Which religion is the right religion?

reply to post by backcase

What do you believe?

~A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.~
-Albert Einstein-

I believe in that. I believe that doesn't require religious dogma to achieve. I believe if there is a God, that God would wish nothing more than for us to experience life, be happy, and do ones best to alleviate suffering in the world and increase global happiness.

Different religions speak to people differently. A good friend never could relate to Christianity but Islam works very well for him. In fact, it probably saved him from a career in crime.

I've attended a First Nation sweat and Jesus has appeared there along with the other Grandfathers and Grandmothers (angels).

All religions have far more in common than they are different. They are a moral code and belief system; they are all paths to the Sacred...every path just happens to be a little different.

The one that doesn't cause war, the one that doesn't maim children , the one that doesn't hold woman to a status of cattle, one that doesn't separate males from females, one that truly does love one another male and female, one that does not have an organization that uses its influence to obtain money , power, status,and land, one that doesn't use fantasy to explain reality, one that want to co exist with science, one that allows anyone to partner with the love of life, one that doesn't use children as slaves or cattle,


find the one that has all of this THAT'S THE ONE

unfortunately, they all have drawbacks and which is why they are all lies religion was created to control the masses. No one is scared of jail/king/government... But GOD, EVERYONE IS SCARED

at least that's what they were hoping for heh.

reply to post by Mads1987

Believe me I know this sounds a little hard to believe. But I know God because I know for fact that every word of the bible is the truth. I know this because I did, very blindly, do everything Christ told me to do. I take care of a widow and an Orphan. I gave everything I owned away - a whole different thread, I served my kids like they were royalty. Most importantly I forgave and I turned the other cheek, to any argument. You see I did what Christ, the love inside of me, was telling me to do.

Let me use the term addiction in reference to sin. We give our heart to whatever we are addicted to. This is why Jesus claimed the Pharisees had a different father. Because you have given your heart over to a lie. The lie is that the addiction cannot be broken. For all things are possible by God. The best way to start is to listen to his son. Love everyone just as he loves everyone.

Understand my brothers, this was not revealed to me all at once. But rather through a series of tests. I submitted because my way wasn't working and there had to be something better. Do what he did; it’s a simple concept but it's really all we need to do. Remember he said you can do even greater things than these. Just love, if you're searching for love and you can't seem to find it, it's in you. If you're dense like I was just do what Jesus said. If you can't give that a try than nothing I could say would help you.

The bible describes the events of being born again. Each man will testify to you that they have been born again. Only the man that loves you is born again. I am born again and since this concept fails to exist anywhere but the bible than Jesus must be who he claims. I speak to you not of anything that I was capable of learning but rather he chose me to be a witness to you. Love is the way, love is the truth, and love is the life. Love is the only way to live, anything against love is opposed to the truth.

Peace and love to everyone who reads this. This is not about religion; I do not want you to follow me. I want you to love, follow love, and become addicted to love like I am.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

This is not about religion

But it is when you mention biblical dogma, and claim it truth.

But I know God because I know for fact that every word of the bible is the truth.

Remember he said you can do even greater things than these. Just love, if you're searching for love and you can't seem to find it, it's in you. If you're dense like I was just do what Jesus said. If you can't give that a try than nothing I could say would help you.

Why not follow what Jesus said and drop the parts of the Bible that don't concern Jesus. Also if following Jesus is your aim, did you seek out the texts containing the words of Jesus that were excluded from the Bible? Honestly curious.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Maybe I am not as educated as I think I am. I don't really know how anyone with everything that I believe would be considered intelligent by the standards of this world. I believe in a young earth and creation. I believe in Adam and Eve, the flood, Moses. I believe it all. I listened to the entire bible on CD and after the first time listening to it, without many preconceived notions, I heard the greatest love story ever told.

Since that day I have listened to the New Testament over and over and over. The more I listen and the more I do what it says the more I learn what it says. The bible, especially the New Testament is written in a type of code. There are teaching of the spirit mixed with principles of the world. To the worldly man this becomes confusing so they accept the interpretation of the church. For the man who is looking to be spiritual will do what it says. Blindly, by faith doing the things that Christ taught reveal the rest of the message.

It seems to me that you are at the point of repentance, but maybe there seems to be something else your not seeing. Repentance is step one. I believe that if with all your heart you seek you will find him regardless of what you were taught to believe as a child.

I believe that when Jesus said "no man may come to the father except through him" what he is saying is this. Any man that comes to you in love comes to you in truth has been shown the father. This is where we separate Christ from Christianity. Christ is the one who judges a man's heart; he has one law, love everyone, if you obey that law he comes to you, and "enlightens you". Or more actually teaches you how to love.

Any man who has come to the father, love is the proof, has been shown the way by the son. Jesus Christ, "the savior of all men, especially believers"

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Mads1987

Believe me I know this sounds a little hard to believe. But I know God because I know for fact that every word of the bible is the truth. I know this because I did, very blindly, do everything Christ told me to do. I take care of a widow and an Orphan. I gave everything I owned away - a whole different thread, I served my kids like they were royalty. Most importantly I forgave and I turned the other cheek, to any argument. You see I did what Christ, the love inside of me, was telling me to do.

First you say you know it for a fact, then that you did follow it blindly. I didn't read anything in your response that would indicate that you don't still follow it blindly.

Yes I do find it very hard to believe that you would know such a thing for a fact. What gives you the impression that every word of the bible is 'the truth'?

Originally posted by Mads1987
Yes I do find it very hard to believe that you would know such a thing for a fact. What gives you the impression that every word of the bible is 'the truth'?

The narrator of the Bible CD he listened to was probably very animated...

Everyone knows the best way to experience fairy tales is to have them read out to you.

reply to post by backcase


"If the only word you can muster to describe him is God, then you have no choice but to bow before him humans. But if you refuse to acknowledge him as such, then fight for the existence he aims to control."

I think James Padgett has a lot of merit because he didn't want to make money off it. He claims that Jesus spoke to him. And it truly doesn't seem like the christian fundamentalist think as demonic.

It seems like Jesus is right there saying. "I am here Jesus". And proceeds to say, many things that go contrary with the bible. And being that the bible is incredibly old. I think I put more value in word's such as "I am here Jesus". That just sounds more current to me., I just can't trust a book that is over 2000 years old and has no appearance of being updated. Sure there are important statements in it. But trusting something that during that time period that were made known such as: the world being flat, diseases were curses from god when medically we know that is not the truth. And the list goes on.

I used to think the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham was true, then I read about Joseph Smith being arrested for telling people there was treasure in their backyards. Then looking into a stone in a hat and never finding anything. There are records of him actually being arrested. Church members are NEVER told this. Never told no artifacts or DNA in the book of mormon lands.

But it used to be earlier pioneer LDS leaders were not afraid to yell out: "we want to know the truth if the book of mormon is true or not". Now because there is so much information that the book is a fraud, they shy away from telling their members the truth.

Same as in the Book of Abraham, members were never told that the inscriptions that were with the mummies that Joseph Smith bought from Michael Chandler in the early 1800's were funerary documents and NOTHING to do with Abraham.


What I am saying by all this is, a true religion will makes sense if it is capturing a spiritual view of not only this life but the next one, that leads into eternity. If you find ANY religion as false then I think you owe it to yourself to discard it. I just don't want to be carrying around books that are found fraudulent and deceiving myself just to belong to an organization of leaders that wear suite and ties and say they are true.

You can't go by an organization appearances from the outside. You owe it to your self to get the "rest of the story". as Paul Harvey would say. But I know there are plenty of people because of family and investments in time and kinship, they opt to make it more of a club, than a belief.

I know when Tom Ferguson who was a stalwart in the LDS belief, he was waking up in the morning in Guatemala looking forward to finding book of mormon artifacts, but when he find none. He was pi$$ed bigtime. He was lead to believe his whole life that the book of mormon cities, battles were real. He was even given thousands of dollars to find them. But none were found and still isn't.

Tom Ferguson opted to stay, some people like Simon Southerton a dna expert who was a dedicated bishop in the LDS church left with his family when he found no dna in book of mormon lands. My hat comes off to a guy like Simon who left because he had a backbone and stood up for truth. If you don't stand up for truth, how can you grow as a human being?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by MamaJ

 

IF WE could ALL KNOW we are spirit beings living in a body,

No one is a spirit being living in a body. I suppose we could all PRETEND we are, but lying to ourselves can only get us so far. This mentality, that we are not responsible for anything that happens here, now, on this earth because we are nothing but wayward spirits locked in a physical flesh, is what is wrong with the world. Pretending we are spirits is the greatest injustice to all living things.

We can agree to disagree.

I never said we are not responsible for anything that happens here. You are assuming and then running with it instead of asking me questions of which you do not understand. A two way conversation is best when not accusing and pointing fingers nor having the expectation of being "right".

I stated we are loved no matter what.....

You ARE more than a body that goes back to the ground when your days are over here. If you have ever studied the brain/consciousness you would see the evidence of such.

Im not going to try and prove to your belief system that such an existence exists because your brain will kick it out if it does not coincide with your said belief. Its not up to me to prove anything to anyone. To give you another way to look at something... you can take it or leave it.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I agree that we are here to evolve spirituall and to love.

But Everyone follows a religion whether it be a church or of their own mind. I had another thread explaining that the true religion is that of virtue. People have such a bias against the word "religion" without taking in the spirit of anything.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Everyone has a belief.... but not everyone has a "religion". en.wikipedia.org...

I choose not to label my belief as it is private and not organized and it changes as I change.

reply to post by MamaJ


God does not change.

If we are children of Light, then why hide ourselves in darkness?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


And do you think that such is the thought of God?

Such an idea comes from the Gospel.

Originally posted by Mads1987

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Mads1987

Believe me I know this sounds a little hard to believe. But I know God because I know for fact that every word of the bible is the truth. I know this because I did, very blindly, do everything Christ told me to do. I take care of a widow and an Orphan. I gave everything I owned away - a whole different thread, I served my kids like they were royalty. Most importantly I forgave and I turned the other cheek, to any argument. You see I did what Christ, the love inside of me, was telling me to do.

First you say you know it for a fact, then that you did follow it blindly. I didn't read anything in your response that would indicate that you don't still follow it blindly.

Yes I do find it very hard to believe that you would know such a thing for a fact. What gives you the impression that every word of the bible is 'the truth'?

To me it can be clearly seen by what is created that there must be a creator. I simply cannot look at the complexity, organization, intelligence, and abundant life on this planet and not see the hand of the creator in all things. Then we look up and on a clear night and become utterly dumfounded by the enormity of creation. Where did it come from?

I have studied scientific claims for origins and evolution and they fall short of anything that resembles fact. I have studied scientific claims for the age of anything that is claimed to be over a few thousand years old, and the science has fallen short to prove their case again.

I studied several hundred supposed contradictions in the bible and found that they all come from taking the verse out of context or simply not understanding what is written. I have studied at least conceptually most major religions. I have spoke to many men of various religions regarding their religion.

What I have found is their seems to be one universal truth. Everyone that truly loves God loves his neighbors, all of them. Realize I am not saying every Christian, simply everyone who loves God with all their heart. Men like Gandhi just for reference. Although he did not believe in the bible he did agree with the message of love that was found within its pages.

But there is a transition from worldy understanding to spiritual understanding. Let me explain.

If God loves us why has he left us in so much chaos? Maybe he didn't. I believe that several key principles in the bible have been destroyed by the Catholic interpretation of the bible. There are 40,000 denominations; doesn't that in itself prove that the bible is at least confusing the people who claim they believe in it?

Is it possible that God gave us a book, that if we only do what it says than everything else will fall into place?

You see we continue to argue with even our family members. If we can't turn the other cheek for those that we love how can we ever learn to love our enemy? If husbands can't even serve their wife how will they serve those that they don't love? If we don't take care of the people close to us how can we care for the widows and orphans we don't know? We all want love to just magically swoop in and take over, and this is sort of what being born again is like. Jesus promises us that if we believe in him, and show our faith is real by doing what he asks he will come to us.

He came to me. In my head is a biblical interpretation that leaves the reader with no contradictions, a sound set of instructions and a promise of righteousness in this life and in the life to come. Notice that righteousness is available to all men in this life, because we all have one father and he loves us all.

Although I will bring this interpretation to the world, you do not need me to find it. Have enough faith to believe that Christ was teaching us exactly what to do to find him. Turn the other cheek next time, serve your wife. Just do it by faith.

You see no chaos, and its logic is both earthly and spiritual. Earthly in the since that if you do what you are told you will receive a reward. But the reward surpasses anything that can be considered earthly. Anyone who has received this reward will know for a fact that God is real. The complete changing of a man from physical to spiritual cannot be made without Christ. Any man who has moved from the physical to the spiritual has done so by the power of Christ, even if Christ choses to reveal himself under the name that he shares with his father. Love.

Have I at least proved that I am a follower of the bible and Christ and not a follower of Christianity the religion. In Christ there is no religion, there is the universal truth that there is only one God and we are all his creation. In the bible God refers to himself as the father of all men and Christ the savior of all men. Not some men but all men.

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Mads1987
I think you are the one that have been fed a bunch of lies. Haha.. so don't really think were gonna get far with this debate.

Somehow I really don't think God is into debates.

Neither am I.

Proof must be experienced PERSONALLY.

What you need to understand is that proof DOES exist.

I KNOW it and I have found it, it is a FACT.

But it's not something that can just be passed on in a few seconds.

“Nothing is as it appears to be.” ~ Robert Booth Nichols

Until you come face to face with REALITY and understand that everything you know is a lie, you will NEVER be entirely convinced of the truth.

Yes experiance is the key from my point of view. Breaking thru the conditioning created in you by other people. I love the things I have experianced and those are the fruits of god. Different religions views do not matter that much to me since when I read the bible it will tell me things that from my point of view are so clear but those interpetration of the texts do not mean the same to some people who are being told by priest what they mean.

I love the god that inspired the Christian Bible but that does not mean I like the view many Christians are creating of it.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by sacgamer25
It is only after you feel the love of God that you realize that what we call love falls woefully short of what Christ was teaching. Once you feel this love your heart is changed and set on a path to pursue that love. Love becomes the addiction and you become one with love.

In my opinion the most evil aspect of religion, in this case Christianity, is believing goodness, morality, and love, is their sole domain.

There are good, moral, loving people in this world that don't believe in your beliefs. Belief in your Biblical god and his dogma is not required. That's so blatantly obvious it baffles me how a book or two could prevent you from seeing it manifest in the World. That thinking is divisive and damaging to society. Mostly it just saddens me. It means you don't see much of the compassion happening in the world because it's not endowed with holy robes. I understand you view you're supporting a message of love, but in reality you're just dismissing much of it. Love was bestowed upon us, perhaps by God, but it's a birthright, and it doesn't rely on ANY particular book to give it life.

Sacgamer25. You might be encased in the light and feeling god around you but so do people who believe in Hinduism and Buddhism also. Being EN-LIGHT-ENED do not mean you are wise, just that you have been allowed to feel god/the oneness around you. That is what Hinduism and Buddhism teaches. Remove the ego and become one with everything around you in harmony.

God made no mistake. Just because you hear his calling in Jesus message do not mean others do not hear it in other messangers calling. God do not waste a soul that is ready to go home based on a name or technicality that humans have created. The belief that only Jesus name can bring you him is disconnecting you from understanding soulbrothers and soulsisters that Jesus would gladly open his arms to since he can see what is in their hearts. You knock on the door with you heart and what you are not by what views you have been shown in this lifetime. God has it's way to interact with you. With others it will interact in another way. The interaction chosen is the best suited one for both god and the person seeking god/love/higher ideals.

Lucid Lunacy. What can I say. I love your mind. Thank you for your post.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by sacgamer25
It is only after you feel the love of God that you realize that what we call love falls woefully short of what Christ was teaching. Once you feel this love your heart is changed and set on a path to pursue that love. Love becomes the addiction and you become one with love.

In my opinion the most evil aspect of religion, in this case Christianity, is believing goodness, morality, and love, is their sole domain.

There are good, moral, loving people in this world that don't believe in your beliefs. Belief in your Biblical god and his dogma is not required. That's so blatantly obvious it baffles me how a book or two could prevent you from seeing it manifest in the World. That thinking is divisive and damaging to society. Mostly it just saddens me. It means you don't see much of the compassion happening in the world because it's not endowed with holy robes. I understand you view you're supporting a message of love, but in reality you're just dismissing much of it. Love was bestowed upon us, perhaps by God, but it's a birthright, and it doesn't rely on ANY particular book to give it life.

Sacgamer25. You might be encased in the light and feeling god around you but so do people who believe in Hinduism and Buddhism also. Being EN-LIGHT-ENED do not mean you are wise, just that you have been allowed to feel god/the oneness around you. That is what Hinduism and Buddhism teaches. Remove the ego and become one with everything around you in harmony.

God made no mistake. Just because you hear his calling in Jesus message do not mean others do not hear it in other messangers calling. God do not waste a soul that is ready to go home based on a name or technicality that humans have created. The belief that only Jesus name can bring you him is disconnecting you from understanding soulbrothers and soulsisters that Jesus would gladly open his arms to since he can see what is in their hearts. You knock on the door with you heart and what you are not by what views you have been shown in this lifetime. God has it's way to interact with you. With others it will interact in another way. The interaction chosen is the best suited one for both god and the person seeking god/love/higher ideals.

Lucid Lunacy. What can I say. I love your mind. Thank you for your post.

edit on 16-1-2013 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking

Neither one of you are listening. He did not come to save the righteous, not those that threw God's natural law became one with that law, nor the self-righteous that cannot be saved, he came to save the sinner.

Do you get it? Jesus did not come to Abraham to make him righteous, Abraham was a man who searched for God and knew his love. This is why Abraham would do anything that God asks. He was a righteous man knowing that God can only act in love. So if you have come to righteousness by the path of your father Abraham than you are a true descendant. I came to the tree of life by the blood of Christ. I was a sinner and could not find love without Grace.

Do you understand that we are not in disagreement? Leave ALL of Christianity at the door when we talk. I am not from them, I am from the father. The same God you are from, I care not what name you give to him as long as you acknowledge by your words and your actions that at least one of his names is love. And not the kind of love of this world.

If you could? I only ask that you acknowledge to yourself that at least Christ has saved me, even though Christianity has saved no one.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I don't really know how anyone with everything that I believe would be considered intelligent by the standards of this world.

That's understandable. Faith has its place. I feel having belief something is true without strong evidence is usually dangerous. One should use faith wisely. Religion to me is very much not one of the times someone should take it on faith. Understand I mean religion as a whole, the entirety of its dogma, and I am not isolating say 'god belief' or 'belief in afterlife'.

This maxim comes to mind:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

There is no claim more extraordinary than the claim of knowing God's mind. For it represents the finality of everything. I strongly feel metaphysics should be explored with fervor, but intrinsic to exploration is the understanding it isn't all "figured out". Religion on the other hand discourages exploration, each one claiming absolute knowledge and do so without extraordinary evidence.

Believing God exists most likely will not harm others. Example: believing God disapproves of homosexuality most likely will harm others. It's one thing to claim God exists. It's an entirely different demon to claim God's name is Jeff, thinks heterosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, thinks it's permissible to have female slaves, thinks people should be killed if they work on Tuesdays, thinks girls should have labia removed at birth... Does this made up example seem drastic? It should. That's religion. There is so many instances of damaging beliefs within religious dogma and socio-political stances of today's Churches. I am not saying there isn't gems hidden within, many coming from Christ, but they should be extracted and the rest discarded. Discarded because they should be viewed as what they truly are...inventions of mankind and not representations of God's wishes. Surely it's possible Mankind is spiritual beings connected to some 'divine' force...but there is no reason to believe religious texts were authored by anything other than a thinking person with an able hand. Which is fine! There are some amazing human beings with amazingly inspirational things to say. But one should use a discerning mind, and a growing understanding of morality, when choosing their beliefs. Stagnation is death.

I listened to the entire bible on CD and after the first time listening to it, without many preconceived notions, I heard the greatest love story ever told.

This leaves me thunderstruck. Literally I cringed.

I have read the entire Bible. Honestly after all these years of reading snippets on ATS, I have probably read it a few times There are some horrific things said in the Christian Bible. I just can't imagine anyone hearing them and thinking love. These filled you with love?...

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." 1 Timothy 2:12

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." 1 Peter 2:18

"Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." Isaiah 13:16

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death . . . " Leviticus 20:9

Now before you counter with Old Testament, New Covenant. You said 1. you believed the whole Bible to be the word of God 2. it was the greatest love story every told. So my response to that is.. New Covenant doesn't negate that at least one point in time God allegedly wanted those horrible things. How does someone reconcile that with the idea of an all-loving God?? If you compare the moral inclinations of most people in today's world to the wrath of this god you will find humans to be morally superior. I refuse to believe God would be so simple and barbaric. It was horrific because it was authored by men of their times...men whom didn't have the developed sense of morality we have today. As for the greatest love story ever told. You would have to extract passages to make that case. Otherwise you're including mass murder and slavery in that love story. No thanks. I'll stick to IMDB's top romance movies for my audio books.

It seems to me that you are at the point of repentance, but maybe there seems to be something else your not seeing. Repentance is step one.

I repent. I repent to myself for myself. One of the greatest "sins" I have done is sabotage a relationship with someone I loved. That was bad. I paid the price and repented. It was something I had to do to heal. To be "saved". You see...this idea of repentance is also not something exclusive to the religious.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I believe that if with all your heart you seek you will find him regardless of what you were taught to believe as a child.

I was raised by non-religious scientists. They didn't ever discuss atheism or religion. I was surrounded by medicine. I was raised to believe in helping those less fortunate.

I am a 'seeker'. I just take a different approach, and hold a different standard of what gets accepted as truth.

Jesus Christ, "the savior of all men, especially believers"

Ahh but now a conundrum. If the saved are 'especially believers', how do you again reconcile this with an all-loving God? How many countless human souls over the course of Mankind were never believers due to never hearing the 'good news'?