If created perfect as scriptures say, why would we need salvation?

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The tree of knowledge is the symbol for "ENLIGHTENMENT" nothing other. There was no "mind of man" before the symbolic eating of its fruit. The tree COULD represent God if God stepped up and protected the shills, Adam and Eve (IDEAFORM) There was never a "mind" until the partaking/consumption of the "fruit of God" (enlightenment) calling the human into existance. The Serpent NEVER lied, they lived within its domaine (created there) (garden) after inception.

God meant no thing; as God is expressing itself through the EGO of the human and therefore death of those bodies minds would negate its reason for creating them as OWN expression. Why would it trick itself into life eternal when it already knows this is a fact? Spirit/soul is everlasting indestructable.

Yes, the "Mind of Man" existed back then as it does today. You see, Adam and Eve, though a long time ago (estimated millions of years ago, despite the church saying it's 6,000 years ago), were NOT the first human beings. Humans existed way before them in an even higher consciousness than Adam and Eve. In fact, there were millions of people already in all planes of existence at that time. They weren't alone as depicted by the Christian Churches and others. Adam and Eve symbolized the Fallen Mind of human beings, although there were many others who had the Fallen Mind or Fallen Consciousness I keep mentioning during that time and times beforehand. It was just an example, not an inception of mankind. As I said before, the Soul (and thus created the Ego) was created by YOU--the Conscious Self. It did not come from Heaven. Therefore it is NOT immortal and must die in order for you to ascend back to Heaven. Remember when I said the Ego and Mind of Man as the same thing?

To clarify things a bit more, the Spirit and Soul are very different things. Don't get confused. I just described the Soul above and previous posts. But the Spirit is the God Spark inside of you. If you raise your consciousness high enough, it will turn into the Tri-Flame of God. The Spirit came from Heaven (Consciousness of God) and therefore it can and will come back to Heaven.

Yes, there are many gods in Heaven. This includes the Angels, Ascended Beings, The Elohim, The Chohans, The Alphas and Omegas, The Planetary Logos, The Solar Logos, and so forth. Everytime when the Bible mentions "God," it was talking about one of the gods. These can also be our teachers and messengers of ascension as you may call it. But they are just outer teachers. Your true teacher is always inside of you. They are there to jumpstart your understanding of God. You are God as well--a god in the making. Don't get confused with the Creator Himself with these gods who once had to walk the path of Higher Consciousness just like everybody else.

My job is to help others shatter their current mental box or paradigm of thoughts and beliefs. We have so many layers of false beliefs and paradigms (The Mind of Man) that it takes quite a bit to get rid of. As I said, you must transcend yourself every day. Detach from all Earthly things.

Originally posted by ctophil

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The tree of knowledge is the symbol for "ENLIGHTENMENT" nothing other. There was no "mind of man" before the symbolic eating of its fruit. The tree COULD represent God if God stepped up and protected the shills, Adam and Eve (IDEAFORM) There was never a "mind" until the partaking/consumption of the "fruit of God" (enlightenment) calling the human into existance. The Serpent NEVER lied, they lived within its domaine (created there) (garden) after inception.

God meant no thing; as God is expressing itself through the EGO of the human and therefore death of those bodies minds would negate its reason for creating them as OWN expression. Why would it trick itself into life eternal when it already knows this is a fact? Spirit/soul is everlasting indestructable.

Yes, the "Mind of Man" existed back then as it does today. You see, Adam and Eve, though a long time ago (estimated millions of years ago, despite the church saying it's 6,000 years ago), were NOT the first human beings. Humans existed way before them in an even higher consciousness than Adam and Eve. In fact, there were millions of people already in all planes of existence at that time. They weren't alone as depicted by the Christian Churches and others. Adam and Eve symbolized the Fallen Mind of human beings, although there were many others who had the Fallen Mind or Fallen Consciousness I keep mentioning during that time and times beforehand. It was just an example, not an inception of mankind. As I said before, the Soul (and thus created the Ego) was created by YOU--the Conscious Self. It did not come from Heaven. Therefore it is NOT immortal and must die in order for you to ascend back to Heaven. Remember when I said the Ego and Mind of Man as the same thing?

To clarify things a bit more, the Spirit and Soul are very different things. Don't get confused. I just described the Soul above and previous posts. But the Spirit is the God Spark inside of you. If you raise your consciousness high enough, it will turn into the Tri-Flame of God. The Spirit came from Heaven (Consciousness of God) and therefore it can and will come back to Heaven.

Yes, there are many gods in Heaven. This includes the Angels, Ascended Beings, The Elohim, The Chohans, The Alphas and Omegas, The Planetary Logos, The Solar Logos, and so forth. Everytime when the Bible mentions "God," it was talking about one of the gods. These can also be our teachers and messengers of ascension as you may call it. But they are just outer teachers. Your true teacher is always inside of you. They are there to jumpstart your understanding of God. You are God as well--a god in the making. Don't get confused with the Creator Himself with these gods who once had to walk the path of Higher Consciousness just like everybody else.

My job is to help others shatter their current mental box or paradigm of thoughts and beliefs. We have so many layers of false beliefs and paradigms (The Mind of Man) that it takes quite a bit to get rid of. As I said, you must transcend yourself every day. Detach from all Earthly things.

I have to requote here as I concure. HOWEVER, what is point in incarnating to transcend and detach from all eathly things? Isnt that the point; to experience 3D. Then what to deny it as false? Of course its an illusion to begin with, yet we souls have to come here to experience the delusion between matter, our HIGHER spirit/soul everlasting and its relationship to HEAVY existance? We do not have any false beliefs when out of body, this is testing the best of souls to understand when incarnate the falsity of this reality/unreality. Soul lives where? the heart. Spirit lives where, the brain. I will never waver in the fact that we are God experiencing ITSELF in whatever method the individual takes on its path. Its all good in the sense that there are so many variables ALLOWED (looking for the tipping point) and when that happens, God no longer has to experience itself as a Human and THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

Originally posted by guitarplayer

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by ctophil

 

"When you look at the mirror, you know that you exist"
Have you ever seen the back of your head?

Self recognition. The thing on my shoulder is a parrot, turning to see if there is another 'me' attached to my spine wanting to share banana peices.

Why are you replying to someone who has not posted to you? if I wanted to post to you I would have, are you in the habit of talking for other people? Such a childish habit.

So is inflating your scriptx3 as If we are all farsighted thinking we a nearsighted fool (kind of a bombast of overexclaimation). I replied to this post because I have something in common with ctophil, you need some friends of the same ilke and when (as though they need it; which they dont) will appreciate the gesture of acknowlgement. (THE HEY THERE IM HERE AND PAYING ATTENTION).

reply to post by vethumanbeing


near sighted ness. Has he answered all your questions yet?

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

I have to requote here as I concure. HOWEVER, what is point in incarnating to transcend and detach from all eathly things? Isnt that the point; to experience 3D. Then what to deny it as false? Of course its an illusion to begin with, yet we souls have to come here to experience the delusion between matter, our HIGHER spirit/soul everlasting and its relationship to HEAVY existance? We do not have any false beliefs when out of body, this is testing the best of souls to understand when incarnate the falsity of this reality/unreality. Soul lives where? the heart. Spirit lives where, the brain. I will never waver in the fact that we are God experiencing ITSELF in whatever method the individual takes on its path. Its all good in the sense that there are so many variables ALLOWED (looking for the tipping point) and when that happens, God no longer has to experience itself as a Human and THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

edit on 7-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Allow me to answer your questions in a linear fashion, leading all the way to what we, as co-creators, will do after we go back to Heaven.

1. First of all, when the Creator designed the "World of Form," He wanted to know what it felt like to be in a more dense world. In a more dense world, there is the illusion of separation. Because you see, in the World of "Allness" as explained before, The Creator only could experience Oneness. There is no such thing as separation. Thus, He wanted to experience this separation. And the only way to do this is to create beings from His consciousness and then send them down into the "World of Form," which is where we are. And through us, He can experience true separation.

2. God also wanted us to become His co-creators, meaning that one day, each of us will be capable of creating our own Universes with intelligent beings as well. However, in order for us to become such a creator, we must go to school and graduate from the many, many different grades and levels. We are gods in the making. Let me expand just a tiny bit more here. Becoming a creator is one in many other jobs you will attend to in the higher realms. Speaking of these jobs can take years. So I'll leave it as that for now. But before you can take on these jobs, you must graduate from the School of Earth first. I will explain more in detail later.

3. Now, The School of Earth. As you know, this School exists in the Physical Plane, also on the 7th Sphere. It is the MOST dense part of all the 7 spheres. So anybody who embody here will forget most likely 90% to 100% of all your memory from Heaven and all your past lives. For one, this allows you to start over every time. Because if you don't, your memories will create spiritual pride and will corrupt your path back to Heaven. Another thing is that this dense environment causes intense separation from God, for all knowledge and wisdom comes from Him. Going back up to the 1st Sphere, it is very easy for those folks to go back to God. Because it is much less dense, so they remember nearly 90% of their knowledge as God incarnate. They may ascend in one lifetime or less.

Remember, as soon as everybody ascends back to Heaven in any Sphere, that Sphere ascends as well, creating a Golden Age on that Sphere. So we have a long ways to go before the 7th Sphere will ascend. Because when I say everybody, I mean everybody in the entire universe must ascend. BUT, there is a time limit to all this. If for some reason not everybody ascend in that Sphere, then those people will be left behind. They will end up in the 8th Sphere (has not been created yet), which is even HARDER to learn than the current Sphere we are in. Who creates the 8th Sphere? All the folks who ascended in the 7th Sphere. Do you understand?

Ascension from Earth is equivalent to your High School graduation. You are starting a new life, a life in Heaven. When you do get back to Heaven or Spiritual Realm (right above the Identity Plane), there is no longer a feeling of separation. You have merged back with one of the Co-creators who have ascended in the past, also known as your Higher Self or I AM Presence. So therefore, God's Consciousness has retrieved the lost fragment. So that Co-creator who sent you down to Earth in the first place will no longer experience the dense physical plane any longer. You are currently in the 6th Sphere of Creation. NOW, here comes the good parts. Right above the Spiritual Realm of the 6th Sphere lies the 5th Sphere. In that 5th Sphere, there is another Co-creator who sent his or her consciousness down a long time ago to experience the lower 6th Sphere. And that conscious fragment was the I AM Presence you just merged back into. Your job at this point is transcend yourself AGAIN until you ascend back into the 5th Sphere! You keep doing this until you get back to the 1st Sphere.

To be continued....

....Continued from the previous post.

4. Once you are at the 1st Sphere, your next mission is to ascend back to the Ultimate Creator of this "World of Form." You fully merge with Him at that point. Even then, you are not finished. At that point, you will have an extremely complex view of ALL the Universes currently in motion. Yes, there are many "Worlds of Form." You will learn how to create an entire Universe yourself. Although you have merged with The Creator, you are still an individual with your own personality. So does God really lose this "experience" as a human at this very GREAT level? Nope. Because you are still an individual (although you have become Fully ONE with God), what you do, God still experiences through YOU no matter how high you get. :-)

5. In this 5th point, I want to get back to when you first ascended from the School of Earth. Ascension to Heaven is called being in the 5th Dimension or Spiritual Realm. You just past the High School Examination. Congratulations! When you get there, the first thing to do is rest. Kinda soak in all the wonders and beauty of Heaven. And believe me, it is a sight to behold. Your human love will become true unconditional love that transcends all understanding on Earth. At that moment, you have truly transcended all of Earth's knowledge and wisdom. For the first time, there is no effort in realizing that you and God ARE ONE. You will have FULL access to the Mind of God. Suddenly, your mind is capable of thoughts beyond comprehension, but of pure love and peace. You have just became a Kindergarten Master, and you have much to learn.

One of the first lessons of a Kindergarten Master is to split your own consciousness into multiple pieces. Eventually, you will learn to send these pieces into the 7th Sphere (you are now in the 6th Sphere after ascension) to become, guess what, multiple human beings. Each Master is allowed to send 12 pieces of their mind down. But that is only the beginning. One of the Ascended Beings from Venus a long time ago when he first ascended, he had to train his mind to split into over a 100,000 pieces. And each piece incarnated into a different planet with each a different personality and experience. So yes, you have a long way to go, my friend. Being in Heaven is not really about yourself, it is about being a servant. You humbly serve all those in the 7th Sphere who have not ascended yet. Your job is to help everybody. Because without being a servant, you will not go up any higher. Besides splitting your consciousness, you also learn to send a part of yourself into a person in the lower sphere in order to help them out. This is known as the Holy Spirit in the Bible. I call it the Christ Self. When I have time, I will talk more about the many duties a Master must perform to serve.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

 

near sighted ness. Has he answered all your questions yet?

NO. That would be TEAR DENIED REAR MESS SIGHTED, and Im waiting for the mail from the tramp steamer (out of Tangier, THE NOBALISE Swedish trawler) to deliver the mail--from Marrakesh to/via Gibralter to eventully Lisbon, Algiers, and then London). I will be in Florida watching this debacle from a distant episode.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I don't think God desires for anyone to reject Him. It's the secondary consequence of free will to choose. He won't force people to love Him.

Really. What are the two main commandments?

And is that not forcing?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I think Aaron finished the last book of Moses.

A mythological figure finishing what another mythological character started.
How droll that would be if mot such pathetic thinking.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Jim Scott
God created man in His own image, after His likeness, in Gen 1:26. Man fell due to a lie told to Eve by Adam, which opened a door for evil. Children would then no longer be in the image and likeness of God, but in the image and likeness of Man (Gen 5:1).

Likeness as in perfect?

What lie did Adam tell Eve?

Regards
DL

Good question.

Adam told Eve that if she touched the fruit, she would die.

edit on 8/5/2013 by Jim Scott because: fix

A lie.

Get the quote.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Adam told Eve that if she touched the fruit, she would die.

The word here translated as "touch" can mean to gather, as in reaping, so it is directly connected to the eating, where first you have to draw the fruit from the tree.
So there was no lie being told in connection with the use of that word.
The lie was from the serpent, when he said "No".

Get the quote or you will also be seen as lying.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by ctophil
[
Now, the truth to Salvation is to raise your consciousness to a high level. You must seek the Kingdom of Heaven within you, NOT an outside savior like Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, or Krishna. No one can save you but yourself. Kill the ego by putting on the Mind of God and let the Mind of Man die as well. To begin, get out of the Mental Box of an outside savior, look within, not without. The Mind of God sees perfection not based on human values but with divine vision or with no ego.

edit on 8/5/2013 by ctophil because: (no reason given)

As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem with the notion of a God within.
After my apotheosis I cannot but believe in that concept.

You made a lot of statements about God and heaven and how things work here.

Are you admitting or claiming an apotheosis?

If not, how is it that you know what you say is truth above?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by BornOfSin
This is because 'perfection' refers to 'balance'

One who is in balance of light and dark.

This is the essence of the difference between meditation and 'praying'.

Praying is detachment, begging for someone else to help you cause you are flawed and too lazy to work it out for yourself.

Meditation is the path to the true Divinity that lies inside of us all that begins with enlightenment to the 'I AM' of our existence. Where one learns to balance themselves.

The answers are not in the Bible unless you decode the teachings properly. You need to decipher the hidden meanings, to understand it.

We are on the same page my friend.

Hidden in plain sight.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by digital01anarchy
The thing that gets to me is why some atheists laugh or call a willing sacrifice archaic when simple logic states you sacrifice time for money, You sacrifice enjoyment for knowledge, You sacrifice something everyday for something else but the idea of someone sacrificing their life out of love for humanity is well fairy tales even when after 2000 years his ideas are still being taught. Question is why has it this survived for sooo long if not by some divine intervention. It could have died long ago but amazingly has gotten stronger over the years why?

If you sacrifice yourself to yourself, how is that a sacrifice?

Your examples show you giving up something of value for something of less value. A lose which is what sacrifice is.

What did Jesus/God give up that had value when he was just giving it to himself?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by greavsie1971
This is how I understand it, and it works for me. If you dont agree, that is your choice.

You can pick at my beliefs all you want, why not just accept we all believe what works for us individually, and not try to constantly disprove our beliefs.


We were given free will. We were then exposed to temptation. In order to know the consequences of evil deeds we need to experience them. What is good without evil. We then use our free will to decide which path we want to take. Seems pretty perfect to me.

This works for me. I know it doesnt work for you. Which is cool. Follow and believe what you want. Dont let anyone criticise you for it. We are who we are. We should all respect each other for it.

The Bible is a very complex piece of work, asking us to explain the work of God is like asking a single cell organism to explain quantum physics. I like what it says and it works for me. There are parts I dont understand fully but that is down to my ignorance.

Peace to you all and please just respect others beliefs. Is that too much to ask?

Im bored now of trying to defend my beliefs. Each day on ATS I find myself having to explain why I believe the way I do just for the sole purpose of non believers to pick at them and criticise them. Then after trying to answer questions, being told Im forcing my opinion down others throats. Im just answering questions.
Sometimes I say things and with hindsight realise I have missed the point, then get put down and criticised for it. I am still on my path and have lots to learn. Im enjoying the path I am on and hope you all are too.
The Bible works really well for me and the path Im currently taking.....Just accept that. Im taking a break from this now.
I will never change the way I am just because others dont like it. No-one ever should. (unless you are harming others of course).

Peace.

edit on 6-8-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)

You should recognize the immoral nature of your bible.
Your religion is based on barbaric human sacrifice.
Why would you want to follow such an immoral theology?

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty and here you are preaching for him. Shame on you.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.
He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Created very good ... doesn't mean we stayed very good.
We were given 'free will' ... that can improve upon the state of very good or can destroy it.
Very good can be made better. And we can have a hand in it.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:
Can an omni-max God do less than perfect?

God, being perfect, made humans less than perfect but with the ability to correct themselves.
This 'glitch' is actually perfection on God's part.
It is better to make humans with this 'glitch' so they can work to improve,
rather than make them perfect and leave them no room for growth and learning.

So to have room for growth, you downgrade your creator from making perfect works to making us inferior. That certainly does not follow scriptures but if you feel comfy making a loser out of God then feel free.

Remember thought that the vast majority of those souls you say were created defectively will end in hell regardless of what they do.

That makes the God you follow quite the insane and immoral prick.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by BornOfSin
[SNIP]

Leonardo Da Vinci deciphered the same truth as I did. It is in all his paintings.

He was one of the smartest men to have ever lived, I am a certified genius in the top percentile.

Notice the common trait here? It is that we are much smarter than yourself, and therefore should be appreciated as such, as we are able to work things out that you can not. Obviously.

When I release Genesis soon, it will be taken VERY seriously .. Cause the translations are correct. And you will remember every post you made .. and exactly how much egg is on your face.
]

FMPOV, if people understood Eden, they would understand all spiritual matters better. Christianity is still in the dark ages and refuse to light a light.

What slant do you plan on using for Eden?
The Christian fall of the more intelligent Jewish elevation?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by Greatest I am

If we are part of God and are imperfect and in need of salvation then God cannot be perfect as we, being a part of him are not.

Why do we need salvation if created imperfect in the first place?
We cannot help being as created.


Let's cut to the chase now as this is getting stupid.

No, it's getting paradoxical. And that's ok.

Remember this?

"Most true things are stated in paradoxes." -Lao Tzu

If you're going to probe the mysteries of God, then you had better have a high tolerance for paradox and ambiguity. If not then pack up your bags and go back home.

That's the chase I cut to.

"Live at the empty heart of paradox. I'll dance with you there, cheek to cheek." -Rumi

You speak of what God does above with boundaries etc.

How do you know this to be true?

I know from a combination of scholarship and personal (mystical) experience.

edit on 6-8-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Scholarship that speak of God are all giving speculative nonsense as we cannot verify any of it.

Personal (mystical) experience can have value.

Let us hear your story to see if we can give it veracity or not.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Hecate666

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I don't think God desires for anyone to reject Him. It's the secondary consequence of free will to choose. He won't force people to love Him.

This is as far as I got and I have to ask:
God is not forcing us to love him, as apparently he gave us free will. But if we don't love him [reject] then we WILL end up in hell and are tortured for eternity.
So in effect we are not free at all as we have to choose between believing or eternal pain?

How is that in any way loving, caring or acceptable.
It was exactly this 'crazy mindset' of god that turned me one day from a sort of fletchling believer [I was 16] to a hardcore atheist and to rub it in even more, a theoretical Satanist [as described in Revelations].

In all earnest, if you can't find a decent answer as to why god is so contradictory, then the most simple answer is:

There is no god.

Nature is our mother, everything works on equilibrium and there is no good or bad because everything HAS to obey the natural laws of this universe. If you are a bastard and get away with it and have lots of offspring then nothing at all will happen to you when you die because you did what you were supposed to do, procreate. You only have yourself to answer to [and of course being a bastard may make your life a misery [or not], doesn't really matter in nature].

The rest is all made up by humans, based on humans and our [chemical] feelings and fear.
To be truly free you have to let go of the notion of a god. I remember when I did, it was as if a large boulder was taken off my chest.

You know what, still I am one of the most just people you could meet. I know right from wrong and will not do any harm to any creatures if I can help it [I even save flies..]. I love and respect nature, it works, it works so well without humans and of course it works so well because there is NO god.

Ads soon as humans get their sticky hands into something they muck it up, that includes the beautiful equilibrium of all living beings. For millions of years all is fine but then the stinky little human comes along and thinks it knows better than nature and hey presto [Fukushima, global warming, extinction of many species and all the other things we have completely ruined].

Sometimes I am ashamed to be human. If god [existed] was anything like us, he can go where the sun don't shine.

There is some truth in what you say but your view is too close. Back off and look again for the first time.

We, in the last 20 years, have taken a billion of us out of poverty and it looks like we will do the same in the next 20 years. Health, longevity and education are benchmarks of morality and we are collectively doing the best we have ever done.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Deetermined
You have to read scripture to know what's in it...

Revelation 12:7-9

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

edit on 6-8-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

His angels?

Were they not God's angels?

Also, can you tell us why God gave Satan dominion on earth and the power to deceive the whole earth ---- and why did God put Satan right beside Eve knowing that she could not resist him?

Was God insane or did he want Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge?

Regards
DL