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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by covertpanther
You missed pthena's point.
Its hard to admit to yourself that you are not adept or expereinced in the spiritual nature, and therefore have no clue in which you talk about. I understand why it is so hard for individuals - they fear being mocked, ridiculed and living "a fantasy" as they are hastly to label it.
What he said is this sort of "spirituality" is the new orthodox, and being grounded in your ordinary material existence is what will get you ridiculed, with your current attitude being a good example.
I think the introduction of the idea of "salvation" was a turning point. Some promise of eternal life for the "saved". This implied some sort of guarantee. Spirituality became a commodity in and of itself, divorced from practical life. Once it became a commodity, those who had means wanted to buy it. Once money became involved, professionals rose up to satisfy the demand.
You are not some thing else. You are no thing. You are not 'a' thing.
Remove all things from you (like when you are in deep sleep) and what are you?
The appearance that is appearing presently (right now) is existence - it appears to exist but is passing, it cannot be grasped - where is 2 minutes ago? It has passed, it no longer is appearing like it did 2 minutes ago. The movie of life (Maya/Leela) is playing, the movie is constantly moving and changing - it is passing. However, what you are never passes and is never seen - what you are never appears or disappears - it is constant.
What this is, both is and isn't at the same time. Existence is what is appearing and non existence is what isn't appearing.
Non existence is avoided by individuals. They are missing their other half and feel lost - all they have to do is remember nothingness. Avoiding the void, they grab onto any thing that they feel will make that empty feeling go away but they are then needy and greedy and very rarely satisfied and always on the look out to fill up on some thing. They want to big themselves up so they don't feel so bad.
That emptiness that everyone is avoiding is what they are and until they face that emptiness they will be running scared - it is impossible to hide forever.
When that emptiness is realized completely, it is instantly filled with all there is. The nothingness and the image that is appearing currently completes the picture - it is fulfilment.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
It is us who passes. We affirm this when someone dies. For them, the "movie" stops. Whatever they are disappears. But we see that even beyond them, existence continues as it always had, because it is the only thing that is constant.
However, what you are never passes and is never seen - what you are never appears or disappears - it is constant.
What this is, both is and isn't at the same time. Existence is what is appearing and non existence is what isn't appearing.
You cannot be sure of this because you have not experienced the passing of the body yet.
In the movie of life you see appearances disappear, you experience the death or disappearance of some character but you have not yet experienced the passing of your body.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain
You cannot be sure of this because you have not experienced the passing of the body yet.
In the movie of life you see appearances disappear, you experience the death or disappearance of some character but you have not yet experienced the passing of your body.
Fair enough. Are we not allowed to infer from this apparent world? Is it deceiving us? Or is it us who deceives us?
What is appearing is appearing but a make believe 'world' is imagined.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain
What is appearing is appearing but a make believe 'world' is imagined.
That begs the question. What is a make believe world?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain
Try explaining yourself more thoroughly. From the looks of it, you think we're in a perpetual state of nonexistent existence. Maybe you could elaborate.
All that could be said to be real is this moment
The mind speaks about beginnings and endings but really there is no beginning or ending to the present for what you are. You see existence changing but what you are stays the same.
In deep sleep nothing is appearing to exist but you are still.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain
However, what you are never passes and is never seen - what you are never appears or disappears - it is constant.
What this is, both is and isn't at the same time. Existence is what is appearing and non existence is what isn't appearing.
...Huh?!
What I am never appears. Existence is what is appearing. I am nonexistence.
What I am never disappears. Nonexistence is what isn't appearing. I am existence.
What I am, both exists and doesn't exist at the same time.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain
Whatever is in mind.
Do thoughts not appear in your apparent world?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain
All that could be said to be real is this moment
How do you know this moment isn't a dream?
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You are full of contradictions. That's why I asked you to elaborate, to give you a chance to make up your mind and perhaps flesh it out a little.edit on 21-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
The mind speaks about beginnings and endings but really there is no beginning or ending to the present for what you are. You see existence changing but what you are stays the same.
In deep sleep nothing is appearing to exist but you are still.
In response to which, I say this:
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain
However, what you are never passes and is never seen - what you are never appears or disappears - it is constant.
What this is, both is and isn't at the same time. Existence is what is appearing and non existence is what isn't appearing.
...Huh?!
What I am never appears. Existence is what is appearing. I am nonexistence.
What I am never disappears. Nonexistence is what isn't appearing. I am existence.
What I am, both exists and doesn't exist at the same time.
Thoughts and words appear presently. The stories they tell are stories made of words but they don't actually make or do anything.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain
Thoughts and words appear presently. The stories they tell are stories made of words but they don't actually make or do anything.
Thoughts and words can do a lot, actually. Do I need to post every speech, article, or quote that has inspired and changed the nation or world? Words are powerful things.