Niether Body nor Spirit

reply to post by HarryTZ


You can't do it can you. You simply submit to someone's rhetoric. Allow me to be the first to congratulate you.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

If you can refute everything in front of you, surely you have thought about it.

A thought about what?

reply to post by HarryTZ


About whatever nothing you're selling.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

You can't do it can you. You simply submit to someone's rhetoric. Allow me to be the first to congratulate you.

edit on 23-6-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

Exactly how is this relevant? I'm not even sure what you're asking me to do, anyway.

reply to post by HarryTZ

Exactly how is this relevant? I'm not even sure what you're asking me to do, anyway.

Explain to me how you've arrived at your conclusion. Maybe I can arrive there too.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I guess we all need a hand to hold when it comes to thinking about nothing.

It is impossible to think about nothing.

But I'd hate to become your new Osho.

No chance!

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Another thread written by someone who just has good (not in my opinion) arguing skills - clever with words and symbols. Shame he has not found what he really wants.
edit

Non existence is avoided by individuals. They are missing their other half and feel lost - all they have to do is remember nothingness. Avoiding the void, they grab onto any thing that they feel will make that empty feeling go away but they are then needy and greedy and very rarely satisfied and always on the look out to fill up on some thing. They want to big themselves up so they don't feel so bad.

You are not some thing else. You are no thing. You are not 'a' thing.

You state that 'you are so much more than your thoughts' - what are you then? I asked earlier in the thread 'would you say that you are the life?' but you did not answer. Have you considered what you are, what this is?

Really, in my opinion after reading his posts for years, he is nothing more than a troll - he likes to provoke emotion and offend.

Words do indeed do a lot - they divide that which is whole and complete by deluding one into believing in all sorts of things that are not true.

How profound!

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

Exactly how is this relevant? I'm not even sure what you're asking me to do, anyway.

Explain to me how you've arrived at your conclusion. Maybe I can arrive there too.

I'll be back in a couple of hours.

reply to post by HarryTZ

What interests me is that he claims to have studied Buddhism for (years?), yet somehow he seems to have returned to agnosticism.

For the record, I have no problem with any particular religion. I also have no problem with Osho, despite his need for excess and views on homosexuality. I wouldn't be where I am without hearing and contemplating these perspectives.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

What interests me is that he claims to have studied Buddhism for (years?), yet somehow he seems to have returned to agnosticism.

Do you regard this as a backward step?

Maybe agnosticism or atheism is where Lesmis needs to be at this time, a vital step in his personal unfolding?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

For the record, I have no problem with any particular religion. I also have no problem with Osho, despite his need for excess and views on homosexuality.

Osho did seem to be a bit lacking in knowledge on a few topics, homosexuality being one. What actually matters, however, I'd say he knew what he was talking about.

I wouldn't be where I am without hearing and contemplating these perspectives.

Where, exactly, are you? To me it seems like your beliefs merely consist of a jumble of abstract ideas and general concepts... I mean, if you're neither body nor spirit...

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Do you regard this as a backward step?

Considering that Buddhism succeeds where beliefs and dogma fail, and agnosticism just has no clue, I consider it a bit of backward step. Not too far backward, but a ways.

Maybe agnosticism or atheism is where Lesmis needs to be at this time, a vital step in his personal unfolding?

Until he realizes that there are no needs, there is no time, and there is no person to unfold... maybe it is

reply to post by HarryTZ

Where, exactly, are you? To me it seems like your beliefs merely consist of a jumble of abstract ideas and general concepts... I mean, if you're neither body nor spirit...

I am still in the process of figuring that out, and I would argue that we all are. As of now, I am still climbing out of the pit of nihilism, and will likely do so until I die. I've repudiated my religions, my atheism, my materialism, my idealism and my agnosticism. Every thread I write is against my own perspectives and my past outlooks—myself. It's about moving forward, experimentation and becoming the artist of my own life and memories.

This may be a backward step for some.

Originally posted by HarryTZ


Until he realizes that there are no needs, there is no time, and there is no person to unfold... maybe it is

And this realization may be yet another step in unfoldment....

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I am still in the process of figuring that out, and I would argue that we all are. As of now, I am still climbing out of the pit of nihilism, and will likely do so until I die. I've repudiated my religions, my atheism, my materialism, my idealism and my agnosticism. Every thread I write is against my own perspectives and my past outlooks—myself. It's about moving forward, experimentation and becoming the artist of my own life and memories.

This may be a backward step for some.

edit on 23-6-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

It seems beliefs aren't for you then. That's good.
By pit of nihilism I assume you mean an existential depression?

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by HarryTZ


Until he realizes that there are no needs, there is no time, and there is no person to unfold... maybe it is

And this realization may be yet another step in unfoldment....

Isn't the end of this path, the realization of enlightenment... isn't that when we realize that there is no one to unfold and no path to travel?

reply to post by HarryTZ

It seems beliefs aren't for you then. That's good.
By pit of nihilism I assume you mean an existential depression?

That might be a good term for it.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


I've been there. I know what that's like. The despair so intense yet somehow so empty. The waves of unbearable dread pouring through your body. The wondering how everyone around you seems so happy and at ease while all you can think about is your mortality.

I crawled out of that pit when I began to discover my spirituality. This is the reason that I try and spread the message of primordial happiness. It really isn't just wishful thinking, but it sure can seem that way sometimes. I recommend you get the trilogy of books called Conversations with God, by Neale Donald Walsch. They contain a very unbiased perspective on day-to-day life, society, and spirituality and existence as a whole. It's also the book that woke me up from my depression, and, many years ago, saved my step-mother's life.

But for now, and this is absolutely necessary, you need to stop thinking those nihilist thoughts that drag you down. They will nag at you, try and lure you back in, but you must remain steadfast. This is why meditation is immensely important. You need to make time each day to sit down and meditate. Commit yourself to it.

To start, just sit or lie comfortably and clear your mind. Allow any feelings of discomfort to arise and descend, without acting upon them. Just observe these feelings, don't identify. When you catch yourself thinking, no matter how important your mind tries to tell you the thought is, just bring your awareness back into the present experience. Don't judge yourself or the thoughts as good or bad, 'supposed to' or 'not supposed to'. Just allow yourself to be. You will notice a peace come over you. You might be tempted to question it, but don't, just allow this feeling to exist and be grateful it is there.

In truth, this sort of meditation can be done all day, every day. Whatever you are doing, do it with a clear mind. Be present in the experience, not lost in your mind. Osho has a wonderful way of describing this sort of conscious living:

"Consciousness means living with a witness; unconsciousness means living without a witness. When you are walking on the road, you can walk consciously — that’s what Buddha says one should do — you are alert, deep down you are aware that you are walking; you are conscious of each movement. You are conscious of the birds singing in the trees, the early morning sun coming through the trees, the rays touching you, the warmth, the fresh air, the fragrance of newly opening flowers. A dog starts barking, a train passes by, you are breathing… you are watching everything. You are not excluding anything out of your alertness; you are taking everything in. The breath goes in, the breath goes out… you are watching everything that is happening."

reply to post by HarryTZ


I appreciate it Harry. But there is no dispair in me. The depression was long ago. I am beyond nihilism. Nihilism is meaningless.

Now I find ways to affirm life, not by meditating, or sitting, or by searching for some spirituality, but by living and creating. I meditate every waking minute. I rest in my sleep.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Well, I tried

If it's not despair, what is or was it?