Niether Body nor Spirit

reply to post by covertpanther

I'm sorry that you want to leave the thread when it seems to be getting interesting.

...the Bible is spiritual in nature...Those who govern this planet are ADEPT in spiritual nature, thus they control your minds and lwoer your spirit...
...
If you people are content with your addiction with the EXTERNAL reality

Since you seem to be concerned with the rulers of the World being adepts, and since people have been wondering just what religion the elites hold, I thought I'd take a stab at explaining it.

First to quote Karl Marx, that famous quote about opiates:

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

...For Marx, the problem lies in the obvious fact that an opiate drug fails to fix a physical injury — it merely helps you forget pain and suffering. This may be fine up to a point, but only as long as you are also trying to solve the underlying problems causing the pain. Similarly, religion does not fix the underlying causes of people’s pain and suffering — instead, it helps them forget why they are suffering and gets them to look forward to an imaginary future when the pain will cease.

Even worse, this “drug” is administered by the same oppressors who are responsible for the pain and suffering in the first place. Religion is an expression of more fundamental unhappiness and symptom of more fundamental and oppressive economic realities. Hopefully, humans will create a society in which the economic conditions causing so much pain and suffering would be eradicated and, therefore, the need for soothing drugs like religion will cease.
Karl Marx on Religion:Is Religion the Opiate of the Masses?, By Austin Cline

Since you have mentioned the Bible, I will argue that the "Religion of the Elites" is firmly grounded in an Old Testament worldview, quite materialistic. The active ingredient is a sense of "divine right" to property based wealth. The only "immortality" is that which is provided through legacy of bloodlines. So wealth and privilege and right to rule others are passed from generation to generation legally or otherwise. The only immortal soul is the immortal continuing of family and tribe, nothing personal at all.

The fostering of the notion within the masses of doing with less material goods to help the soul progress to pure spirit, is a tool used quite effectively by our rulers. To think that the inverse of this is the truth, is to look at things completely upside down.

The above is, I realize, a simplified version. In the last couple of generations "new wealth" has emerged to blur the distinctions. Greed detached from sustainability has also messed up the system. This just makes the reality much more complex. I would still argue that my simplistic view at least gives a general idea of how the system was designed to work by the rulers of former generations.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Non existence is avoided by individuals. They are missing their other half and feel lost - all they have to do is remember nothingness. Avoiding the void, they grab onto any thing that they feel will make that empty feeling go away but they are then needy and greedy and very rarely satisfied and always on the look out to fill up on some thing. They want to big themselves up so they don't feel so bad.

That emptiness that everyone is avoiding is what they are and until they face that emptiness they will be running scared - it is impossible to hide forever.

How can one avoid something that doesn't exist? Wouldn't half of something imply something else? How does one remember nothingness when there is nothing there to remember? The void only exists in thought, in conceptions, as does "nothingness", emptiness and nothings. You are much more than your thoughts.

There is only what is here - the scene that is appearing is appearing to exist.
You are not your thoughts because there is no you - there are thoughts arising and subsiding in and as emptiness.
This is nothing forming.

You state that 'you are so much more than your thoughts' - what are you then? I asked earlier in the thread 'would you say that you are the life?' but you did not answer. Have you considered what you are, what this is?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
...Huh?!
Itisnowagain, you have an irritating habit of explaining just enough to confuse me and never enough to clarify that confusion, even when I ask you to. Perhaps this could be one of those rare and far between moments when you actually make sense out of your nonsense? I would greatly appreciate it because this is looking to be a very intriguing discussion. It would be interesting to get a view of your world - it sounds like a Pink Floyd cartoon.

Is it any clearer?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

You state that 'you are so much more than your thoughts' - what are you then? I asked earlier in the thread 'would you say that you are the life?' but you did not answer. Have you considered what you are, what this is?

LesMis only seems equipped to poetically dance around this question than to actually give us a straight-forward answer. He thinks he knows what he's not (or not not), but when it comes to what he actually is... well, I guess it really hasn't come to that yet.

reply to post by HarryTZ

LesMis only seems equipped to poetically dance around this question than to actually give us a straight-forward answer. He thinks he knows what he's not (or not not), but when it comes to what he actually is... well, I guess it really hasn't come to that yet.

And I suppose you have a better answer? What was it again..."nothing"? It seems it is your answer to everything. If you answer is nothing, then why even answer? You seem only equipped to contradict yourself.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

There is only what is here - the scene that is appearing is appearing to exist.
You are not your thoughts because there is no you - there are thoughts arising and subsiding in and as emptiness.
This is nothing forming.

If nothing is forming. Why do you speak?

When you say there is no me, then how do these words appear on the screen? Why do you read the words of no one? Why do you reply to them?

You state that 'you are so much more than your thoughts' - what are you then? I asked earlier in the thread 'would you say that you are the life?' but you did not answer. Have you considered what you are, what this is?

I am LesMisanthrope. I am however I define myself; not how you define me or anyone else.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You state that 'you are so much more than your thoughts' - what are you then? I asked earlier in the thread 'would you say that you are the life?' but you did not answer. Have you considered what you are, what this is?

I am LesMisanthrope. I am however I define myself; not how you define me or anyone else.

So you are much more than your thoughts? - you are LesMisanthrope?
How profound!

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

There is only what is here - the scene that is appearing is appearing to exist.
You are not your thoughts because there is no you - there are thoughts arising and subsiding in and as emptiness.
This is nothing forming.

If nothing is forming. Why do you speak?

Speaking happens.
Sounds are forming out of nothing and subsiding back into nothing.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

So you are much more than your thoughts? - you are LesMisanthrope?
How profound!

Thank you, itsnowagain.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

So you are much more than your thoughts? - you are LesMisanthrope?
How profound!

Thank you, itsnowagain.

Do you recognize irony?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


A better answer? You never gave me an answer to compete with in the first place. I'm still waiting for that.

And yes, this is all nothing. That is a scientific fact. Quite an obvious one at that. It has been known to mystics, Hindus and Buddhists alike for many thousands of years. Looks like science is finally catching up:

Matter is built on flaky foundations. Physicists have now confirmed that the apparently substantial stuff is actually no more than fluctuations in the quantum vacuum.

- NewScientist

So while you may claim to be 'LesMisanthrope, [insert definition here]', I see you for what you really are... 'LesMisanthrope, big nothing'. It's what we all are, quite literally. It kind of breaks the illusion of 'becoming', doesn't it?

reply to post by HarryTZ


He is looking the other way with his fingers in his ears.
Jesus tried to teach the blind to see and the deaf to hear.
Who cares if they cannot see or hear?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


What interests me is that he claims to have studied Buddhism for (years?), yet somehow he seems to have returned to agnosticism.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

What interests me is that he claims to have studied Buddhism for (years?), yet somehow he seems to have returned to agnosticism.

That is the claim. I wonder why he studied it (if he did)? Was he looking for something or was it just an intellectual exercise?
He also says he is "learned in Osho's teachings from years back" - but will not view him now when posters offer additions to their posts to clarify. He isn't really interested.

Really, in my opinion after reading his posts for years, he is nothing more than a troll - he likes to provoke emotion and offend.

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by trying to start arguments and upset people.

It makes him feel better for a little while - he needs his fix.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

The Lost Art of The Troll - Part I

THE TROLL

Coming soon: The Art of Trolling Part II. How to Properly Toll Someone.

He cannot deny it! I am just waiting for Part II so I can see how to do it properly - he has not actually mastered it himself as yet so that is why I have to wait.
LesMisanthrope will be pleased by this response because he is looking for a reaction - he will say I have bitten.

reply to post by HarryTZ

And yes, this is all nothing. That is a scientific fact.

Show me.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

And yes, this is all nothing. That is a scientific fact.

Show me.

It is in my last post, friend.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

He cannot deny it! I am just waiting for Part II so I can see how to do it properly - he has not actually mastered it himself as yet so that is why I have to wait.
LesMisanthrope will be pleased by this response because he is looking for a reaction - he will say I have bitten.

Ah you must have met me before! It seems you know me than you do your own thoughts about me. Irony. I do understand it quite well.

My heart swells to know that you have me figured out. The funny thing is, my words are your thoughts. I guess we all need a hand to hold when it comes to thinking about nothing. But I'd hate to become your new Osho.

reply to post by HarryTZ


A quote from a magazine is not science. If you can refute everything in front of you, surely you have thought about it.

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Matter is built on flaky foundations. Physicists have now confirmed that the apparently substantial stuff is actually no more than fluctuations in the quantum vacuum.

- NewScientist

< br /> EDIT: This isn't enough? Okay, Mis, keep denying what's right in front of your face.