This is why we "debunk" chemtrails.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by extraterrestrialentity

 

In relation to this point;

And chemtrails do not have to come from airliners, it can come from military planes.

Are you aware of any evidence that such trails have been deposited by military aircraft? Or even any aircraft at all?

Evidence? Operation LAC.

reply to post by extraterrestrialentity
[more

And how can you say that chemtrails do not exist without any proof? You can be certain that they do not exist, but that does not mean they do not.

The same way I can say purple flying fairies do not exist. I have no proof that they don't exist, true. But I am certain that they do not.
When you know the science behind the whole "chemtrail" theory, you will understand that there is as much evidence that purple flying fairies do exist as there is that "chemtrails" do.
The proof of absence of proof is enough.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by extraterrestrialentity

 

We would only say that if it IS faked AND can be shown to be so. This is the point. As you say, you are choosing to believe in chemtrails.

I asked you a question pertinent to that belief choice in a previous post, but you seem to have skipped that. Is that symptomatic of you having made a choice without reason perhaps?

I have seen several of these reports and I refer to you to my earlier post where I mentioned misrepresentation. Is yours then not one of these reports that mention finding aluminium and barium in samples as if it is not natural to do so?


Did you know Doctor Who is a dramatisation of a true story and Gallifrey is a real place? Prove it isn't. Do you see how silly that sounds?

edit on 5-5-2013 by waynos because: (no reason given)

Please show me the post I skipped.

And do not bring fictional characters into this discussion. The military did actually spray chemicals. Operation LAC was an operation by the military to spray chemicals over the US. That is not fiction, it is fact.

Originally posted by stars15k

reply to post by extraterrestrialentity
[more

And how can you say that chemtrails do not exist without any proof? You can be certain that they do not exist, but that does not mean they do not.

The same way I can say purple flying fairies do not exist. I have no proof that they don't exist, true. But I am certain that they do not.
When you know the science behind the whole "chemtrail" theory, you will understand that there is as much evidence that purple flying fairies do exist as there is that "chemtrails" do.
The proof of absence of proof is enough.

Operation LAC. That's all you need to know.

Now, do purple flying fairies exist? I'm certain not. Did the military have an operation of spraying chemicals of the US? Yes.

That is the difference between your statement and mine. I actually have factual evidence that the government is spraying chemicals over the US. You do not have factual evidence that there are purple flying fairies.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


You want evidence? Alright then, here you go:

rense.com...

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity

Operation LAC. That's all you need to know.

Operation LAC and the similar Operatino Dew took place in eth 1950's and 1960's

They are not evidence that chemtrails exist now in any shape or form.

You might as well say that the atom bombing of Hiroshima means that the US is still atom bombing Japan

Now, do purple flying fairies exist? I'm certain not. Did the military have an operation of spraying chemicals of the US? Yes.

That is the difference between your statement and mine. I actually have factual evidence that the government is spraying chemicals over the US. You do not have factual evidence that there are purple flying fairies.

No - you have shown evidence that the government DID spary chemicals 40-50 years ago.

That is not secert any more, is not in doubt, and is NOT evidence that the Government IS spraying chemicals.

Sorry about that.

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

You want evidence? Alright then, here you go:

rense.com...

That is the one I referred to already, and it is rubbish for the reasons I provided.

I was hoping you might have some tests that had been done properly.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

One issue I have had with similar tests is that, regardless of the quantity of materials found, the chemmies seem to proclaim with confidence that this material has been deposited from an aircraft. How can they know this is the origin of what they have found?

Yes that is a basic link that needs to be drawn too - but if they cannot even get the test methodology and measurement correct then it is not one that needs to be addressed.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Comparing Hiroshima to chemtrails is inane. If the government would keep bombing Hiroshima, there would be a massive world war, and the government would essentially kill itself.

However, continuing to spray chemtrails creates no world war, and the government stays.

Please do not write such silly things, you lose credibility.

reply to post by extraterrestrialentity


Ah, Operation LAC. Scary sounding isn't it.
You have come to the right person for this.
I live in Fort Wayne, Indiana, one of the cities identified as being used for this. And one of the areas identified in FW was the area that included the street I lived on (in three houses) and the school I went to K thru 6. It was a few years before I lived there, but still something I researched.
When the story of this came out, it made big news. What was sprayed on us? Why?
The stuff they used, zinc cadmium sulfide, was dumped during the cold war to test the dispersal of such things as biological or chemical weaponry. This was considered important (I think it was important, too) because there are biological and chemical weapons. The amount of ZnCdS used was enough to be detectable, but not enough to be toxic. The concentration is not known to me; the toxicity of ZnCdS was questioned and investigated. Here's an article about that. Secret Army Tests
And here is the most important part of the article:

In most of the Army tests, people were exposed to such small amounts of the compound that they would have been likely to get higher doses of cadmium from environmental and industrial sources, the report said.

This sound very familiar if you have read as many "chemtrail" reports of barium as I have.
As in all tests of this type, the amount used would create a concentration only enough to be detectable with testing. That is all they wanted, to see how and if the chemical would spread from different dispersal types. It wasn't all planes.
Each city, county, and state, as well as schools, military, and industry sample and test the air and water quality several times every single day. If there was something similar happening today, it would be noticed. This daily testing requires thousands of people. To think that something was being hidden from the public and not one of these people has come forward...? In the internet age, that would be impossible.
So unless you think that the government has a secret program spraying us with visible plumes of an undetectable, non-toxic chemical for no apparent reason, there is no cause to think that "chemtrails" exist.

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

You want evidence? Alright then, here you go:

rense.com...

Oh, dear God.
Referencing Rense?
He's one of the biggest shills around. Don't think so? Count how many ads are on his "home" page.
Totally not credible. Mostly just stupid.
Feeding crap to the gullible, and making money doing it.

reply to post by extraterrestrialentity


Its on the previous page, about a third of the way down and is quite a long one where I spelled out my case for disbelieving. What is your vire about how chemtrail theory has evolved over these years?

Basically, in your other replies, you seem to be saying that you believe in chemtrails because you know that in the past stuff came out of planes. That's not very bright is it.

Study and understanding is all it takes.

That is the difference between your statement and mine. I actually have factual evidence that the government is spraying chemicals over the US. You do not have factual evidence that there are purple flying fairies.

reply to post by extraterrestrialentity

No, you provided evidence that the government DID spray chemicals over the US.
You did not supply factual evidence that there are chemicals are being sprayed now.
Stumbling block with believers.
If there was spraying now, there would be evidence. There is no credible evidence.

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity


Please do not write such silly things, you lose credibility.

I wouldn't choose that path if I was you, people in glass houses etc etc

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Comparing Hiroshima to chemtrails is inane. If the government would keep bombing Hiroshima, there would be a massive world war, and the government would essentially kill itself.

I wasn't comparing Hiroshima to chemtrails.

I was pointing out the fallacy of saying that it is happening now because it happened before.

However, continuing to spray chemtrails creates no world war, and the government stays.

Which is still not evidence that it is actually happening now.

Please do not write such silly things, you lose credibility.

You are the one who said that LAC is evidence that chetmrails are being sprayed now - all I did was point out that this is a false conclusions to draw by way of an analogy - suer it was an extreme one, but the logic is the same as yours - which is to day the logic is false

And since you agree that no-one is atom bombing Japan at the moment it seems that you are aware that it is afalse logic - so why persist with it??

Originally posted by stars15k

That is the difference between your statement and mine. I actually have factual evidence that the government is spraying chemicals over the US. You do not have factual evidence that there are purple flying fairies.

reply to post by extraterrestrialentity

 

No, you provided evidence that the government DID spray chemicals over the US.
You did not supply factual evidence that there are chemicals are being sprayed now.
Stumbling block with believers.
If there was spraying now, there would be evidence. There is no credible evidence.

In a murder case, if there was a convicted murderer near the scene of the crime, the convict will become an important suspect, and could possibly go to prison simply due to the circumstances.

The fact that the government did spray chemicals, and there have been sightings of unusual "contrails", one could say that the chemtrail case is analogous to the aforementioned example. Or, to put it simply, the government could still be the one spraying chemicals.

Even though unusual contrails can be explained, that does not mean the government is not still spraying. If a person was found near a murder scene, and that person has killed before, the situation can be explained as the convicted murderer simply being at the wrong place, and at the wrong time.

But let's just see if that "explanation" will hold up in the court of law.

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
The fact that the government did spray chemicals, and there have been sightings of unusual "contrails", one could say that the chemtrail case is analogous to the aforementioned example. Or, to put it simply, the government could still be the one spraying chemicals.

sure it "could" be.

Even though unusual contrails can be explained, that does not mean the government is not still spraying. If a person was found near a murder scene, and that person has killed before, the situation can be explained as the convicted murderer simply being at the wrong place, and at the wrong time.

But let's just see if that "explanation" will hold up in the court of law.

that would entirely depend on what the evidence is.

In the case of contrails there is actually nothing "unusual" about the contrails at all.

People are often not familiar with how contrails behave and often have not paid much attention to contails in the past, so the behaviour is often new to them.

But being new to one person (or even 100 people) does not make explainable behaviour any less explainable.

There is still nothing at all about the chemtrail theory that is anything other than how contrails are known to behave.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I'm ending this discussion, or else it will go on for days and days, and I don't have that kind of time.

How about we both agree that it is possible that the government is spraying chemtrails. Sound good?

reply to post by extraterrestrialentity


I think you are massively missing the govt "could" spray us at any time, but it's very unlikely that they "are" spraying us daily. And using "suspect looking contrails" as proof is not going to cut it, as they can be explained by science. If they "are " spraying us now, bring "what" and "when" and we can discuss it. As of now, there is no murder, there is no body, and there is no crime scene. You are a cop looking for a crime. Go have a doughnut.

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I'm ending this discussion, or else it will go on for days and days, and I don't have that kind of time.

How about we both agree that it is possible that the government is spraying chemtrails. Sound good?

so you are not ending this discussion at all??

Sure - I already agreed that he Govt (or anyone else) could be spaying "something".

How about we also agree that there's also no actual evidence that they are?