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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ
What is contradictory about it at all? The experience is joy. There is nothing 'deeper' in life (and existence) than joy. When you die, what will have mattered about your life? You will eventually forget it, and it will be as if it never happened at all. You say it is 'self-seeking'. What else do you have, but yourself? All experience is experience that you have, utterly alone. You cannot not be 'self-seeking', because all you have is is yourself. The only reason you ever do anything is because it means something to you. This is unavoidable, no matter how you look at it. Spirituality is true selfishness.
It was contradictory because you said, using your thoughts, that thinking was "useless", "self-seeking", "nostalgia" thereby making your thought, in your own mind, worthless and not worth a damn. How should I perceive your words if you call them useless? The very act of using thoughts to get your point across, despite your speaking ill of it, is contradictory.
Thoughts and words will not comfort you - they divide that which is whole - division is conflict.
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ
What is contradictory about it at all? The experience is joy. There is nothing 'deeper' in life (and existence) than joy. When you die, what will have mattered about your life? You will eventually forget it, and it will be as if it never happened at all. You say it is 'self-seeking'. What else do you have, but yourself? All experience is experience that you have, utterly alone. You cannot not be 'self-seeking', because all you have is is yourself. The only reason you ever do anything is because it means something to you. This is unavoidable, no matter how you look at it. Spirituality is true selfishness.
It was contradictory because you said, using your thoughts, that thinking was "useless", "self-seeking", "nostalgia" thereby making your thought, in your own mind, worthless and not worth a damn. How should I perceive your words if you call them useless? The very act of using thoughts to get your point across, despite your speaking ill of it, is contradictory.
Thoughts and words will not comfort you - they divide that which is whole - division is conflict.
Did you think this up on your own?edit on 5/26/2013 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)
Well...there is that school of thought that places impetus on the observer. And they may be right. If they are, then it could stand to reason that we create the reality we live within collectively.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ
What is contradictory about it at all? The experience is joy. There is nothing 'deeper' in life (and existence) than joy. When you die, what will have mattered about your life? You will eventually forget it, and it will be as if it never happened at all. You say it is 'self-seeking'. What else do you have, but yourself? All experience is experience that you have, utterly alone. You cannot not be 'self-seeking', because all you have is is yourself. The only reason you ever do anything is because it means something to you. This is unavoidable, no matter how you look at it. Spirituality is true selfishness.
It was contradictory because you said, using your thoughts, that thinking was "useless", "self-seeking", "nostalgia" thereby making your thought, in your own mind, worthless and not worth a damn. How should I perceive your words if you call them useless? The very act of using thoughts to get your point across, despite your speaking ill of it, is contradictory.
No it was realized.
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ
What is contradictory about it at all? The experience is joy. There is nothing 'deeper' in life (and existence) than joy. When you die, what will have mattered about your life? You will eventually forget it, and it will be as if it never happened at all. You say it is 'self-seeking'. What else do you have, but yourself? All experience is experience that you have, utterly alone. You cannot not be 'self-seeking', because all you have is is yourself. The only reason you ever do anything is because it means something to you. This is unavoidable, no matter how you look at it. Spirituality is true selfishness.
It was contradictory because you said, using your thoughts, that thinking was "useless", "self-seeking", "nostalgia" thereby making your thought, in your own mind, worthless and not worth a damn. How should I perceive your words if you call them useless? The very act of using thoughts to get your point across, despite your speaking ill of it, is contradictory.
Thoughts and words will not comfort you - they divide that which is whole - division is conflict.
Did you think this up on your own?edit on 5/26/2013 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)
No it was realized.
re·al·ize [ree-uh-lahyz]
verb, re·al·ized, re·al·iz·ing.
verb (used with object)
1. to grasp or understand clearly.
2. to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
3. to bring vividly to the mind.
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ
What is contradictory about it at all? The experience is joy. There is nothing 'deeper' in life (and existence) than joy. When you die, what will have mattered about your life? You will eventually forget it, and it will be as if it never happened at all. You say it is 'self-seeking'. What else do you have, but yourself? All experience is experience that you have, utterly alone. You cannot not be 'self-seeking', because all you have is is yourself. The only reason you ever do anything is because it means something to you. This is unavoidable, no matter how you look at it. Spirituality is true selfishness.
It was contradictory because you said, using your thoughts, that thinking was "useless", "self-seeking", "nostalgia" thereby making your thought, in your own mind, worthless and not worth a damn. How should I perceive your words if you call them useless? The very act of using thoughts to get your point across, despite your speaking ill of it, is contradictory.
Thoughts and words will not comfort you - they divide that which is whole - division is conflict.
Did you think this up on your own?edit on 5/26/2013 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)
No it was realized.
Dude, that requires thought.
re·al·ize [ree-uh-lahyz]
verb, re·al·ized, re·al·iz·ing.
verb (used with object)
1. to grasp or understand clearly.
2. to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
3. to bring vividly to the mind.
Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Visitor2012
I have no idea what they perceived. And made no claim of such (reread). I only claim that what they have experienced is the same s the rest of us: what their senses allowed them to perceive.
I know this to be true because you cannot perceive anything you cannot sense, or you would not be perceiving it.
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Thoughts and words will not comfort you - they divide that which is whole - division is conflict.
Did you think this up on your own?
No it was realized.
Dude, that requires thought.
re·al·ize [ree-uh-lahyz]
verb, re·al·ized, re·al·iz·ing.
verb (used with object)
1. to grasp or understand clearly.
2. to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
3. to bring vividly to the mind.
Realization happens prior to words to convey the realization. It is impossible to put into words but one tries. How can nothing be put into words - it is not a thing, not a concept, prior to any description and beyond any description.
Originally posted by Visitor2012
Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Visitor2012
I have no idea what they perceived. And made no claim of such (reread). I only claim that what they have experienced is the same s the rest of us: what their senses allowed them to perceive.
I know this to be true because you cannot perceive anything you cannot sense, or you would not be perceiving it.
You said that their experience is the same as ours. And you know this how? Sense perception is a very limited perception, and their is perception that is beyond mind/body senses. I would gamble that these Monks have at least discovered that.edit on 26-5-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Thoughts and words will not comfort you - they divide that which is whole - division is conflict.
Did you think this up on your own?
No it was realized.
Dude, that requires thought.
re·al·ize [ree-uh-lahyz]
verb, re·al·ized, re·al·iz·ing.
verb (used with object)
1. to grasp or understand clearly.
2. to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
3. to bring vividly to the mind.
Realization happens prior to words to convey the realization.
Realization requires the processing of information - period. That's what thinking is. You think, and then you think about how you want to convey what it is that you just thought. I'm sorry, but you're no different than any other human being with a brain. If I had access to an fMRI machine, we could prove it.edit on 5/26/2013 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Thoughts and words will not comfort you - they divide that which is whole - division is conflict.
Did you think this up on your own?
No it was realized.
Dude, that requires thought.
re·al·ize [ree-uh-lahyz]
verb, re·al·ized, re·al·iz·ing.
verb (used with object)
1. to grasp or understand clearly.
2. to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
3. to bring vividly to the mind.
Realization happens prior to words to convey the realization.
Realization requires the processing of information - period. That's what thinking is. You think, and then you think about how you want to convey what it is that you just thought. I'm sorry, but you're no different than any other human being with a brain. If I had access to an fMRI machine, we could prove it.edit on 5/26/2013 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)
It would be interesting to see if our brains look different on a MRI scan.
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain
No it was realized.
This is what I'm talking about. The promotion of some "divine inspiration", "realization", understanding, as if your own thinking wasn't the source of your words. Way to take responsibility for what you say. No matter what dress you hide it under, the lace still peers out from beneath.edit on 26-5-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)
Not that i disagree with you....but it is all conjecture. At the age of 40, i have spent a decent amount of time on this subject. I would suspect that when I am 60, i will be in largely the same boat that I am in today, only with 20 more years of thinking behind it.
We just don't know. Even a monk who has been locked in a cave for 40 years....all they know are what they have perceived. And given the shoddy state of our ability to percieve, that is just as questionable as anything to me.
We're mimicking the way that reality is structured.
Oh, and consciousness is the active and aware sense of self. Your statement concerning consciousness makes no sense. If that's also God, then I feel sorry for Him.
Originally posted by dominicus
Those who say it is not so, who haven't looked themselves, are window shopping speculators.