Israel strikes Arms Depot near Damascus

reply to post by Hijinx


I haven't found anything showing them having AWACS, but there isn't a lot of definitive information about their inventory either. They do fly Il-76 aircraft, which have been used for the AWACS mission, as well as others. It's possible, but I think this might have been a Combat Air Patrol of fighters, possibly MiG-29s. They might have been watching for the IDF to return.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by Im2keul


Iran has long threatened to destroy Israel, and Hezbollah is part of its arsenal. Israel choking off the supply of weapons to Hezbollah limits Iran’s future threat against Israel.

So, Israel committing an Act of War Against Syria, is OK, because Iran MIGHT commit an Act Against Israel.

Your Logic is Funny.

That's how they think man. I know it sounds crazy, but it's kind of like a false flag operation. Israel is the bully who is instigating, and Iran and the rest are the nerds who are going to bring a gun to school.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Forgive me, but wouldn't that be some what foolish for them? They are flying around at cloud level, leaving both a visual trail, as well as a larger heat signature, open to enemy radar they would be dead before they could get a visual on an Israeli craft.

I agree, it is more than likely a Syrian Patrol, but what numbers does an Israeli Strike pack fly in? 3 mig 29's at cloud level, against the potential of fast low flying Israeli fighters. My money would be on Israel. They already defeated Syrian Radar once, and I know height is typically thought of as an advantage when dog fighting, but an engagement doesn't usually occur in natural sight range. Israel could fly in low, "under radar", lock and launch, and be gone taking out the patrol. They could continue doing this to units in the air, until the Syrian air-force is significantly weakened before a front on aerial confrontation.

I'm not a pilot, but the little I do understand leads me to believe this is poor planning by Syria and it's 29's. If their flying the latter or a combination of the two, it could be beneficial for Syria.

Again, you always come off pretty well versed in aircraft and their capabilities, but I'm not sure what Israel is flying.

reply to post by Zaphod58


You can hear the speaker say "medina Douma"....

If you come in low level, through the valleys, you burn more fuel.

Ingress low, egress high and light the sky. They already know your there, might as well burn what you got at altitude and haul ass to the ARIP.

I'm guessing the IAF has jammers good enough to counter medium/high range threats.

Can't jam manpads, that I know of.

The Syrians probably didn't, wouldn't or couldn't respond. Same as 2007.

reply to post by OperationLovestrike


I hate to say it, but they aren't much different than a lot of us in the west. We tend to use the struggle of the people we attack as our reason to go in as of late, but we have been guilty of preemptive strikes ourselves. All with plenty of Propaganda... I mean evidence, that an attack or threat against us is imminent.

reply to post by ErEhWoN


From the sounds of it, it was a clean in and out attack. IAF, came in " Under Radar. " Hit there targets and were gone before Syria knew what happened. Fuel, likely wasn't of much concern with the element of surprise and single target. Depending on the ordinance used, they may not have needed eyes on the target either.

reply to post by Hijinx

I'm not a pilot, but the little I do understand leads me to believe this is poor planning by Syria and it's 29's. If their flying the latter or a combination of the two, it could be beneficial for Syria.

I don't think the Syrians would risk their '29's. More likely they would fly them to Iran, to escape destruction.

Maybe send a token -21 or -23, got more of those.

reply to post by Hijinx


You're using them in a sort of AWACS role. It works better with more spacing, and four aircraft, but they orbit at fairly high altitude, to get a longer range on their radar, and a better "look down" picture. But circling with four aircraft, you always have one compass direction covered by a radar. It's a poor mans AWACS if you don't have one. If you aren't careful, you're going to lose the aircraft involved, but it MIGHT give you enough warning to get more aircraft off the ground and into a defensive posture in the air. It's worth the risk if those are MiG-29s, because it's supposed to have a pretty good radar in it.

The IDF flies US aircraft. They have F-16s and F-15s, both the C and E models for their strike aircraft.

reply to post by Hijinx


Fighters use more fuel when flying low and 'dirty', with bombs/fuel tanks under their wings. They would probably be going at a decent rate of speed too.

Fuel is ALWAYS a concern when flying over Indian country.

reply to post by ErEhWoN


The -21, unless it's the MiG-21PF or later doesn't have a radar in it. They could be -23s, but the -29 has a much better radar in it, so you're going to get a much better picture from that, than from a -23 radar.

As for the low/high ingress/egress, even if that was the case here, you don't loiter over your target area, especially once they know you're there. Unless you're absolutely 100% certain you've destroyed every single weapons system that can hurt you, the last thing you do is linger over bad guy land.

reply to post by ErEhWoN


Ha ha, yes but Israel already did this. So it can be done, the smouldering wreckage is a good sign of that. They may not have sufficient fuel to duke it out for a significant amount of time, but they've proved their capability. Not arguing, sorry.

Israel has the military hardware supplied by the United States to crush Syria and send them into the stone age if that is what they aim to do. There is no question as to who the dominant military force both in training and arms go.

The question that needs to pondered is this....... Iran has just said in no uncertain terms that an attack on Syria is an attack on Iran. If this is the case, has Israel just attacked Iran? What will happen should Iran come into direct military conflict with Israel?

I think we all know what the answer is and quite frankly, it's scary. I think we should all say a prayer that this situation is somehow resolved quickly before it boils over or I think it will certainly cost tens of thousands of lives over the coming months.

reply to post by Helious


Didn't Russia, basically say the same thing months back. That if any western forces got involved in Syria, Russia would as well. That's the part that freaks me out. I'm absolutely concerned about Iran, and I absolutely think they are GROSSLY Underestimated, but Russia made a similar statement a while back if I'm not mistaken. This could get Really freaking ugly, if they were serious and if they deem the recent Israeli actions cause for retaliation.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Last I read, they only have 14 of the -29's with the advanced radar. They are probably very well guarded. And hidden.

I don't think they would risk them in an IAF raid.

Honestly, I think they probably have flightplans to Tehran already printed up!

From the video, it looks like three 'unidentified' planes made one orbit each, then egress at high/medium altitude. Impossible to judge the speed.

F-15's on HighCAP for F-16 strike package? Maybe doing a lil BDA? or maybe even jammers. I don't think the Syrians had any aircraft up at the time. They would have been shot down.

And judging from past occurrences, I don't think the IAF harbors any fear of Syrian air defences.

What will be interesting is the response (or lack thereof) form the Syrian or Iranian military.

reply to post by Hijinx


No arguments mate :-)

What we having here is a real live discussion! All grown up and stuff.

Some interesting times ahead I think we can both agree on that!

If this turns out to be true that is!

reply to post by ErEhWoN


If the Iranian's respond, they have the numbers and tech to pose a serious threat to Israel, it's a matter of do they want to engage in open war. It's quite obvious Israel wants just this, but with out US aid, Iran is in a serious position to for lack of better words FSU in Israel.

reply to post by ErEhWoN


Without knowing when exactly this video was shot in relation to the raid, it's impossible to tell. But even a CAP tries to not orbit, and stay below the contrail level. If this was the IAF, even if they don't fear Syrian defenses, I don't see them going into an orbit where they're leaving a contrail behind. They're better than that. Arrogant as hell (which they've pretty much earned the right to be), but not stupid. And that's just stupid.

reply to post by ErEhWoN


I agree, and thank you. Some times I get taken wrong, or come off the wrong way(not sure which) and people assume I'm just arguing. As I've said before, I'm not that well versed in Aircraft, their capabilities and such. Both Israel, and Syria claim a strike took place, it's merely a difference in the supposed targets. Either way, it's a very bold move by Israel, and I admit I've been glued to the TV, and scouring the net to hear what other nations have to say about the matter. This could very well be that straw that breaks the camels back for the middle east.

Then again, we say that every time something happens "over there."

Originally posted by Helious
Israel has the military hardware supplied by the United States to crush Syria and send them into the stone age if that is what they aim to do. There is no question as to who the dominant military force both in training and arms go.

The way Syria is right now, Israel will have no problem with them.. As for the hardware, yes they have some nice weapons but the Chemical threat is just a potent.

The question that needs to pondered is this....... Iran has just said in no uncertain terms that an attack on Syria is an attack on Iran. If this is the case, has Israel just attacked Iran? What will happen should Iran come into direct military conflict with Israel?

I think we all know what the answer is and quite frankly, it's scary. I think we should all say a prayer that this situation is somehow resolved quickly before it boils over or I think it will certainly cost tens of thousands of lives over the coming months.

Iran is a different story. They have enough weaponry even though it isn't as advanced to deal Israel a massive hit.

reply to post by Hijinx

This could very well be that straw that breaks the camels back for the middle east. Then again, we say that every time something happens "over there."

LOL, Ain't that the truth!

Guilty of that myself, and more than once!