The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by TKDRL


She should move to Kentucky. Safe and not stupid gun laws.

reply to post by MrWendal


I already explained why. The fear he felt was enough, the damage, and alleged words was just the icing on the cake.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I think it is like that in most states too though I guess. In NY there was all kinds, in the city especially. All kinds of places, some places was a bunch of italians, other places a bunch of asians, some places a bunch of puerto ricans, etc etc. I have been judged from both sides of the coin, treated as a white jerk when it was winter, and treated like a colored scumbag from the police when it was summer. My policy was always treat people like people, until they proved themselves to be scum.

Even now, when many treat me like total crap, for reason except I don't speak acadian(canadian french for my part of canada). Half my family was exiled from france, the other half was native here.

Originally posted by Helious
Get over it. True Americans police themselves.

Then why do we even have a Police force in every city and town across the whole country?

If TM wasn't a threat then he could have engaged in intelligent discussion with Zimmerman about his actions and intentions in that neighborhood instead of continuing to act in a sketchy and clandestine fashion.

There was nothing sketchy or clandestine about how he was acting prior to Zimmerman following him. He simply used a known cut through to walk to the store.

Expecting him to have "intelligent discussion" is just silly. Here is a kid who just 21 days prior had turned 17 years old. He is being followed by a man in a vehicle. We teach children from the day one to NOT speak to strangers, yet you expect him to stop and explain himself to a total stranger who was following him around in a car? Your statements would hold true if Zimmerman had identified himself as neighborhood watch- but that never happened. George Zimmerman never said a word to Martin. He just followed him.

His malice and prejudice is clearly outlined by the the profiling remarks he made regarding "The creepy ass cracker". Enough said.

Enough said? Hardly. So following a kid around in a car is not creepy? If you really believe this, please drive to any high school and follow some kid around in your car as he walks home. Let me know how that works out for you. Or do it from a park, the mall, any store.

Don't skulk around residential homes you don't have a business being around and then adopt an attitude of defiance, aggression and prejudice. Citizens are watching and...... Defending.

So Trayvon was wrong for taking a known short cut? That's brilliant.

The remainder of your post is nothing more than race baiting so I have no intentioned of engaging such small mindedness.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

Right now, I thank my lucky stars my sister is out of FL right now lol. I was a bit more concerned when her and her boyfriend where down there. Probably sounds cold, but we both look white lol. Just like Zimmerman, even though we are a good bit native north american. Her boyfriend is also half hispanic and looks white, they were worried enough to move back to NY before the trial even stared, racial tensions were intense.

It's so strange... I lived in Volusia County a year and a half ago. The FBI was doing a sweep on the south side of daytona. They were busting on petty drug crimes and everything they could and trying to get people to rat and roll on any of their neighbors. I was living in a slummy apartment complex on the edge of all these shenanigans and they were sending people around who'd recently got popped kinda conducting a psuedo-sting, since stings are now against the law. They were basically getting people to solicit drugs and harass people... and being being white, me and the guy I was living with were starting to get really annoyed and I even got a rifle.

But the whole time I began seeing that something else was going on. Someone was fueling this... We moved and I have realized that my neighbors had been caught up. I didn't let it effect my perception of minorities, but it drove home the realization to keep the mind sharp, stay out of trouble and do not trust an authoritative position just because it has authority... now this has happened and I still have family down there, but they don't say ANYTHING about having trouble with blacks. Actually, one family member said her black neighbor had to move because her other white neighbor would not let the man be. He harassed the man about everything, the appearance of his house and everything and even though the community did not harass him like that, he moved anyway... and they all can't stand the white man who I think is jewish Italian.

Then I move even further to another state a year and a half ago and something terrible has happened here to young black student... And I know for a fact that this kid had white friends, a big family and group of friends around him... but something weird is going on. Some people are trying to keep it hushed up, while people on social media are coming out of the woodwork to swear that this is gang related and that there are white supremacy groups here and they are trying to seriously aggravate the black people... and I don't think it's the black people who are perpetuating this to this extent, although they usually are aware of white supremacy and hate crimes.... but this is getting really strange. This is no small thing... Sharpton was here for crying out loud.
There's some crazy psychological stuff going down. People know it. It's not like it's a mystery anymore.
It's not like we all just chalk it up to not being able to get along.

Then I read this comment and it seems to me that what is really happening all across the country is that they are trying to start a race war. They are trying to create gang violence and they want to lock kids up, get many of them off to boot camp and perpetuate their police state.

We don't need this crap. We don't need people promoting division.
We have PLENTY of examples of people of different races working side by side.

Yeah, there's crazy people in the world. They come in all colors. Stay away from them, but when it comes to this hate crap... I know it's being fueled. I look back even further than the last few years and have seen numerous examples in my life of these division attempts and now it's all starting to click. When people start referring to petty racial tensions like that's the most important thing to talk about in current news when it's causing all people a lot of suffering like the victims of these crimes... I know what that is. That's fuel. That's nothing more than fuel.

Why the hell would *I* care if you LOOK white?

I AM white!

I lived in Volusia county! In different areas of the county. I have been to Sanford plenty of times. I've probably driven past where this kid was killed numerous times. Now I live in another town where people want to spread this fear about yet another crimes and another young black man is dead!

I AM white... I lived there! I am not afraid of black people. Some of these people are my friends. I grew up with them. I've worked with them. I've hung out with them. Some of them have been a lot nicer to me than a lot of white people and to read certain things is just appalling.

Why, again, do we care that you LOOK white and are glad your relatives are out of Florida.

Oh, thank Jesus that this white looking person is out of Florida because it's so terrible due to all the blacks.
Everything in the news is going to be just fine now.

WTF!

reply to post by Helious


Ha ha ha. That proves he was racist?? He was talking to a friend. We have been over this ad nauseam. It is slang. He was a "creepy ass cracker" that was stalking TM, following him in his car like a creepy pedophile. It is slang. It is slang. It is slang.

You are so dense. Really. My white sons have used the term, and have used the slang term "nigga". All their friends do the same thing. In texts, on facebook, in my living room. The term is "nigga". It is slang. It is kind of like saying "dude". They will say to each other, "Whas up nigga", or "Whas up my nigga". It is how kid's talk. Seriously, you can't be that naive. Do you live in a cave??

Man you guys will reach for anything. It is very sad.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Congratulations, you were a white person that was accepted. I am glad you are doing great now. You had it better than my sister, and her boyfriend. Would you like a cookie? Maybe they were just too uppity, I don't know. After being threatened for being "too white" they thought it was time to bounce. I don't blame them. Seeing as both were only half or less white, and being treated like crap, yeah, time to bounce.

reply to post by TKDRL


I grew up in NC and all sides were racist I wasn’t immune to it however my father didn’t tolerate it even though he had come from the south I think he lost that way of thinking after the military. As for myself at 17 I joined the Army and I remember from the beginning they drilled it into us that the only color that mattered there was green Army green after that point I couldn’t tolerate it either.

Since that point even after becoming a civilian again I have run across some race holdouts but they seem so small minded to me that I just do not associate with them. Makes for a tight group of friends but they are quality people IMO. Probably the worst I had ever seen it though was when I was stationed in Georgia back in the 90s I couldn’t wait to get out of there for many reasons.

reply to post by GrantedBail


I have heard many say what's up my nigga. I have never heard anyone say what's up my cracka. Is that really normal where you are at?

reply to post by MrWendal

Then why do we even have a Police force in every city and town across the whole country?

Primarily to collect revenue for infractions committed within their jurisdiction. Subsequently to provide service and protection to the community as a WHOLE. It has already been ruled in higher courts that police officers have no specific duty, contractually or implied to protect you as a private citizen. That is fact.

There was nothing sketchy or clandestine about how he was acting prior to Zimmerman following him. He simply used a known cut through to walk to the store. Expecting him to have "intelligent discussion" is just silly. Here is a kid who just 21 days prior had turned 17 years old. He is being followed by a man in a vehicle. We teach children from the day one to NOT speak to strangers, yet you expect him to stop and explain himself to a total stranger who was following him around in a car? Your statements would hold true if Zimmerman had identified himself as neighborhood watch- but that never happened. George Zimmerman never said a word to Martin. He just followed him.

Your thinking with emotion and letting your own logic fail you. He was traveling though a neighborhood that was not his own, that had problems with crime in general and while I do not fully expect his behavior to conform to what I would think would be reasonable because everyone has there own mind and thought process I would think that conversation of some sort would have been a preface to the confrontation if it had not been for Martins proven racism.

Enough said? Hardly. So following a kid around in a car is not creepy? If you really believe this, please drive to any high school and follow some kid around in your car as he walks home. Let me know how that works out for you. Or do it from a park, the mall, any store.

It's a high crime area, communities in these types of situations very often police themselves. A mall, a park or a store is an acknowledged place of public gathering and can not and should not be compared to a residential setting. Nobody should be picking people who seem "out of place" out at a mall, a park or a store. The situation and evaluation is much different in a neighborhood that has frequent crime. The question of the nature of your business there is more relevant and valid.

So Trayvon was wrong for taking a known short cut? That's brilliant. The remainder of your post is nothing more than race baiting so I have no intentioned of engaging such small mindedness.

Say what you wish. Soon, jury members of Zimmermans peers will acquit him of any wrong doing thus proving me right in my sentiment and logic. For once, perhaps, the American justice system will do something that it rarely does, dole out justice.

EDIT: Btw, I removed you from my friends list for the "small mindedness comment" that was uncalled for and I can assure you that I don't have a "small mind".

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


You base this scenario upon what?? There is no evidence to back that up. The only thing that gives that "story" any credence are George's words. That is it. Period. It is just you and George.

The evidence shows that George followed Trayvon, Trayvon ran, George pursued. THAT IS THE EVIDENCE.

The "alibi" is all George all the time.

The rest is just crap you made up. Or have assumed. Nothing in evidence shows ONE thing you purport to have happened in your fantasy land.

You sir, would buy oceanfront property in Colorado if George was selling it.

That is really where it is at.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I do hear ya dude. My father told me many stories in his childhood, when he was beat up for talking to black kids. When he first came to the US, he said he didn't know black people were even real. He didn't speak english when he first got here, so he related more to the outcast blacks than he did to "other white people". My mother tells me stories too, about being one of the few kids at the time that was white during the race riots. Crazy stuff. Hating, or wanting to hurt a person because they are a different race or nationality is totally alien to me. My people have been screwed up until a few years ago up here, and most people up here don't even know! Seriously, they have no idea what their government has done, death camps for natives. It's insane, but I do not blame most canadians for it. They are just stupid, like most americans.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by Libertygal

 

Wrong. He said the job of scraping the fingernails was that of the technicians. He also stated that different states have different protocols. Some require cuttings and some don't. It was not that the autopsy wasn't done correctly; it was that the snipping of the fingernails is not in the protocol for the technicians in Florida.

Wrong? That's not his job. That is what I said. How do you kbow it wasn't done correctly? You don't, no more than I do, but he sure has many issues he needs to answer for. He also has his own agenda, as can be seen as evident throughout his testimony. Particularly, his testimony about the marijuana, and when he spoke to the attorney, hs said it MUST be told to the jury, they had the right to know, "Just like the case before this". Hmmm. I wonder what that meant? Anyway,.


Begin transcript:

Part of the protocol also includes fingernail cliippings, correct?

Is not my protocol. Is not my job. Is technician job. They are trained to do that.

Don't you supervise the technicians?

I supervise them.

Don't you make aure they do their job? Completely and correctly?

I have confidence on them. They are trained to do their job. I cannot keep my eye on them whwn I do autopsy. I so autospy, my hand is gloves, my hand is bloody.

Are you doing an autopsy with bloody gloved hands when the fingernails are scraped?

No. I look at them before we do autopsy.

Sure.

And after we look at it and wd write down... we should write, at that point, and we start autopsy. And we never look again.

So you are saying you do not know whether or not it's standard protocol to make fingernail clippings as well as scrapings?

No. I don't know. I even don't know that protocol exist because it's not part of my job.

May I approach the witness?

You may.

I am going to show you what's called an Evidence Accountability Sheet?

Yes.

You have that?

Yeah, I do have that.

This one?

Right. And do you see that there is

Yeah.

A checkbox for fingernails scrapings that's checked?

Yes.

And do you see one for fingernail clippings that is not checked? Correct?

Ye.. yes.

That tells you then that there were no fingernail clippings

Yes.

As a part of the autopsy procedure here.


And actually, I remember in uh Texaz we do cljpping, here we so scraping. It's, it'uh, Cheif's call. The Cheif of Medical Examiner Office makes a decision how to do the business. I am the Associate Medical Examiner. My job isto determine the cause and manner of death. I will not worry about the protocol the technician have.

You don't worry about whether the technician is following the protocol of the office?

Yeah.

It's not your job.

No. It's not.

And in this case, so you would have no idea why no fingernail clippings were preserved?

Yeah. Yeah, I, I was there. I don't remember what they did, it's not my job to worry about it.

So that would mean then, that you don't know if they weren't kept because they chose not to.

Yeah, if they do not do that I...

Or, or, that there weren't any fingernail clippings because the nails were so short, they couldn't get any. You don't know.

I told you before, I don't remember.

End

Yet, he can remember Texas, he can remember that he talked to the attorney about the marijuana and thc, but because he didn't take notes ir write down, he can't remember if he told the attorney about the 1-3 to 1-10 minute thing?

The guy is all over the place.

What supervisor doesn't know policy and supervise? Obviously, this one.

The clothing was bagged improperly. Where are the shoes? Aren't they missing? Where are the pants? Really?

He can remember when it suits him, but otherwise, this mans' head is a black hole. He remembers doing 100 hours of work ok his notes, but not what the notes are about? He can remember well talking about the thc, but not the 1-3 minute thing? He can remembef policy in Texas, but not where he works now? Seeiously?

Maybe what needs to be done is to have the technician called in order to describe the protocol for his position. Or we can just assume there was an issue because the defense brought it up on re=direct. Perhaps it was just a strategy to perplex the jury.

The defense can surely call the tech. but I doubt they will. They only purpose for that line of questioning was to create some doubt in the juries mind regarding the efficiency of the autopsy.

This is lawyering 101.

I have no doubts the technician will be called. The clothing was mishandled, and perhaps the body. It needs to be brought out in testimony.

216.157.37.6...

Forensic Technicians:
Priscilla Feller
Mark Eisel
Benjamin Dorton

m.clickorlando.com...

See here for the witness list.

reply to post by GrantedBail


One of the two has damage to their face and head. One of the two has damage to their fists. Do you believe Zimmerman decided to beat Martin's hands with his head?

reply to post by GrantedBail


I base it on all the evidence that supports it. So.. Evidence. I base it on evidence (the exact opposite of what you base your scenarios on).

reply to post by TKDRL


No they don't say "whas up my cracka". Is that a saying you have ever heard??

But I have heard the slang term "cracker" used amongst white teenage boys.

It is slang, it is slang, it is slang. To suggest otherwise is just ignorant.


However: "He is up to no good", "#ing punks always get away", et al does suggest a bias on the part of Zimmerman. It may not be a racial bias, but a bias none the less.

reply to post by GrantedBail


I have never heard teenage anything call anyone cracker. Not white people, not black people, not spanish people, not natives like myself. Well, the drunk ass losers of my culture, but to be honest, I don't take them any more seriously than I would some KKK or whatever racist groups

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by Helious

 

Ha ha ha. That proves he was racist?? He was talking to a friend. We have been over this ad nauseam. It is slang. He was a "creepy ass cracker" that was stalking TM, following him in his car like a creepy pedophile. It is slang. It is slang. It is slang.

You are so dense. Really. My white sons have used the term, and have used the slang term "nigga". All their friends do the same thing. In texts, on facebook, in my living room. The term is "nigga". It is slang. It is kind of like saying "dude". They will say to each other, "Whas up nigga", or "Whas up my nigga". It is how kid's talk. Seriously, you can't be that naive. Do you live in a cave??

Man you guys will reach for anything. It is very sad.

edit on 6-7-2013 by GrantedBail because: (no reason given)

If that person is to white to go to Florida, then they are too white to be saying that.

If you don't know the difference and how fake/wishy washy that sounds, then maybe you shouldn't be educating us on what slang is.

Some bikers call each other bitches. If they call me a bitch out of the blue, I'm not going to appreciate it.

If that man does not approve of that, that person should respect that and not say it.

If I have to explain this to, I have to wonder how many cocktails you've had.

Furthermore... how did this even become important to this topic?

OH NO.... THE WORLDS COMING APART BECAUSE WE CAN'T ACT LIKE DISRESPECTFUL PUNKS.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Here is your big chance Gogo. WHAT is your evidence?? Put it out there. Not your 'boys" alibi in his own words.

Give me something....anything.

Don't embarrass yourself. Cuz, about now, you are looking pretty weak.

Cough it up.

reply to post by GrantedBail


Sounds like you don't understand the US justice system much. The prosecution has to present evidence that he is full of it, not the other way around. They have not come close to it, every shred of evidence has come confirming his story.