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So you don't think Allah is a deceiver yet you think he out-deceived people? How does that work?
And no, I don't think it's right to kill innocent people, though I'm sure your god does since he went around killing all the first-borns in Egypt that one time. Oh, and the flood, and Sodom and Gomorrah.
So Allah out-deceives people but he doesn't deceive people... gotcha.
If those people were in the hands of god then why destroy them? If they were in the hands of god then why didn't he just make the bad guys fall over dead instead raining fire and brimstone on EVERYONE? Doesn't seem like a very compassionate thing for a compassionate god to do, does it?
It seems like to me that you're ignoring the word of Allah if you think he doesn't deceive.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined
But god knows everything, so how could he not have known why we did certain things or what human death was like?
Also, if god wanted to experience a human death (which he already knew about anyways) then why did he raise himself up? It's not a sacrifice if the person doesn't end up dying in the end.
So do you know they will be brought back or do you just assume, therefor "know" in your own mind? It seems like a waste of time and energy for god to first create these babies then turn around and kill them for no apparent reason.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined
A hypocrite to what? What did he think we thought he was being hypocritical about? Why would he care anyways?
So Jesus made himself rise from the dead, back into the same body, in order to show us that that's what's going to happen to us? That we would rise from the dead into the same body? But I thought we received new bodies once we are resurrected.
ETA: As for your second point, Jesus didn't rise from the dead in an incorruptible body, he rose in the same body that he died in, hand wounds and all.
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Siberbat
Well, I know God has His reasons to do whatever He does.
There was no need to explain the context of those verses. This thread was specifically aimed at Christians calling Allah "the deceiver".... when the bible itself shows that God has deceived people. Clearly such Christians don't seem to know their own bibles too well.
So....people living in glass houses should know what not to do.
"and [they] deceived and Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers"
Sura 3:54
Sura 3:54 Arabic: Wa Makaru wa makara Allah wa Allah Amkaru al Makireen.
Likewise the phrase of Allah "being the best deceiver". kheir ol makarein, is also used of Allah in Suras 8:30 and 10:21. Sura 10:21 says Allah is the fastest in planning/deceit
Other references to the plotting/deceit/scheming of Allah are Sura 7:99; 27:50; 13:42; 14:46; 43:79; 86:15f.; 7:100; 4:142
Yet English translations of the Qur’an typically have a softer phrase, as Appendix I shows. So in these verses, specifically how should this word be more accurately translated, and generally, what is the role of deception in Islam?
Etymology of the Word Makara
Sura 3:54 says that Allah makara. The Arabic word makara means to deceive, scheme, or plan. The Arabic Bible in Genesis 3:1 uses the same word for Satan. However, the Vand Dyck and Jerusalem Bibles use the root word hayala.
This word "schemer" (maakir) is a very strong word which Wehr and Abdel-Nour define as "sly, cunning, wily". The Arabic-Arabic unjid defines it with khuda`a which means exactly the same thing (by Bill Campbell in his book The Qur'an and the Bible in the Light of History and Science p.217-218).
Interpretation of Sura 3:54
The person who is a makir (same form as the word kafir) speaking of the attribute of a person is one who would outwit someone else to cause them harm. It speaks of one who would reveal the opposite of what he plans to do. The reality is that he is scheming evil for that person. So yes there is the sense of planning and scheming but mostly it means to trick, outwit and deceive for the purpose of overpowering and conquering the other. A makir is one who devises a secret scheme against someone else. Synonyms would be cheating, defrauding, double-crossing, deceiving, tricking, in all cases makara has the sense of defeating the one you have tricked.
The Context of Sura 3:54
The context of this story is very important. Sura 3 is regarded to be the great dialogue of Muhammad with the Christians. Al-Tabari says here that the deceit of Allah applies to the time where the Jews wanted to kill Isa the son of Mary. In order not to be killed Allah put the appearance of Jesus’ face on someone else, who was crucified instead of Jesus. This is how Allah had everybody, even Jesus get deceived.
Strikingly when it comes to the cross, the very central part of biblical teaching, Allah is called khayr ulmakirin the most deceitful. Some one wants to conceal that he lost the battle on the cross! Here the true nature of Allah is revealed!
Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."(Matthew 7:6)