Spirituality & Becoming What We Aren’t.

I don't think there is anything wrong with people claiming they are spiritual and not religious. It's just a semantic way of saying you do not believe in any of the prescribed religions and their philosophies. Yet, that is not to say that there are some who feel there is "something"more to life. Why must we give that "something" a name like "god".

I'm open to the possibility that we are living in a simulated universe, does that require a spiritual belief? I don't believe it does. I do yoga and meditation because it was prescribed by my neuropsychologist not a guru. I'm not in search of enlightenment or a spiritual experience, but if it improves my health then I will continue to practice.

Do I believe there may be "something" more to life? Possibly.

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Originally posted by dominicus
There is a Source to all thoughts. Grab on to One and Don't let it go, and it will lead you to the source of all thoughts, which will eventually extinguish all of the coming and going of them, leaving only pure crystal clear thoughtless-at-all-times Spontaneous-Now-Oneness

This is an interesting concept. Would you care to elaborate on it?

There' many levels to all these things we are speaking about. Being in the "Observer State" (prior to thought) and observing thoughts and thinking is a preliminary state and is not the end all be all.

The thoughts that come and go are part of the Subconscious mechanism, of which there is tons of spring cleaning that happens over years and years. There are many things there, archetypes, memories of existing prior to human birth, etc etc.

However for all thoughts to come to an end, which is a reality, it requires grabbing on to a thought and holding on to it, and nothing else. This "thought" will then eventually re-enter back into the source of thoughts and will reveal where all thoughts come and go out of.

It is a real phenomenon. When the body is tired, the mind starts to settle down and thoughts are less and less. All of it revolves around the thought - ' I ' (or I am this _______(fill in the blank) ...body, person, name, gender, etc)

However the root is the ' I ' Thought. which comes and goes. If you do hard core Observing of all phenomenon that occur within, particularly upon the body waking, and the body falling asleep, you will ctach exactly what happens.

Upon the body waking, The 'I' Thought (along with all of the associations to it) emerge from a specific place within, and eventually take's it's place in the Head, super-imposing a filter over all reality. I'm sure you're already at the point where you've noticed the illusion based super-imposing)

When the body is tired, and sleep is about to occur, Observing The 'I-Thought" and all of it's associations will reveal that it leaves the head area and goes into a specific place which leaves a state of No-Thought based pure Awareness.

Now I'm speaking from direct experience and also found that Ramana Maharshi also revealed this, along with Adi Da, and few other modern day philosopher types.

So what you do, is you keep One-Pointed Awareness only on the "I-thought" and disregard all other associations that it has. And since it is the main Tap-Root of the ego, holding on to it in One-pointedness, it will eventually go into the place where it comes out of, taking the Awareness-Observer with it, and revealing the Source of all thought ....an actual place within.

Once that Source of thought is revealed, the Tap-Root is pulled, all associations are cleansed (takes some time), and a permanent state of no ego thought-less Oneness-Awareness-Spontaneous-Being occurs.

That's not the end of it though. There is also a Source of Love/Emotion that can be realized. A source of the Life/Energy that animates the body can be realized. And a source of the Observer/Awareness/Consciousness that can be realized.

So Observer, with all the thoughts still arising and falling away is still an intermediary state. They can be completely wiped out and cleanses through realizing the Source of all thought within.

reply to post by dominicus


That is a very interesting approach, however I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you mean by 'holding on' to the thought. Does that imply keeping the 'I' thought in your head repeating over and over?

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by dominicus

 

That is a very interesting approach, however I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you mean by 'holding on' to the thought. Does that imply keeping the 'I' thought in your head repeating over and over?

It's difficult to explain. With constant observing of the mind and the way it claims "I", doership based on the I thought, you will become aware of the moment and the instinct for the Mind to say "I am _______, I have to________, I need________

There is a flavor and a feeling of the I thought. Just Observing it in play, constantly, especially in the body waking and sleeping, will reveal where the source of thought is, or at least inklings in the beginning and more and more as observing continues. Eventually Awareness/Observer can enter into the place where thought emerges. That's one way.

As far as holding onto the I thought.......It's kind of tricky. It's not just saying it over and over and watching it. But also getting the feel for it, seeing when it emerges, acts, claims, basically the constant act of mindful observation of it, will undress the emperor and reveal it.

Instead of saying I, I, I ,I over with the mind and then holding onto it as awareness/observer, watching, it's better to just be on standby and be ready for when it emerges itself in any moment/situation, and then stay Aware and attached to it for as long as possible, in one-pointedness while disregarding all other thoughts that come and go. You'll lose it here and there, because it's a tricky bastard, but eventually in constant Observation/Awareness, and One-pointed Concentrated attachment to it, it will go into the source of thought and reveal the source of all thoughts/Subconsciousness, etc.

It's confusing at first, but with practice comes very easy and naturally.

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

People who haven't noticed it are either unwavering in their devotion to their cultural religion, or lying to themselves abjectly.

Everyone believes something. Maybe we are hardwired, or maybe just encoded with cultural bias. But we all believe something. Even atheists, who believe in science and/or man.

True spirituality is about dropping all belief, all bias, all judgement -- and letting the bliss of Knowing engulf you.

edit on 26-5-2013 by HarryTZ because: (no reason given)

This amounts to a "No Real Scotsman" fallacy.

reply to post by dominicus


Ah, I think I understand more clearly now. It's just about becoming aware when the 'I' identification arises, and watching the patterns and redundancies of it. That makes sense.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
This amounts to a "No Real Scotsman" fallacy.

In this case it is not a fallacy.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
reply to post by dominicus

 

Ah, I think I understand more clearly now. It's just about becoming aware when the 'I' identification arises, and watching the patterns and redundancies of it. That makes sense.

Yes, that's it. However, that does not promise you that Awareness will be able to enter into the Source of thought. That's why many advise locking in concentrated Awareness onto the the "I-Thought" which will then pull awareness into the source of thought.

Same with Love/Emotion, same with the life force that animates the body, and Awareness itself ha a source within. This is all covered in Dzogchen and Advanced Buddhist and Hindu studies, along with Mystical Christianity has this as well.

Being Awareness detached from mind/ego and body is just One preliminary stage and this is where the whole Neo-Advaita movement stems from. People realize themselves as Awareness prior to the Body and mind, and they stop there, believing they are complete. But this is not it

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
This amounts to a "No Real Scotsman" fallacy.

In this case it is not a fallacy.

It is until we know, rather than conjecture.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


That is true...

reply to post by dominicus

I've noticed you hanging around the "Spirituality, Ego" topics for quite a while now, and also taking part in the neo-advaita non-duality circle jerks for a while now. I wonder the most, what is your motivation for posting this thread?

I'm critiquing the ideals everyone around here seem to hold so dear. I'm doing so to practice thinking, writing and challenging my own preconceptions to these ideals. This is a good board for that. Language and thought is simply enjoyable so I engage in it. I'm merely exploring these topics playfully, offering something to think about. One isn't forced to read it.

That's what's lacking. I once used to take all the same stances as you, but mine were even worse because I was an Atheist and strict materialist. Until a realization/epiphany happens, these things are not understood and hence bias forms.

Likewise, I once took all the same stances as you until a realization happened. No difference.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Everyone believes something.

That's just a belief , ....ad infinitum. No but seriously, there is more to it than that. There is experience, being, existing, knowing, listening......it goes way beyond and deeper than just belief systems.

Maybe we are hardwired, or maybe just encoded with cultural bias. But we all believe something. Even atheists, who believe in science and/or man.

Well because inherently we are all souls, spirits inhabiting a material realm in a material body. We put on the veil of forgetfulness when born here.

So it is already subconsciously built into most individuals that there is a spiritual world that we come from and a source that we were created out of.

The extension of all of that is religions.

The existence of Atheism is predominantly the extension of a childhood existential angst in which there is only awareness and experience, with a prominence in logic and reason due to cultural Western programming, genetics, and lack of intuition/heart/inner knowledge.

reply to post by dominicus


Thank you for this.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Likewise, I once took all the same stances as you until a realization happened. No difference.

So you had an epiphany of materialism? I do find that quite difficult to believe...

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Likewise, I once took all the same stances as you until a realization happened. No difference.

Depending on your realization, if it was one based on the True nature of Being, on knowledge of thyself (giving you then extensive insight into the nature of another), then for the most part, you would be in agreement with me and you yourself would understand the possibility of Spirituality without religion (both itself possibly turning into a religion, and the possibility of a true humanistic spirituality without religion) and would have no need to post such a thread if there was a complete understanding.

You bring up good points in the OP, but every single one of them can be countered in 10-100 different ways based on friendly debate and mental masterbation, but ultimately, how much closer will you be to Truth or Enlightenment.

Some people look at what Myself, Itsnowagain, and HarryTZ talk about, and they don't experientially understand it, so they create these massive mental abstractions that just lead into more confusion and then finally outright rejection.

OF course this post too could be my mind taking everything you've posted and your motivations for it, as a completely entirely different meaning. It could be an egoic-circle jerk ad infinitum to show those who get it, that those who are talking about no ego, keep revealing their own, continuously.

Or perhaps I've dug too deep.

Regardless, there is a Universal Truth that all can agree on and can experience, that is revealed when all belief and thought is suspended. It's transcendent and mystical, yet can be experienced and there are no disagreements about it, by those who have tasted

reply to post by LesMisanthrope



[color=cyan]
Becoming What We Aren’t?
-or just forgetting what WE ARE?

attached to a materialist layout of Life
-Preventing SIGHT OUT AFAR

of Objective reality, that of the more metaphysic
-trapped in the physical understanding ONLY, bounded by what taught to as LIVE?

CAN be overwhelming and so 1 sends compassion thru
-This is NOT an attack but some strength maybe LIGHT to YOU...

that the Spiritual connection SEEKED, subconsciously-subliminally
-IS NOT A FIGHT FOR YOU, but a personal battle mentally.

Its more based on your, TRUTH intents
-and recognizing when one feels ALONE, that's not the case, nor never has been

and with these INTENTS, or soul based vibra / resonations
-your frequency and OTHERS connect elsewhere, a connection taught as separation..?

Connection connections, or is IT LAWS OF ATTRACT?

signifying the more metaphysical or spiritual connections energy side
-or is it PARANORMAL infact.?

REMEMBER there is no force, for the force is YOUR own WILL
-TO seek LEARN and encourage or even objectively recognize what's real.

INTENTS indeed the best way to determine
-while existing in LIFE ONLY

MANY attempt to make Heaven out of these moments...

NAMASTE*******

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Fvcking brilliant!

I got nothing to add. I just wanted to applaud. Excellent.

reply to post by dominicus


Not that i disagree with you....but it is all conjecture. At the age of 40, i have spent a decent amount of time on this subject. I would suspect that when I am 60, i will be in largely the same boat that I am in today, only with 20 more years of thinking behind it.

We just don't know. Even a monk who has been locked in a cave for 40 years....all they know are what they have perceived. And given the shoddy state of our ability to percieve, that is just as questionable as anything to me.

reply to post by dominicus


Exactly. Here's a quote from the book Conversations With God which does liberty to the concept you speak of:

God does not reveal Godself to Godself [humans] from or through outward observation, but through inward experience. And when inward experience has revealed Godself, outward observation is not necessary. And if outward observation is necessary, inward experience is not possible.