The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


Ironically, and I wished the defense would have pushed it more, the dispatcher may have been the cause of Zimmerman getting out of his truck. The 911 dispatcher repeatedly asked "what is he doing now" so Zimmerman may have gotten out of his car and began following/searching because he wanted to relay it to the dispatch who seemed to want to be updated.

So if one side can turn "we don't need you to do that" into "i command you to stop following!" then I don't see how "what is he doing now" couldn't be taken as "keep tabs on him and keep me updated (where he goes, what he's doing)."

Originally posted by firemonkey

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by Libertygal

 

Exactly.

I cringe every time I hear the phrase "if he had stayed in his truck"...

Plus I wanted to bring this point up:

There is a notion that Zimmerman 'disobeyed' the 911 dispatcher. Actually he didn't, according to his account,the ear witness, and evidence. He was already out of the truck at that time because he made the call on foot. He had gotten out to look for the location to tell the police where they could find Trayvon, but Trayvon had lost him.

Trayvon had double -backed toward Zimmerman's truck instead of going home.

It was at this point that Zimmerman tells the 911 dispatch "OK." And he proceeded to go back into the truck.

This is when Trayvon confronted him.

See, he never said, "No" to them. He remained calm on the phone and he complied.

So Trayvon attacked Zimmerman at his truck...and yet the shooting happened in a courtyard between buildings...not next to Zimmerman's truck.

Interesting version of events you have cooked up.

That is not what she said and not what happened. He was ON HIS WAY BACK to his truck when Martin attacked him.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

That is not what she said and not what happened. He was ON HIS WAY BACK to his truck when Martin attacked him.

I will quote what the person I responded to said.

And he proceeded to go back into the truck.

This is when Trayvon confronted him.

Back "into" the truck...and then Trayvon confronted him.....exact words.

Zimmerman has changed his story on this part a few times...Trayvon is dead so we can't ask him....the only other witness on the phone with Trayvon said that Trayvon claimed the guy (Zimmerman) was approaching him.

One thing for sure, Zimmerman was out of his truck looking for Trayvon...period.

thought i would post the dispatchers testimony.
at about the 4:43 mark is where he says it.

Originally posted by bbracken677

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by AlexG141989

 

I can't say honestly who the screams were for certain, but I'm not favouring the guy with the gun who waits until he is on the brink of consciousness before drawing it. Why would a guy with a gun scream for help from anyone else? Did he want someone to come and hold Trayvon still while he shot him?

This is outright trolling.

Sad, but been allowed to come in a scroll through 2 or 3 pages at a time, then leave. Never changes his attacks, just attacks wvery new person. People keep feeding him.

Originally posted by firemonkey
One thing for sure, Zimmerman was out of his truck looking for Trayvon...period.

Which is not a crime nor a preclude to a crime. I can follow you around all day and night.

Also; you cannot say "for sure"; otherwise it is speculation. You don't know those facts, no one knows.

reply to post by firemonkey


Ah.. well i don't know if it was a type or they subscribe to the double encounter theory. In reality, and I think evidence supports, Trayvon jumped Zimmerman as he was on his way back to his truck.

As for the missing two minutes, that's not much time, Zimmerman could have killed that looking at his phone or shining a flash light around before turning to return to his truck.

The last part of your post is absolutely incorrect though. Rachel Jeantel, the girl on the phone with Trayvon, did NOT say that Zimmerman approached Trayvon. She said that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman and asked why he was following him.

She was the first one to destroy the prosecutions narrative because she admitted that Trayvon was the one that confronted Zimmerman. That is why we know Trayvon made first contact, no one argues that.

As for saying one this is for sure Zimmerman was searching for Martin. Well you don't know that's for sure, he may have been looking for that address like he said, but even if he was looking for Martin, SO WHAT? Following someone is not a crime, and he wasn't hot on his trail. He had lost Martin so at most he was just looking around trying to catch sight of him. He most likely figured Martin had left the neighborhood (i doubt he thought he was chasing someone that lived there) so when he was heading back to his truck he had given up looking. Martin laid in wait and jumped him. The only crime committed was committed by Martin.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Of course he was. He was just blithely walking back to his truck past an area where he didn't know where the suspicious burglar/hoody wearer he'd just been following actually was. He said it himself, so it must be true. How could he be expected to be alert and ready for anything under such circumstances?

If Trayvon Martin's sole intention had been to confront George and then beat him up, AND he was capable of doing it, we wouldn't be having this discussion now and George would be sat at home being fed by his devoted wife SheLIE, having never reached the gun he had to be reminded he was carrying..

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

It can't be proven. When you consider the evidence though it is pretty clear though that it was out of fear.

I would not be quick to say that since Zimmerman was the only person who knew the whole time he had the upper hand. Having a gun that no one knows about gives a person a lot of courage they would not normally have. I'm sure that if Martin had any idea he was armed the whole situation would have been different, but we can pretty much conclude up until the trigger was pulled only Zimmerman knew he had the ace in the hole.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Sure, you can follow me around all day and night, but if I head into a deserted unlit area and you follow me, I am only going to suspect the worst and if you get near enough to be threatening, you're going to pay for it.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

That doesn't matter. If someone knocked me down and started pounding my head into pavement, I would definitely be angry, as well as afraid for my life, but that would not negate my right to self defense.

I agree by the letter of the law Zimmerman was in the right, but once again he entered in the conflict knowing only he had a gun. So he gets in to a fight knowing that at anytime he can pull his gun and end it. We he did end it, but I would not be quick to say he did it out of fear for his life as much as being pissed off he was getting his butt kicked.

reply to post by Xtrozero


His "Get out of jail free" card for that is, he was so taken by surprise, he didn't even think of reaching for his gun for over 40 seconds, and only then because Trayvon said he wanted to use it, as his arms were getting tired, or something.,

You all know the funny statement... "You must be dumb to bring a knife to a gun fight" We'll Martin brought only fists to a gun fight and only Zimmerman knew it was a gun fight all along.


I'm just not convinced Zimmerman was fearing for his life...

Originally posted by Xtrozero
...but once again he entered in the conflict knowing only he had a gun...

Pure speculation really. There is no way of knowing one is going to get into a fight. We can assume, we can even logically say after the fact, but there is no way of knowing that an altercation would occur or even escalate to the point where it became physical.

Zimmerman knew what he knew, but did not know that Martin wasn't also armed; as it turns out, Zimmerman was the only person armed. This doesn't mean that at some point, Zimmerman thought or didn't think that the person he was observing was or wasn't armed.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

His "Get out of jail free" card for that is, he was so taken by surprise, he didn't even think of reaching for his gun for over 40 seconds, and only then because Trayvon said he wanted to use it, as his arms were getting tired, or something.,

Was Martin trying to kill him? I think not, that is really pushing it to say he was out to kill Zimmerman. Was Martin trying to kick some cracker's ass...well ya... Is there a single person here convince that Martin was trying to kill him?

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

Sure, you can follow me around all day and night, but if I head into a deserted unlit area and you follow me, I am only going to suspect the worst and if you get near enough to be threatening, you're going to pay for it.

You are speculating again though. We don't know the exact details of how close either persons were when it began. Right now, it is he said (Zimmerman) and what people have testified to after the fact (which places Martin on top of Zimmerman).

There is a lot of ground that is missing and cannot be said to be without doubt.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


If George REALLY suspected him of being a burglar, he'd have to suspect he was carrying a burgling tool that could be used for a weapon, also. He didn't actually report Trayvon as "suspected to be armed" in those words, but he put the thought in the dispatcher's head with his comment about hands near waistbands, so George was either making that up, or he really believed it.

If it was the latter, it makes his decision to get out of his vehicle just to find a street sign seem very dubious.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Xtrozero
...but once again he entered in the conflict knowing only he had a gun...

Pure speculation really. There is no way of knowing one is going to get into a fight. We can assume, we can even logically say after the fact, but there is no way of knowing that an altercation would occur or even escalate to the point where it became physical.

Zimmerman knew what he knew, but did not know that Martin wasn't also armed; as it turns out, Zimmerman was the only person armed. This doesn't mean that at some point, Zimmerman thought or didn't think that the person he was observing was or wasn't armed.

edit on 11-7-2013 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)

he used his ace.

No speculation here at all. Zimmerman knew he had a gun he could use at anytime. Martin didn't know he had a gun up until he got a bullet in the chest. So did Zimmerman pull his gun and use it because He thought Martin was going to pull a gun too? I think not. My point is that Martin was not out to kill Zimmerman at any point, but to just kick some weird cracker's ass (in his view) that erupted into a conflict. Zimmerman was not winning so he used his trump card.

I have carried a gun most of my life and I would never be in fear of a man with nothing but his hands. I would also not let it go until the guy was on top of me either, as I have said once a person knows he is up against a gun the situation changes quickly.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Hey, I can speculate all I want. The only person who REALLY knows what happened that night is Zimmerman, and he has hardly proved the most reliable source memory-wise, or honesty-wise. Zimmerman supporters have been quite happy to let their imaginations run rampant thinking about the savage AA kid who attacked their hero, so don't get your panties bunched when the opposition do it.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


This is why there is doubt though. You and I can speculate and question, but the State needs to make a solid case that proves without a doubt. It is a glorious system really.

I have confronted people, where I have viewed in hindsight, that I shouldn't have: drunk neighbor yelling at his/her spouse (they could have easily been armed)...random guy yelling at his "girlfriend" to get back in the "f-ning" truck; he could have been armed...

We make split decisions all the time and not always the best. Luckily (used in the context here only), one person was armed and we didn't see the O.K. Corral in Florida with others injured.