America - are you ready for your next Civil War?

I'm asking this seriously, with a healthy dose of respect for you guys across the pond, and it is based on what I read on ATS on a daily basis

America - are you ready for your next Civil War ?

I ask quite simply because when I read the rhetoric on ATS, it appears its coming.

Now I realise that ATS is a microcosm, representing extreme views in some cases, but what I see is kind of scary.

• There is a certain culture apparent the US that idolises your military and believes it can do no wrong.
  
• Certain parts of your military appear to be starting to base their decision to serve on politics
  
• There is a culture that hates the police.
  
• Your politicial system is very slowly (faster every day it seems) being eroded into a hate fest based on absolutes and there appears to be very little common ground. Presidents are simply hate figures (and that works for both sides, Obama is hated as much as Bush was)
  
• You have a deep distrust of government in any form
  
• You have an economy that is struggling under the weight of what it is carrying
  
• Unemployment is high in some areas and people are struggling to get by
  
• Tensions between ethnic groups appear to be at a new high.
  

In short, its something of a powder keg waiting to blow, and all people appear to seem to be interested in doing is donning right/left political blinkers and bickering with each other - trying to push the blame as far to the other side as possible - instead of working together to sort things out.

History doesn't paint a kind picture to such situations globally, and suggests that when a tipping point is reached, such vitriol turns to violence.

So the question is a simple one - when the powder keg blows will you be happy? When - say - one side of the arguments A-10's are strafing your neighbourhood, or the other side has roadblocks and checkpoints set up in your city streets and tanks demolishing homes and ghettoising the opposition, ethnic groups and anyone else they don't like will you be reveling in your reluctance to discuss matters and simply hate the other side of the argument? When a couple of your cities start to look like Damascus does now, will you simply be still wanting to hate the other persons viewpoint with nothing but vitriol?

Maybe what I postulate here is extreme. But that seems to be where it's headed based on what I read. If its not, then fair enough, I stand corrected - but if it isn't then I'd ask you to read what you write again before you do it, because it sure as hell seems to be sliding that way slowly.

I realise that upon reading this some folks out there will simply try and label this as anti-american. If thats all you take from the above then you've missed the point entirely, and there are likely rocks outside in your garden you can bang together to make you happy.

I realise that upon reading this some folks out there will try and belittle my nationality. If all you can resort to is BS stereotyping to the level of a child then that is your problem. My country isn't perfect at all. I accept that, but the points above aren't about my country (which may indeed head the same way) - its about yours.

What I'm, after here is some thought, and maybe some answers to the extreme viewpoints I'm seeing and maybe some common ground between the left/right paradigm. I'm not going to reference threads where I see this stuff - all you have to do is read the forums and you'll find it.

So, how about some considered thought and some answers?

There is a certain culture apparent the US that idolises your military and believes it can do no wrong.
Certain parts of your military appear to be starting to base their decision to serve on politics
There is a culture that hates the police.
Your politicial system is very slowly (faster every day it seems) being eroded into a hate fest based on absolutes and there appears to be very little common ground. Presidents are simply hate figures (and that works for both sides, Obama is hated as much as Bush was)
You have a deep distrust of government in any form
You have an economy that is struggling under the weight of what it is carrying
Unemployment is high in some areas and people are struggling to get by
Tensions between ethnic groups appear to be at a new high.

Seems pretty accurate.

The media plays a role.

I disagree about Civil War....At least I hope you are wrong.

IF it blows, I will not be happy.

It should not happen until all other avenues have been explored, if at the point the System truly has stopped working after we have tried to do something about it, well so be it.

But if we have gotten to that point out of frustration combined with lazy apathy, we are all doomed. If a generation that couldn't be bothered to Protest, to form political action groups, and write their Reps on a constant basis, to not bother to do the minimum required as a citizen of this republic... Well thats a quick route to marshal law and Tyranny.


IF we set aside our differences, and say with one voice NO MORE, we could change the US and the world today. Instead we stand divided by Race, Creed, Social Class, we argue about all the issues that don't matter, and we ignore the one that does.

Liberty, we have allowed our government to become the enemy of free thinking people everywhere, WE allowed it, and WE allow it to continue.

All it takes is us saying enough and doing the bare minimum required of a Citizen, Voting the scum out.

Politics at any time in US history has been heated and derisive - since the beginning

There is no alternative force to have a civil war with. I think you mean an insurgency or 'terrorist' attempt to disrupt the country.

Your list covers things that have happen multiple times during US history but no civil war

As the supporters of Ron Paul found out, a large vocal, inspire group still cannot get enough votes

You would need a group of people with the same ideas and organised

The last civil war was between states, ie governments, not a French style revolution

reply to post by neformore


Not sure I agree with the general premise, sounds like more fire-stokeing.

While I have to agree that there are many disagreements, maybe even more than normal. I don't think it bodes ill for the future. On the contrary, it indicates an increase in civil discourse which we have been in dire need of for a long time.

Let's talk!

reply to post by neformore


Nef, I believe it was much worse in 60's actually. Vietnam War, Radicals everywhere, Segregation,etc..... The only thing different now is the Media and its role. The same Government we had back then has been in control for some time. You're just seeing and hearing about it more cause of how information is shared. If we have a civil war here, which I highly doubt will happen, it would bring the rest of the World into it. Personally, we need some sort of change here, and in the World in general.

reply to post by neformore


In order to have a civil war, you need two opposing sides.

I'd say more but my food (bought by foodstamps) is cooking on the grill in my kitchen (section 8 housing) and I have a call on my (Obama)phone. Plus Idol is coming on and I can't miss that!

People won't revolt until they are hungry and live in the dark. And by then it'll be too late.

Originally posted by neformore
I'm asking this seriously, with a healthy dose of respect for you guys across the pond, and it is based on what I read on ATS on a daily basis

America - are you ready for your next Civil War ?

I ask quite simply because when I read the rhetoric on ATS, it appears its coming.

Now I realise that ATS is a microcosm, representing extreme views in some cases, but what I see is kind of scary.

• There is a culture that hates the police.
  
• You have a deep distrust of government in any form
  
• You have an economy that is struggling under the weight of what it is carrying
  
• Unemployment is high in some areas and people are struggling to get by
  
• Tensions between ethnic groups appear to be at a new high.
  

In short, its something of a powder keg waiting to blow, and all people appear to seem to be interested in doing is donning right/left political blinkers and bickering with each other - trying to push the blame as far to the other side as possible - instead of working together to sort things out.

This isn't just an American issue, we are seeing this on a global scale. As far as the police and government for a great part they have betrayed the people they are supposed to serve. Hopefully they will reap what they sow.

Doubtful if there will be a civil war in the US because people are too asleep or simply divided on so many issues you could never get a large enough group to agree on much.

Civil unrest on a massive scale is another matter. That would only take cutting off food stamps or welfare. That is also what Homeland looks to be preparing for.

Great thread and after some thought I would say there is one big difference this time round, I think in most developed countries, apathy will defeat any chance of civil war.

While people have their comforts, civil war seems impossible, take away the comforts (TV, homes, food, entertainment etc) and then people may loose their apathy and take a more active role in issues they have.

I agree with all your points though

reply to post by neformore


Obama fan trying to dispel the guilt he feels! Almost 99 percent of the time when a poster brings up bush you can tell. The writing is on the wall now for neo-cons and progressive democrats. The issues in the USA and how our citizens feel about our government is because we expect more out of our government and they let us down again and again! There are striking similarities between the USA and England with every issue you presented and not to sound like a jerk but the pot needs to stop calling the kettle black! The powder keg might blow or people might fold like a cheap deck of cards and just allow the crap to go on. What ever the situation we will handle it

I have to disagree about civil war, however, if they ever outlaw the internet, fast food and cable, that's a different story.

reply to post by neformore

Yeah what is coming is a Government reduced to Monkey work, and an uncontrollable set of people. Every change or revolution in the cycle generates more torsion and chaos to the point of egress. Keep on keeping on, trying to get a handle on the situation and the more variability you will introduce. The universe does not put up with tyranny.

It wouldn't be another Civil War but more like a Revolution. A revolt against the government is what I think will happen before it will be another brother against brother conflict. Although I do see that could happen if a member of your family is in the military which now opposes you.

There are always going to be the ones who stay and fights just because they are told to while others will leave because they oppose what is happening to the masses.

Am I ready for another Revolution? I like to think I am, but I'm not. I have two boys and that is who I'm afraid for.

A10s fly over a state armed? Who would do that? Marines use Harriers and F18s...more vulnerable to ground fire,vulnerable in WHATEVER base they land on for having done that.
Not that is would matter,and ah, a civil war would be fought as an expression of extreme displeasure that has been building .I give you "Betrayal Guilt" and build on that idea.www.youtube.com...
'Fed up" isn't happy its a sense time to fix it.
Americans are the "Capt Kirks" of the planet militarily. We win...always or we get killed,them's the breaks

If Rangel has his way YOU can play in Syria too, boys AND girls are wanted for the draft since Syria might be a protracted fight.
Now some smarmy kids can see what we are talking about. Me? I'm against Syria,I doubt the younger generation can handle it. And let somebody else foot the bill for policing up these warcrimes,we need to regroup our collective s#!t. So we DON'T have a civil war.

Hmm.

What I'm seeing so far is that people are generally of the opinion that what we see here on ATS is just keyboard talk?

Originally posted by neformore
Hmm.

What I'm seeing so far is that people are generally of the opinion that what we see here on ATS is just keyboard talk?

More like wishful thinking, I would imagine.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


OK... so people are wishing for a Civil War?

Why?

And why aren't they doing anything about it?

reply to post by beezzer

Yeah ... what Beezzer said.
It won't happen until the free stuff is cut off.
Then the inner cities will run wild.

Are we ready? Well ... we are as ready as we can be.
Most people aren't. And a good chunk of the left is afraid to arm themselves.
I literally have relatives (all far left) who cringe if they see a gun.
They'll die. I'll live.

Originally posted by neformore
What I'm seeing so far is that people are generally of the opinion that what we see here on ATS is just keyboard talk?

ATS isn't a cross section of America. It's a certain segment that is drawn here by certain subjects and interests. Most middle class people in this country don't think there will be civil war. But if you ask the same question of the inner city, I'd bet the exact opposite answer would happen. I'd bet most of them think there will be .. and it'll be race/money based.

IMHO

reply to post by neformore


With todays State Of The Art Technology , Nothing goes Unnoticed BTPTB , even Sedation and Revolution Unless those in the Middle or Lower Echelons of the Governing System suddenly Develope a Conscious of the Unnatural Order of Things in our Society Today . Case in Point , Mr. Edward Joseph Snowden .......