If created perfect as scriptures say, why would we need salvation?

Originally posted by Greatest I am

I do a lot of teaching because my Father and I are One. All of my teachings come from my Christ Self and Divine Consciousness, which is my Higher Self. I don't claim ascension yet, but I AM that I AM.

You have just taken the usual esoteric stories and put you own slant on things.

Proof of your delusion is placing those that you have named in heaven.

Spirit guides, if I can use that term, guide. They do not name names.

Those who know of spiritual matters know that there is no such thing as a divine consciousness.

You are calling yourself divine. How sad for you.

Regards
DL


You are Divine too, as well as all other human beings here. The only difference is that you have forgotten your true self. Have you not heard me say that all are One?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ctophil

 

And you know this because you know more than everyone else?

I don't compare myself to anyone, for when you do, it is also pride. The Heavenly Hosts don't going around comparing each other. They complement each other as One. We are all unique, there is no point in comparing.

reply to post by ctophil


I am in concurrance with all you have said, understand your viewpoint as it is mine as well, and beautifully set forth in your observations and conclusions. I have nothing to add but thanks for sharing this with others and Greatest I Am providing a forum for the ideaforms. Its all good dialoge, inspiring and genuine.

Originally posted by ctophil

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ctophil

 

And you know this because you know more than everyone else?

I don't compare myself to anyone, for when you do, it is also pride. The Heavenly Hosts don't going around comparing each other. They complement each other as One. We are all unique, there is no point in comparing.

Itisnowagain; we all realize you live in the moment (perpetual Groundhog Day the movie, as that is hilarious) and cannot exist past or future which allows you to ask FAIR questions of an individual that will have to look to the INTERNAL self, rather observations made (past,future). Do you look to your internal knowledge and how would you catagorize it? MEMORY? (past) Idealistic (future). Does your present allow for modification/the intrusion of all other things beyond your control, (sneaky thoughtforms I call them) because I am bombarded with the past future likelihoods and would like to anihliate all extra random thought activity (you realize your name is very Buddhist in nature). We are all unique as we are supposed to be: as different expressions of the ONE.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Does your present allow for modification/the intrusion of all other things beyond your control, (sneaky thoughtforms I call them) because I am bombarded with the past future likelihoods and would like to anihliate all extra random thought activity.

Thought forms now (the forming of everything is now) and is seen now - they arise with no control - no one is doing them. They speak of that which they know nothing about (future).
If you want to annihilate the thoughts that arise then that is the suffering. Resisting life, running away from what is, is the denial of the light of consciousness. Thought arising is just words (God is the word) that tell a story about 'other' - 'other' than now (past, future and somewhere else) - thought happens always presently and that is fine but the trouble starts when the story is believed. The story is always told in truth (presence) but speaks of another - when really there is no other. It is just about realizing that you are not stretched over time - that in fact you are always present with stories appearing. The stories (thoughts of other times) happen but are seen to be amusement. It is only when one is lost in the story of me in time that there can be suffering.
What is wrong with right now.......................unless you think about something that is not really here now? Even if thinking happens now - can any thought harm what you are? Thought cannot arise without the present being. I would just like to say - thought is not the enemy - it can deliver amazing insights but it can also be very deceptive - it can lead one astray. Who are the thoughts speaking about when they talk about you?

The whole point is that there is no 'me in time'. There is only now and I am never separate from it and nor are you - you just think you are.
The illusion that you are separate and divided from all that is comes from the belief in the thoughts/concept of 'before' and after'.
This is the beginning and end right here and right now eternally.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Get the quote or you will also be seen as lying.

Genesis 3:4
"You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman.
(2011 NIV)
That was a lie according to the story because Adam and Eve both die, later on, in the story.
I didn't write the story, it's in the Bible and apparently has been in it for a long time before I was born.

Reading rather literally for one who does not read literally aren't you?

That aside.

Do you know the difference between just dying and being murdered by neglect?

Let's get literal.

If You live 900 odd years after an act, can you say that that act killed you?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

If you sacrifice yourself to yourself, how is that a sacrifice?

Your examples show you giving up something of value for something of less value. A lose which is what sacrifice is.

What did Jesus/God give up that had value when he was just giving it to himself?

The sacrifice wasn't for God's gain, it was for our gain. God gave up a piece of himself in order that the rest of us would be able to spend eternity with him in a perfect place with incorruptible bodies rather than just returning to the dust of the earth.

So God demanded his son's death to give man something that he could have given without a barbaric blood sacrifice.

You cannot be stupid enough to believe your own B S.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

His angels?

Were they not God's angels?

They were God's angels first until they decided to exercise their free will and follow Satan instead. Then they became Satan's angels. A third of God's angels will choose to follow Satan before it's all said and done. Does the name Lucifer ring a bell?

Absolutely. Pure myth.

So your God loses a third of those who know him on sight, --- and the vast majority of humans that do not and are sent to hell for non-belief and you follow such an immoral God. Congratulations on your Satanic choice.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by ctophil

Originally posted by Greatest I am

I do a lot of teaching because my Father and I are One. All of my teachings come from my Christ Self and Divine Consciousness, which is my Higher Self. I don't claim ascension yet, but I AM that I AM.

You have just taken the usual esoteric stories and put you own slant on things.

Proof of your delusion is placing those that you have named in heaven.

Spirit guides, if I can use that term, guide. They do not name names.

Those who know of spiritual matters know that there is no such thing as a divine consciousness.

You are calling yourself divine. How sad for you.

Regards
DL

edit on 11-8-2013 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)

You are Divine too, as well as all other human beings here. The only difference is that you have forgotten your true self. Have you not heard me say that all are One?


Nothing is divine that has not been named so by men.

If we are all divine then no one is special at all. Not even God.

Naming those in heaven make you a literalist and an idol worshiper.

There is nothing you can teach anyone.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


God has his reasons for why he does what he does. That doesn't mean we have to understand every single one of them. God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts and his ways are higher than our ways.

For some reason, the blood that keeps human flesh alive had to be cleansed from our corrupted bodies in order to make way for our incorruptible bodies that are coming.

Leviticus 17:10-14

10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

reply to post by Greatest I am

If You live 900 odd years after an act, can you say that that act killed you?

Yes. If Adam and Eve had not eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, they would have been given access to the Tree of Life for eternity so that they would never have died. After they sinned, they were banned from eating from the Tree of Life ever again.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

If You live 900 odd years after an act, can you say that that act killed you?

Yes. If Adam and Eve had not eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, they would have been given access to the Tree of Life for eternity so that they would never have died. After they sinned, they were banned from eating from the Tree of Life ever again.

The story of Adam and Eve represents you. If you believe (eat from the tree of) knowledge instead of what all knowledge arises in (life/you/this) you have missed the mark.

Presence is where all knowledge arises and presence is where it subsides. But knowledge is held as king but the real king is presence.
Life is alive now.

Christ said: 'I am (present tense) the life, the truth and the way'.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Christ also said: "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." (John 11:25-26)

and...

John 14:2-3

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

and...

Matthew 24:35-36

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Christ also said: "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." (John 11:25-26)

Christ is this moment that is appearing. The mistake is believing in any 'thing' other that what is appearing - concepts like 'past' and future' are appearances appearing in presence - they are just words. However, when the word 'tomorrow' arises there seems to be a person projected on to that imaginary stage called 'tomorrow' or 'yesterday' or even five minutes ago (that person does not exist). Even the thought that you are separate is a concept.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

No man can know this moment of presence - because 'man' is a concept. Concepts appear in this moment - concepts can't see or hear.

This moment of presence is only ever knowing itself.
All seeing, all knowing and ever present.

reply to post by Deetermined

There is only suffering when there is a belief in 'other'. This is it - there is nothing else but the mind speaks of other.

reply to post by Greatest I am

Reading rather literally for one who does not read literally aren't you?

My approach towards interpretation is to first understand what it says literally, before jumping off into speculation.
Some people don't bother, and feel their defective comprehension is good enough, then go from that.

Do you know the difference between just dying and being murdered by neglect?

The idea in the story is that they would never die, if they maintained the proper behavior as spelled out by The Lord.

Let's get literal.
If You live 900 odd years after an act, can you say that that act killed you?

It is in the literal world according to the story.
I think that the whole thing (everything before Abraham) is a very late addition since you can't find any reference to it in any of the rest of the Old Testament. So it was added to explain the situation in post-Babylonian exile Judea, and what the source of that catastrophe was, which was the neglect of the official state religion, which was making offerings to the temple of Jerusalem.

reply to post by Greatest I am

So God demanded his son's death to give man something that he could have given without a barbaric blood sacrifice.

The "barbaric" act was on the part of the forces of evil.
In the movie, The Passion of Christ, you see this "evil" personified as this creepy looking man with a hooded cloak, wondering around the perimeters of the action, watching, with the idea that he was influencing events by giving telepathic suggestions to the various participants.
People are supposed to understand this in a particular way, which is that Evil thought that he was going to win by killing Jesus and utterly humiliating him.
What really happened was that Evil was shown to be just that, through the actions that he thought he could put the blame for on other people, all the way from Judas, up to Ceasar.
This is something that could not have been brought out in any clearer way than the way that it was in the crucifixion of Christ.
The other thing that goes with that judgment on Evil that the events do, is to make a judgment on ourselves through the person of Jesus, that he took upon himself all our weaknesses and signs of failure, and was vindicated despite that, which opens the way to our own vindication at the ends of our lives despite our past weaknesses and failings.

reply to post by Greatest I am

If created perfect as scriptures say, why would we need salvation?

Because children are perfect in their beauty,as we are like children for Creation.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
reply to post by ctophil

 

I am in concurrance with all you have said, understand your viewpoint as it is mine as well, and beautifully set forth in your observations and conclusions. I have nothing to add but thanks for sharing this with others and Greatest I Am providing a forum for the ideaforms. Its all good dialoge, inspiring and genuine.

edit on 11-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

It is our pleasure to serve others. For when we serve others, we also serve ourselves. The greatest among us is the least, and the least among us is the greatest. The greatest servant among us is the Creator Himself. With this knowledge, you no need to thank me, for when I serve you, I am serving myself. The Universe is a mirror that reflects back what you do. As I continue to teach and speak, I AM greeting you all as God meets God. Namaste.

reply to post by Greatest I am

why would we need salvation?

For some it would be ego, pride, and the desire to judge God himself, along with a steadfast refusal to repent for sins, even the sin of arrogance, and the sins of omission (that we are not even aware of).

Some would actually try to place God in the dock and themselves in the Judge's seat. Such a one is worse, perhaps much worse off, than a mere sinner who is repentant.

Reminds me of the repentant sinner and the Publican.

There's a tendency for man to either get mired in the muck of sinful conduct, or, perhaps worse, to rise up only to play out, yet again the age old myth of the fall where it may be said that pride always goeth before the fall.

Count me in on both counts as in need of salvation, and there is my salvation, in humility and self-awareness as to one's own limitations and character defects, but for some, it would appear, there is no help because they are unwilling to ask, unwilling to repent, unwilling to humble themselves.

"He who exalts himself WILL be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Pride of man, in short, who, instead of working in partnership WITH God wants to either ascend to BE God, or, replace God with himself, which is so ridiculous, and so absurd, it would be funny if it weren't so abhorrent and at some level, disgusting and quite disgraceful.

Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

And the first shall be last, and the last, first. But good luck to some in ultimately finding and discovering their rightful place in line.. oh the joy, and, the sorrow...

and the humor!