable universe came into being, that it wasn't orchestrated from a supernatural being outside this dimension of existence. Which means you have a lot more faith than me by believing it was sheer coincidence that the conditions by the Big Bang were favorable for life on your planet, instead of proof of intelligent design.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

Finally, one of you admits atheism is a faith based ideology. You cannot prove he exist nor can you disprove he exist.

Hold your horses, good sir. Let me put it to you this way: it requires more faith to believe in a god than it does to disbelieve in one. Which, in another way of explaining it, means there is more evidence in support of atheism than there is in support of theism.

You are taking on faith that because you can describe the way the world works, and even how the observable universe came into being, that it wasn't orchestrated from a supernatural being outside this dimension of existence.

No, I'm taking it on calculated probability. And calculated probability tells me that your God is more a psychological construct designed for mass manipulation than a real live entity.

Which means you have a lot more faith than me by believing it was sheer coincidence that the conditions by the Big Bang were favorable for life on your planet, instead of proof of intelligent design.

Hmm, a lot more faith you say? As opposed to this?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I do know that, i do. My apologies if it offended you. Anyone can be kind, no matter their belief

I didn't mean that in a bad way, but i admit i spoke to soon. It was a mail i received, and it seemed like a good time to use those words. Encouraging for Christians.

Clearly it wasn't a good time, as i am being compared to some person in the westboro baptist church.

LightOrange
What an adorably poetic fallacy you've put forth here.

Is that you, Shirley Phelps?

It is sad that you see all Christians in this way. Fortunately, i know, i am nothing like them.

BlackSunApocalypse
Can scientist create water?

Two Hydrogen atoms and one Oxygen atom. It's pretty basic, really.

alienreality

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by alienreality


I know God exists,

No you don't.

Yes I absolutely do know.. How can you presume to tell another person what they know or don't know?

Your ignorance is quite amusing.

Because absolute knowledge can be objectively verified independent of the individual making the claim, which your claim can not. What you claim to "know" is not considered knowledge, but instead a delusion based on faith.

reply to post by BlackSunApocalypse

Where does the wind come from? Who put the wind in motion?

The Sun mostly, air pressure, temperatures, jet stream all kind of factors play in the wind's "motion".

Who put the seasons in motion?

The Sun, Earth and Moon did that...

Who created the water?

The Sun, Earth and Moon since those 3 things put together create life and you can't have life without water.

Where does knowledge come from?

Experiences.

If you looking for God you don't have to look anywhere but below your feet. Like I said the Sun, Earth and Moon creates life...there are your god's. When you die your energy absorbs into the Earth where it came from and the Earth will give birth to a new person. There is no heavenly father/son fighting a devil over your souls.

Where does wind come from? Fantastic question, I too have long pondered this.
I'd also like to know why the color red is red, and lastly, if we evolved from monkeys
then why don't we throw our poo at each other anymore?

reply to post by paradox

paradox
Because absolute knowledge can be objectively verified independent of the individual making the claim, which your claim can not. What you claim to "know" is not considered knowledge, but instead a delusion based on faith.

Just because YOU can't objectively verify his claim doesn't mean someone else can't.

I have personally had similar experiences which led me to the same exact conclusion.

Just like him, I no longer just believe, I KNOW.

Don't be so quick to label someone delusional when in fact you yourself are allowing yourself to be deluded.

His "delusion" has absolutely NOTHING to do with faith.

Neither does mine.

paradox

alienreality

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by alienreality


I know God exists,

No you don't.

Yes I absolutely do know.. How can you presume to tell another person what they know or don't know?

Your ignorance is quite amusing.

Because absolute knowledge can be objectively verified independent of the individual making the claim, which your claim can not. What you claim to "know" is not considered knowledge, but instead a delusion based on faith.

edit on 9-5-13 by paradox because: (no reason given)

Most scientific theories are also delusions based on faith then, even atheism is..

I don't have any delusions, but you are free to think and believe anything you want..

ZeddyZed
if we evolved from monkeys then why don't we throw our poo at each other anymore?

You've never did this in school? Man have you missed out

BlackSunApocalypse
I'm not against science in any way, I've said numerous times I'm against the abuse of science. You can't deny the abuse of the atom and the negative effects it's had and still having on everyone's lives. What makes you think science will live on forever? It won't. Science and it's discoveries will continue to be abused, and the result will be our inevitable destruction. You're speaking against fantasy, but what makes you think you aren't living a fantasy? If we really perceived reality there would be no need for analyzing. Doesn't that make sense to you?

So you're admitting science works when abused by people, but science has no place when used for prosperity at which point God has stepped in and is responsible for it....I'm lost now

Btw for the record, you are acknowledging through science we can split atoms resulting in devastating consequences but we can't even figure out how to get water out of a simple reaction?

I've been reading the "system" of life you propose, and really, I do find it interesting, I think it works in many aspects of peoples lives, and it does lead to some degree of growth. But such a system has unfortunately failed in exposing higher truths, you know, considering ALL the evidence mounting and pointing to "Gods", all the religions etc, I would say it really is overwhelming to the atheist point of view. People have given "accounts" (oral or written) of supernatural experiences, other dimensions of existence which modern day degenerate humans, crippled with trepidation and(with their limited perception) cannot see. You said people should become proactive to certain situations, if weak, they should look to become stronger, finite, they should broaden horizons, if ignorant, look to know more. Isn't that what I alluded to when I said people strive for more? For better? For perfection? It's about transforming every weakness into a strength, and obviously, our greatest weakness is FEAR. Imagine a people without fear? We don't need a system of proactive self determinism, we need a system to overcome fear. We are terribly afraid human beings, and that's because we feel so frail. People have felt frail for thousands of years. In the times we currently live in, fear reigns. Why are nations arming themselves with powerful modern weapons? It is FEAR. They fear being attacked. Now you see, the greater "modern technology" becomes, the greater FEAR will become, and I can assure you, this is an absolute truth. Fear will ultimately destroy the nations, it is already destroying many people who wage wars (even in homes) through fear. Now God, the Most High is One without Fear, many accounts have been given of this fearless God, why does God not have fear? Because God is Love, He Loves unconditionally. Jesus was a perfect example. Why is Love the most powerful known force in the universe? The problem is understanding the meaning of love, and if we want that, all we need do is look at the Passion of Christ. Even if Jesus didn't exist and the story was "made up", it deserves all the credit. Now many people don't dislike the Revelations because of the concept of hell, but what it really says is, if you don't behave in a loving/compassionate manner toward your fellowmen, if you never choose to repent (the door of repentance is always open) and to love your fellowmen, you will always live in fear, in anguish, in pain. So truthfully, people create their own hell. But Love, love is something very profound, very hard to attain, only in the absence of fear can Love (God) reign in ones heart.

The country with the most powerful army has the greatest Fear, and the least Love. That country is America. In a country FILLED with loving people, what is there to fear? The poor people may come, we'll forget ourselves and feed them, the terrorist may come, why would he want to hurt people who love him? If everyone had love (not fear), I can assure you, there would be no need for armies or protection. And if this system of Love can thrive, we'll end up laughing at even death.

Originally posted by alienreality

Most scientific theories are also delusions based on faith then, even atheism is..

No they aren't, they are based on objective, observable evidence, and atheism is simply a rejection of delusions based on a lack of verifiable objective evidence. It has nothing to do with faith.

I don't have any delusions, but you are free to think and believe anything you want..

Ok.