Get READY...Insurers predict 100% to 400% Obamacare rate explosion !!

Originally posted by seabag

Minimum wage is for beginners. Anybody with a good work ethic and common sense can work their way up in no time. If you’re a job-hopper or dumber than a box of rocks then I don’t know what to tell you…I guess you’re doomed to scrape by on minimum wage.

That MIGHT have been true before the automation and outsourcing frenzy created by wall street, but that was like 30 years ago dude. Learning a trade, aka becoming a craftsmen you might as well learn chineese and robotics as well. Then get used to the sweat shop conditions. I hate to generalise but your off-topic nonsense forces me to.

Last time I heard 30% could NOT afford ANY BASIC healthcare plan. That is about 100 million americans who are either on welfare or pay healtcare out of their pocket(god forbid they ever get really sick and die).

Many of those people chose not to get insurance and simply don’t pay their hospital bills when they get treatment! That’s one reason prices are so damn high! Responsible people pay 2-3 times as much because 100,000,000 make excuses about why they can’t pay.

Apparently you don't understand the big picture and that is why you choose to focus on micro-economics. Everyone is not the same. They are not all smart, lucky, educated, healthy, connected, etc. Its the nature of the beast.

Compounded "mistakes" lead to disaster. Conservatives just don't care and many work for the government anyway.

Oh really? It’s a conservative problem? Who has been running the country for the last 5 years - Conservatives?

And who was running it before obama? Oh yea george bush jr for 8 years!

Don't play me as a democrat cause I ain't one and even said so before. I simply have more in common with democrats because financially I am progressive, not liberal.

reply to post by ThreeBears

But DON'T lump the poor into the dumb, lazy category either, it's one not true and two, NOT REALISTIC. Many College Educated people are working low paying jobs right now, including minimum wage jobs Because there ISN'T any work where they are at,

That's NOT their fault NOR does that mean they should be demonized and treated as less than.

Seriously though, excuses are like…..never mind.

Reality isn't EXCUSES, you, yes, are LUCKY, not smarter, but LUCKY. Nothing Wrong with that, and not slighting you for that,

I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my rear end. I was nearly homeless (had nowhere to live) when I joined the military. I made my own luck. That’s my point. People need to stop making excuses.

I’m sorry for taking just a few of your points and responding but I just don’t think anything I say will persuade you so I’m moving on now.

Cheers (Ma’am)!

Weird, my family and friends, except one guy, are all gonna get more favorable rates and my job is not changing anything about my medical, in fact I'm finally gonna get vision added.

And from the looks of that link, the insurance companies are gonna try to get together and fight against the bill by exploiting loopholes and attempt to artificially inflate the rates (which will probably get stopped anyway). Why would they all collectively try to scam us and fight the bill? Well, because the bill is not good for them and their profit -- which is and was the intention of the bill anyway.

[snipped]

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

That MIGHT have been true before the automation and outsourcing frenzy created by wall street

YAWN…..

It’s as true now as it ever was. Just more excuses…really.

Everyone is not the same. They are not all smart, lucky, educated, healthy, connected, etc. Its the nature of the beast

That’s true…some people succeed and others fail. For most it’s a CHOICE whether they know it or not!

And who was running it before obama? Oh yea george bush jr for 8 years!

Another guy who isn’t a conservative! Bush was a big government Republican who gave us the Patriot Act and 2 wars....hardly conservative IMO.

Don't play me as a democrat cause I ain't one and even said so before. I simply have more in common with democrats because financially I am progressive, not liberal.

I didn’t put words in your mouth. You said “Conservatives just don't care and many work for the government anyway.” Sounds like liberal slander against a group you disagree with.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

The free market sounds great in theory

The free market is great! Price is determined by supply and demand. But healthcare is not the free market and all the evils and ills that have followed are a result of treating it as if it was.

Demand for healthcare...disease, illness, injury is not related to income, willingness to "work hard"....it is fixed.

You can't work harder to rid yourself of Cancer...and Cancer doesn't care if you are rich or poor, old or a child..

Healthcare has no place in the free market.

I bet both cancer and aids could be treated but some people don't want that. Our system can barely handle people dying at 80, can you imagine the average lifespan being extended to 110? The government would collapse within a year at most.

Big Pharma prefers treating the symptoms than curing the disease. They make long time customers that way.

Generally speaking I agree with you though. Oil and gas drilling, healthcare, nuclear energy, space exploration, basic education, transportation, parks, hospitals, roads, bridges, tunnels, airports, seaports, museums, military, prisons, etc should be public endeavors funded by the tax payers.

We need to get the hell out of war industry YESTERDAY and focus on social welfare and progress for a change.

Never mind that insurance premiums have increased nearly 200%, each decade, for the last two decades.

Lets pretend and ignore that pertainent reality, it's nicer to pretend is the black, communist Muslims doing it.

reply to post by seabag


That is unless the excuse is real

I suppose in your world they blame the paramedic for failing to heal the burn victim.

I bet Obama creamed the economy back in sept 08! It was his fault that the entire economy dropped into historic free fall!

Must have been by design, so you guys can complain and make up fantasy for eight years!

That just can't be true

In 2008 when Obama was running for President he told us that the average family would save $2500 per year and right before the election he promised $3000

He wouldn't have lied to get elected would he?

Read the report...it is littered with CYA language as they played with the numbers. Could be 400%...IF you don't count X, Y, Z etc. etc. etc. It is also littered with political language. Otherwise...it reads like propaganda, not a genuine analysis. Not buying it.

More so after googling who is on this committee and thier previous "reports"...
energycommerce.house.gov...

Originally posted by Indigo5
Read the report...it is littered with CYA language as they played with the numbers. Could be 400%...IF you don't count X, Y, Z etc. etc. etc. It is also littered with political language. Otherwise...it reads like propaganda, not a genuine analysis. Not buying it.

More so after googling who is on this committee and thier previous "reports"...
energycommerce.house.gov...

Never mind that premiums increased 180% between 2000 and 2008... That doesn't count though because that would require some sanity to examine.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

That MIGHT have been true before the automation and outsourcing frenzy created by wall street

YAWN…..

It’s as true now as it ever was. Just more excuses…really.

Nope. The only one making excuses is you! Maybe we live on different planets though.

Everyone is not the same. They are not all smart, lucky, educated, healthy, connected, etc. Its the nature of the beast

That’s true…some people succeed and others fail. For most it’s a CHOICE whether they know it or not!

The illegals have more choices and so does the boss. Boss likes under-table pay with no SS contribution, disability, unemployment, etc. Illegal says "gracias amigo" and "high school loser" goes on welfare.

And who was running it before obama? Oh yea george bush jr for 8 years!

Another guy who isn’t a conservative! Bush was a big government Republican who gave us the Patriot Act and 2 wars....hardly conservative IMO.

Yeah he was a neoconservative.

Don't play me as a democrat cause I ain't one and even said so before. I simply have more in common with democrats because financially I am progressive, not liberal.

I didn’t put words in your mouth. You said “Conservatives just don't care and many work for the government anyway.” Sounds like liberal slander against a group you disagree with.

I dislike both parties immensely. I just have a bit more in common with liberals than conservatives. Anyway we are stuck with globalist schmucks who hate america and everything it has stood for many decades. I don't hate capitalism I simply think the government has failed miserably in regulation. They create more problems then they solve.

Your world view is seriously messed up, you must live in an area of the country that's still doing well. My America is nothing like you describe. I have 5 college degrees, 2 bachelors and 3 associates. All they've done is qualify me to not work at places like McDonalds or Starbucks. They haven't opened any doors for me, only closed doors to entry level jobs.

Originally posted by seabag
Minimum wage is for beginners. Anybody with a good work ethic and common sense can work their way up in no time. If you’re a job-hopper or dumber than a box of rocks then I don’t know what to tell you…I guess you’re doomed to scrape by on minimum wage.

I work 60 hours a week, for under $5/hour. On the books I can only list 29 hours however it's a job where the employer basically gives x hours of work and says do it or you're fired, you're only getting paid for so many hours. That's the way jobs work. I would be absolutely thrilled if my position came to minimum wage, infact my wage is going down soon as my employer is doing cutbacks. We each need to resubmit what we're willing to work for, and anyone who bids too high is being fired as an unaffordable employee. That is the way things now work in America. The idea of starting out at minimum wage and getting promotions/raises if you stick with the job is dead. I have friends that have been working the same job for 6 years now, their only raise has been an increase in the minimum wage. Employers don't act the way you claim.

Many of those people chose not to get insurance and simply don’t pay their hospital bills when they get treatment! That’s one reason prices are so damn high! Responsible people pay 2-3 times as much because 100,000,000 make excuses about why they can’t pay.

My mom is on medicaid but they don't cover everything, she had the choice, she could either pay her copay for medication or stop buying groceries. Instead I now buy her groceries. People really can't afford health care, that's an example of someone that can't afford what gets through the safety net. When I'm working at the college I see advertisements all over the place, $500/month, $35,000 in total coverage for health insurance. People can't afford that, especially students. Health insurance is expensive for one reason, and one reason only. There's 65 different profit layers tacked onto any given treatment. Remove some of those and it gets cheaper. Obamacare doesn't remove those layers, instead it makes things worse.

People can't pay without good jobs. Good jobs no longer exist. If you do get one, it's because you won the job lottery.

Oh really? It’s a conservative problem? Who has been running the country for the last 5 years - Conservatives?

The minority party still has quite a bit of power. Our entire system is based on that premise to prevent the mob rule that typically comes about from democracy. Furthermore, it's usually the minority party that attempts to screw things up as much as humanly possible in order to make the majority look bad. Remember congress's attempts to defend the wars under Bush? Republicans have pulled the same types of things with health care to make it as dysfunctional as possible. That's how politics work.

We already had socialized medicine - Medicare and Medicaid.
Under those the only people who couldn't see a doctor were the working poor.
Now they've just included the entire middle class.
This is going to backfire because people CANNOT afford to pay the premiums OR the penalties.
But they knew that all along, didn't they?
So what was the true intent of this monstrosity?

Originally posted by Aazadan
Your world view is seriously messed up, you must live in an area of the country that's still doing well. My America is nothing like you describe. I have 5 college degrees, 2 bachelors and 3 associates. All they've done is qualify me to not work at places like McDonalds or Starbucks. They haven't opened any doors for me, only closed doors to entry level jobs.

Yep you are OVER-qualified! Who the heck would ever imagine such a thing exists?

Imagine going to McDonalds with your master's degree and asking to flip burgers. "Sorry I don't think you got the backbone for that kinda work. You guys whine too much"

Its almost as funny as the border agents suing DHS for not being able to do their job, instead of the usual "less work and more pay".

The world is going mad I tell yah.

Originally posted by cholo
I bet Obama creamed the economy back in sept 08! It was his fault that the entire economy dropped into historic free fall!

Must have been by design, so you guys can complain and make up fantasy for eight years!

In fairness, Obama was opposed to any sort of regulation over the Federal Mortgage Companies (Fannie/Freddie MAC) to rein in the Bush identified crisis of subprime mortage lending, so yeah... his hands aren't clean. he also supported TARP and his policies coming out of the depression have consistantly been to throw good money after bad, passing the bill off to future generations.

I'll be real honest with you, the fantasy here is the idea that anything this president has done has been above average, at best. I might be compelled to actually search for some gemstones hidden in the mountains of turds which have been his first 4 1/2 years... but I find the idea that we, as Americans, should try to seek out something of value within the man's *ahem* "character" to be hypocritical and preposterous considering the complete lack of responsibility he, himself, has shown since taking office. EVERYTHING has been someone else's fault. From his own lips the man has never once said "Yep, you know what, I screwed up there." Every damn time it has been some variant of "My predecessor left me this problem..." "I inherited this problem..." "That wasn't me..." "so and so was the person responsible for that..." etc, etc, etc. But by God is he ever Speedy Gonzalez getting to the award podium to take credit for any remotely positive news. It is very off-putting. I work in the real world and in that real world Barack Obama would have been long ago fired for dereliction of responsibility. Simply put, nobody wants to work alongside a whiney, pompous, insufferable jackass who refuses to show any degree of self responsibility for his own job.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Aazadan
Your world view is seriously messed up, you must live in an area of the country that's still doing well. My America is nothing like you describe. I have 5 college degrees, 2 bachelors and 3 associates. All they've done is qualify me to not work at places like McDonalds or Starbucks. They haven't opened any doors for me, only closed doors to entry level jobs.

Yep you are OVER-qualified! Who the heck would ever imagine such a thing exists?

Imagine going to McDonalds with your master's degree and asking to flip burgers. "Sorry I don't think you got the backbone for that kinda work. You guys whine too much"

Its almost as funny as the boder security guys suing DHS for not being able to do their jobs, instead of for better pay and less work hours.

The world is going mad I tell yah.

I don't care if I'm overqualified, that doesn't mean I'm unable to do the work. I want to work. I want a job that pays minimum wage or better, and I want to work a mere 40 hours per week. I don't even care if it's a good job anymore. That's the entire reason I went to school. Those jobs don't exist. America figured out that it could outsource them, and leave fewer lower paid jobs behind. I make less than the average wage in the developed portions of China, I'm not unskilled and I'm not lazy. That's simply the way the country has gone, and many people have cheered it as it's brought higher profits to the corporations.

reply to post by Aazadan


It sounds to me like you live in the wrong state, friend. If things are as you describe, and have been that way for years, then you should have moved a long time ago. This is what I mean about there being plenty of options. If you're unwilling to go where the jobs are then stop complaining and live with it. BTW, your boss is breaking the law.

There are PLENTY of good jobs in Texas where I live. Anyone who wants a job can find one. I have a hard time finding employees when I need them because most people who want to work full time are employed.

Time to stop making excuses and move to a state that's not dysfunctional!

Originally posted by Starchildren
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

Sorry you are having it rough. I do understand, as we are going through a situation where I'm too sick to work and my husband is the only one working. The working poor are being punished. A couple of months back they started taking out another $58 in taxes on my husband's check. That $58 was budgeted out as our gas money for every two weeks. Before this happened, my husband's hours was cut to part time. A double whammy. When my husband gets off work at 2:30 pm, he spends the rest of the afternoon job hunting, in the hopes of finding something full time. There is nothing full time around here that is open, and the jobs that do offer full time are full up and no one is hiring. We're facing some serious problems, yet I'm supposed to pay out of pocket for my insurance, or get fined. Oh and I also found out that they can garnish wages for it too.

Does everyone not understand yet how this is going to work? I don't believe so. I wonder when it will hit the masses.

That tax increase is the return of a tax that the Obama administration lowered several years ago. It was temporary it was meant to have a time limit. It was done to help the economy. Did you complain as much when you tax went down -- did you even notice??

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
We already had socialized medicine - Medicare and Medicaid.
Under those the only people who couldn't see a doctor were the working poor.
Now they've just included the entire middle class.
This is going to backfire because people CANNOT afford to pay the premiums OR the penalties.
But they knew that all along, didn't they?
So what was the true intent of this monstrosity?

You seem to conveniently overlooking the subsidies for the working poor. The working poor didn't have a shot at all at having healthcare prior to the affordable care act