Now I know why conspiracy theories are mocked

ATS is first and foremost a conspiracy site. I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone here. (Note that I said 'GOOD' conspiracy theory). What makes a 'GOOD' conspiracy theory is that the theory is actually plausible. It has to be able to work. It has to at least have some facts to back it up. A "GOOD" conspiracy theory has to be able to have dots (facts) to connect and even if some of the connections aren't found YET, those dots have to be fairly reasonable. A GOOD conspiracy theory can't work against what is unquestionably true.

Example -

Good conspiracy theory - there are possibly structures on the moon not from the Apollo space missions. The 'dots' ... photos of possible structures, discussions by the astronauts of possible structures, earth based telescopes picking up possible structures in their lenses. etc.

Bad conspiracy theory - the moon is made of green cheese. The 'dots' disproving this ... the astronauts walked on the moon and didn't sink into cheese. Moon rocks brought back are rocks and not moldy cheese. Basic scientific truth/fact disproves the possibility. etc.

I've always defended good conspiracy theories. To name a few of those (IMHO) plausible theories - The JFK assassination conspiracy; Marylyn Monroe murdered conspiracy; The NWO; The Bilderbergs; possible structures (man made or alien) on the moon; Alien UFOs visit Earth; Princess Diana may have been murdered; Governments around the world aware of UFOs visiting; Gulf of Tonkin; and so on.

After nine plus years here, I finally decided to enter a 9/11 discussion. I don't remember if I've ever actually entered the discussions on it before. I don't think so. Of course I don't buy all of what we have been told by the government about that event/time period, but ... MAN .. WOW ... some of the theories about what happened with 9/11 are so far out there and implausible and impossible that I can now understand why the non-conspiracy minded folks mock 911 'truthers' (or whatever they call themselves).

According to some of the 'truthers' ...

-There were no planes that crashed that day. It was all project bluebeam.
- The planes that crashed had no people on them. The lists of the dead are made up.
- The planes that crashed were remote controlled and no one was on board.
- The pilots of those planes didn't exist. They didnt' really die.
- The real planes landed safely in Canada. The people inside .. hundreds of them .. relocated.
- Plastic surgery was given to the people who were in the planes and who relocated.
- The pentagon was hit in the exact spot of important papers showing massive gov't theft so it was all a plot to destroy the paperwork.
- 9/11 was orchestrated to destroy papers on the 23rd floor of one of the twin towers related to ENRON. The Pentagon and shanksville and the other tower being hit were covering up the main hit on ENRON papers that supposedly were on the 23rd floor of one of the towers.

Providing facts such as structural engineering information about how the pentagon was under renovation and that it literally just had TONS of reinforced concrete and steel added .. and how it was nearly EMPTY when it was hit ... mean nothing to these 911 'truthers'. Neither do the lists of the dead. Neither do the names and pictures of the pilots who died. Never mind the hundreds of pieces of airplane debris found at the pentagon and never mind the basic materials engineering facts that prove there would be no major fuselage pieces that could have possibly survived hitting the reinforced building which collapsed on it. Never mind that ENRON was based in Texas and that the scandal didn't happen until months after 9/11. Never mind the facts ... just hug the wild conspiracy theories.

Like I said, I don't buy everything about what we were told. But at the same time, going hog wild with absolute insanity type 'theories' (they don't raise to the level of theory) doesn't help find truth. Finding the truth is what conspiracy theory discussion is supposed to be about. It isn't supposed to be about who can come up with the most outrageous fictional story surrounding an event or situation. It's supposed to be about exposing truth or discovering truth. Claiming that no one died in the airplanes that crashed is an EMBARRASSMENT to those who are open minded to conspiracy discussions. Claiming that no one died in the planes gives credence to those who are negative toward conspiracy theory discussion and just hurts the chances of truth being uncovered where it needs to be.

Want to talk about 911 conspiracies? Want to do some good and help uncover truth? Great! But be serious and be reasonable. And knock off the attitudes that anyone who disagrees with your outrageous claims is somehow drunk on kool-aide or are ignorant. Otherwise, you do more harm than good.

These extremists and their wild impossible theories are the reason why conspiracy theorists are mocked.
I can't blame the mockers for doing so. They have a point.

reply to post by FlyersFan


A conspiracy thread should come with marker delimiters as like movies...R, M, PG, G

For conspiracy thread marked

Ridiculous Lunacy - RL
Moderately believable - MB
Possible but not good - PNG
Good Conspiracy Theory - GCT

You've got a good idea. That would be really helpful.

I completely understand your points, and to be honest it doesn't help our cause at the best of times.

But, you also have to understand that because of so much dis-information out there...

So what does that tell me? That Government are consciously recruiting shills to spread dis-info and propaganda on all the major (and minor) social media web sites.

The Internet is a treasure-trove of information, reputable or otherwise...What better way is there to hide the truth, than to overload and confuse us further with dis-information and wild theories?

Not every mind is capable of sifting through the waste in order to find the single grains of truth out there.

Not every single Truth-Seeker will stay along the right path and not get led astray at some point.

So in my opinion, Government has successfully laid the foundations for "conspiracy theorists" and their theories to be mocked.

P.S - Even the "crazies" on here were swayed at one point by dis-information that they naively chose to accept as gospel...I empathise with them and would try to change their overall opinions on a theory, rather than point and laugh at their mis-judgement.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

According to some of the 'truthers' ...

- The pentagon was hit in the exact spot of important papers showing massive gov't theft so it was all a plot to destroy the paperwork.

The impact area included both the Navy operations center and the office complex of the National Guard and Army Reserve. It was also the end of the fiscal year and important budget information was in the damaged area.

www.arlingtonva.us...

It's not that "far out there and implausible and impossible"
But I don't think it was the only reason for plotting the 9/11 attacks...

Originally posted by SmoKeyHaZe
Government has successfully laid the foundations for "conspiracy theorists" and their theories to be mocked.

Sure. I hear ya'. But I'm thinking that those yoddles who push the whackadoo 'no one died in the planes' theories aren't all government agents. They are an embarrassment to finding truth ... IMHO

And another side RANT ..... the 9/11 forum .... my first dive in .... WOW .... snarky and rude and childish and downright ignorant posts. If those kinds of posts were in any of the other forums, those people would be hit with warning after warning and would be banned quickly.

The 911 forum needs serious growing up and/or cleaning up.

Many of the posters in there don't seem capable of posting information and having an adult conversation without jabbing or poking or insulting.

I can't blame the mockers for doing so.

There is no winning over the Mocker's,they blame us..it's a hierarchy or something

reply to post by AthlonSavage


So, a bull# meter.... Nice...

reply to post by FlyersFan

The 911 forum needs serious growing up and/or cleaning up.

We don't dictate content though...free exchange of ideas. All we do is enforce the Terms & Conditions. If those are violated, alert it, but shy of that, we can't just outlaw craziness......

nvm

Originally posted by Gazrok
So, a bull# meter.... Nice...

a long while back I used to post at a different site. They had some fun smilies on the board that folks could use. One was a little man holding up a BS flag. Another was a BS meter pegged at full red. That board also allowed cussing and stuff. It wouldn't work here ... but man it was fun.

reply to post by Sharingan

It was an extreme example. It served the purpose I was showing.
Some 'theories' are ignorant. Some are plausible and should be examed closer.

reply to post by Gazrok

Honestly ... what I've seen in my first jump into the 9/11 forum ... what those folks are posting would get them major warning hits in other forums. And the level of their intensity borders on the pathological (IMHO).

reply to post by FlyersFan


I thought maybe you were being factitious but ive learned that on this board, you never know.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I do love me a good conspiracy theory, but the problem to me is that many hear a 15-30 snip on the TV or see something on the internet and believe it wholesale. Many people don’t think seem to be able to think for themselves anymore.

My buddy called me yesterday all in a tiff saying that his TV can spy on him. Hell, there are even threads on that topic here on ATS posted today.

I don’t think that I’m a Precog or anything, but I could swear I saw this here on ATS and elsewhere earlier this year. I remember talking to him about it

I think that the 9/11 forum should be shut down as I have not seen any new theories postulated in years. It’s just rinse and repeat. The posters change, but it’s still the same point-counter point debate.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
the problem to me is that many hear a 15-30 snip on the TV or see something on the internet and believe it wholesale.

... and YOU TUBE! People watch a 5 minute blurb on You Tube pumped out by an unemployed kid living in his parents basement and they think they are an expert.

I think that the 9/11 forum should be shut down .

I'll tell ya' what ... after spending my first day in it ... I believe it's worse than the off topic religion forum. And that's a pretty hard forum to beat for 'intense whackiness'

This is how I see ATS


We should not throw anyone of them in the bin
One could lead to another, a group of them could lead to a bigger picture
We could use some of one and combine it with another

And a trimmed one coloured idea is not as fun and inspirational as a 1000 good and bad
It motivates one to better themselves, and come up with new ways of thinking and looking at things from another angle.

Logic become chaos, chaos become logic

reply to post by FlyersFan


A couple of points.

I avoid the 9/11 forum because I am a follower of Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is most often the correct one. 19 assclowns got on some planes to be evil.

My other point is that I think it a valid conspiracy when I think Katherine Zeta Jones is stalking me.

I think the problem with 9/11 truthers (the most ironic name ever) is that they all feed each others rubbish.

So its fine to say for example "I think 9/11 was a false flag" but usually when you ask why, they link to a 9/11 truth website or documentary.

You know i once came across a forum that argued that 9/11 was a huge elaborate test for a high energy laser beam from space and there were lots of people believing it because some guy had made a hour long video of it on YouTube which they cited as evidence.

I see thread after thread on this website that is just the exact same stuff being spouted about 9/11 and most of it is utter rubbish.

And the problem is that they all read and buy into each others rubbish.

If you only ever read books telling you the world was flat, inevitably, you would believe the world was flat.

9/11 is the exact same, if you only read "9/11 was a Jewish false flag", your obviously going to believe the Jews were behind 9/11.

Most truther's have not actually read the 9/11 commission report.

but they dont believe a word of it...... becasue someone told them not to.

but I am still the ignorant one