Why Atheists are Unrelenting

Dear jiggerj,

Just remember Jigger, if there is a universal principal of friendship and fellowship, and love, then somewhere down the line, if there is a God, he might say "hello" but then it will be YOU who will say "I never knew you" to which he would say a second time, "hello" to which you'll say "I don't believe in you" - and then where will you be?


Therefore, in the name of friendship and as the hand of God sent here ("as my father hath sent me even so send I you") to extend that hand of friendship and say to you, even on behalf of the love of God in Jesus Christ the Lord - Hello!

I just hope you'll accept it, in this life, that introduction and free invitation, to prepare you for something even better in the life to come.

You are not alone.

Maybe one day Atheists will go on a grand crusade to purify the earth of all the delusional faith worshipers....

Its starting to feel like Atheism is the new priesthood.

reply to post by old_god


The body may be space dust but it’s what “quickens” it that makes the difference.

I, too, have walked away from modern Christian Protestantism because I see it as multiple financial business franchises rather than anything close to representing God on Earth. The dumbing down process I spoke of in my first post as perpetrated by the early Catholic Church includes an almost complete wiping away of any knowledge of who we are before, during and after inhabiting our bodies. In all my years of going to church I don’t recall hearing anything about the soul’s existence, let alone status, prior to inhabiting the body and the only thing you hear about afterward is basically clouds, harps and some kind of paradise. With all the other problems I have, spiritually, in life the last thing I want to add to them is blasphemy so I haven’t been back to church in many years. I have to admit, though, that I do miss the traditions and socializing. But, as Jesus said, ostensibly, “you can’t put your hand to the plow and look back”.

Recently I learned that Islam expects both Muhammad AND Jesus to return if not together at least in close proximity to each other in time. Is this something your spiritual leaders have taught? If so, I would like to know more about these verses.

I do my best to maintain an open mind, especially given the false information that has been disseminated over the past 2000 years by those whose main goal is acquisition and maintenance of power. I honestly believe the confounding confusion you experienced regarding the idea that Jesus was both God AND Man was due to an intentional misdirection on the part of the early church “fathers” with some misuderstanding of the Jewish philosophy thrown in. The current state of confusion, however, is something that I feel is part of the process Humanity is going through in order to take that next step in attaining higher spiritual status. We’re shrugging off the old skin of traditions that no longer fit the facts we know and are looking for the spirituality that does fit. I honestly believe we’re going to find some extra-terrestrials in that mix doing a face-palm and saying “it’s about damned time” you semi-hairless apes!”.

Regarding the relinquishment of ego – that’s the tough one isn’t it? I’ve heard that in so many words in my early Christian church years as well as during the time I attended Jewish Kabbalahism classes. I think any course of study that involves meditation goes through the steps required to relinquish the ego but, to date, I haven’t gone down that road. Currently I’m much more interested in finding out as much as I can about true Human history and what the true history of Jesus might be if it hasn’t been completely erased back in early times.

Since we’re having a discussion within a discussion I, once again, offer my condolences to the frustrated people that have given up hope of ever having a clear understanding of what God is and if He/It even exists. There are too many along that path with their hands out wanting to extract something of value from you in order to let you in on whatever intriguing bit of knowledge they may have. If I can remember it I fully intend to ask “Yeshua bar Yoseph” why he didn’t personally leave any writings for the rest of us to read and, if He did, are the ones that hid them from the rest of Humanity truly roasting right now?

I would rather have no idea than to live with the wrong idea.

reply to post by jiggerj


congrats, u get to do both.

Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Nah, we just see the grand scheme of things, instead of the pessimistic atheist outlook of modern day society.

And we also would rather go through the day thinking of the Holiness of God rather than have faith in a society detrimental to itself.

This is contradictory. I'm not completely without belife in a cosmic order of a sort. However im not a mythical or magical person. You say athiest's belife's are pessimistic yet you condemn society as detrimental to it's self. This is the problem with your belife's this is why i will disagree, you have deffered responsibility yet you spew your illogical moral judgement's on the people. Your book is black and white and it use's fear and guilt as control mechanism's, this book and it's relatives make a mockery of mankind and herd you as nothing more than a dollar figure. This book and it's relative's manipulate people by attacking the deepest mystery's of mankind Who am I? Why am I here? What is the meaning to all of this?. Those questions are deeply personal they are subjective and they motivate people's live's yet this book would tell us we are nothing but sinful creature's hopeles without salvation and damned to fire if we don't belive. What a pessimistic and masochistic belife unless you prefer to belive in mythical magical creature burning humanity for sins.

Haven't you realized vengance and judgement are the things of the emotional unstable and immature mind?That open debt dosen't exist? These organized religions and god heads are nothing more than slaughtering names. Take personal responsibility stand up to make humanity better look towards a future your moments are few and very valuable, eternal life is a cop out for those who wish to use God as a formality for wrong doings. This is why religion needs to go away, i have not dissmissed a creator but i have dissmissed an organized objective personification of judgement. There is room for spiritualty and to answer the deepest question's however as soon as you say die for or kill for your obviously on a bunny trail.

Atheists instead of ranting against religion why dont you just let people be, you have christian extremists, like you have extremists on everything ,you have atheists ranting every time a christian says something they dont like to hear or that you dont agree with , let GOD believers to believe in Him , if they die and GOD doesnt exist , then they lived a lie all their lifes, so what ? do you think they will care when they are in their coffins , and atheists if you are so sure GOD doesnt exist just go on with it , youll die and believe your truth, nothing will happen.


The real deal will be if GOD does exist, then believers and non believers will really care when we get to our coffins, meanwhile let people be, everyone has an opinion , everyone is free to believe waht they want, the good thing will be not to rant against these beliefs that everyone is entitled to have

Originally posted by dasher007
Atheists instead of ranting against religion why dont you just let people be, you have christian extremists, like you have extremists on everything ,you have atheists ranting every time a christian says something they dont like to hear or that you dont agree with , let GOD believers to believe in Him , if they die and GOD doesnt exist , then they lived a lie all their lifes, so what ? do you think they will care when they are in their coffins , and atheists if you are so sure GOD doesnt exist just go on with it , youll die and believe your truth, nothing will happen.


The real deal will be if GOD does exist, then believers and non believers will really care when we get to our coffins...

It depends on which, if any, god is real. If Allah is real, then christians will be in trouble, as well as the atheists.

Timeless debate good thread! My question to the athiest is...

Do you believe in any higher power at all? Not some guy in the sky judging you, but some kind of uniting, grand scheme of things? Or do you believe everything is random?

I personally believe there is a uniting, grand scheme. When you see the very geometry that governs our reality from galaxies to atoms it becomes quite clear.

What made it this way? Who knows but signs for an intelligent, hierarchical universe are all right there. Where i differ with some religions is that I'm not about to believe some "god out there" did it, and you better follow or you're going to hell.

God, whatever it is, has to be the underlying connection everything has with everything else. At least thats part god lol.

I think people say god is love because love is uniting. Even when young i had trouble accepting god was a "Him".

So I'm not sure if I'm an athiest, but whatever makes reality tick is definately some intelligent energy that likes geometry lol.

reply to post by Hydroman


jaja everyone is screwed anyways

I'll give you some ammo that I use frequently when the religious become too missionary toward my position.

My gently suggest to them that if they have the same religion as their parents, then then don't know much about religions.
(That also applies to a "choice" of political parties to which they favor.)\
(You will find that both situations seem to usually be entwined, which better makes your point.)

reply to post by dasher007


I am Atheist. I let people be. However, for the purposes of a debate, your outlook is poor. If we all just 'let each other be' in our lives, fine, I shall agree as I do. I know others have said this to death, but of the Atheistic people I've come across, NONE have ever wanted to push their belief on anyone, they simply love the debate and are curious as to others personal evidence for their own beliefs. That being said, I've had more than plenty enough Christians, Mormons, etc., come to my door wishing to push their belief. This is MY problem with Religion! My door! My house! My yard! My personal space! As much as the thought puts a grin on my face, I would not do this, but what if I were to go door to door preaching Atheistic perspectives? Bringing books of Science and Evolution? Would they be willing to sit and have a coffee over my view? NO! They will argue strongly against me. Given that, on more than a couple occasions I've sat with them, though in the yard not in my home, and let my curiosity run away and listen to what they have to say. Never argue, and do not talk Atheistic reasoning unless they too ask out of their own curiosity. Now, tell me again like so many of you do, why as an atheist I have a 'poor outlook', or am 'evil', 'unkind'. Please, curiosity ALWAYS has me on that one, what IS so wrong with my attitude, moral outlook, judgement, etc.?

reply to post by SuicideKing33


Very good SuicideKing, that very closely sums up what I think about god. Not a separate entity, but all is one. In my opinion, the traditional view of god that is given to us by Christianity, Judaism and Islam is a highly distorted one that only gives slivers of the truth.

reply to post by PutAQuarterIn


Hah, good point, but I just have a tendency to treat people with mutual respect, I have no problem with atheists, it's just smug ones that make me laugh, and I don't think I ever met one that wasn't smug about it.

The key point being that nobody knows what happens when we die, so being smug about religion or atheism relies in faith in your own beliefs. And there lies the irony of atheism

As for your question; do you know how the internet works? Or more specifically the tcp/ip protocol?

It doesn't matter if you don't, but in a nutshell, when you send a message over the internet, (like this post) it works out a formula for checking that everything you sent is correct using what's called a parity bit. If the calculation doesn't match up with the parity bit when the message is received, it re-sends the information until it does.

DNA is light years ahead of this, not only can damages can be recognized by enzymes, but they can be correctly repaired by enzymes.

It took humans a very long time to figure out the internet, yet without intelligent design we have to believe the fundamental and simple building blocks of life conveniently and accidentally fell into place and worked out something way more complex than we fully understand now, billions of years before we even existed.

reply to post by Beavers


'Fell into place', in a very lengthy and complex system of evolutionary trial & error. From primitive to sapien, in SO much more time than it took to get here from our primitive roots.

.

It is true that atheists can't prove that something doesn't exist. All we can do is point out how there is no evidence to back up the claim of the existence of a god. And, if this lack of evidence were made of physical stuff, there would be mountain of it. What I mean is, there is enough evidence to prove the existence of almost every mythical creature except a god.

I see that you still haven't gotten the point that I and a couple of others have made, or if you've gotten, it you've chosen to ignore it.

You acknowledge that atheists can't prove something doesn't exist. And yet, in your OP, you asserted that belief in God is the same as belief in things that are provably false. (Santa Claus, chocolate milk coming from brown cows, etc.)

Therefore, you have said that there is no God.

You cannot make such an assertion without evidence. If you make a definitive statement about God's non-existence, the burden of proof lies upon you to disprove God's existence.

Since you can't, you need to stop making statements like your OP.

Don't try to reframe the argument into a "you can't prove God" issue. You made a concrete statement. Stick by it.

Don't start out with atheism and then switch to agnosticism when your position is shown to be illogical.

reply to post by jiggerj


Jigger you have no proof that God does not exist. That makes your dis belief in God a faith based religion. Now what ?

reply to post by CashStronomer


Im a believer and i dont think your evil or inmoral for the reasons you r giving me, but unfortunately not everyone thinks the same, i also have some things about religion that i dont like, but I think nobody should go to anyones house to try to push a belief to a person, what happens is that churches often preach to seek for people that dont have God in their hearts , thats why they do that, i agree with your point of view i dont want any religious belief to come knocking on my door while im watching tv, playing with my kids or any other activity , The person that wants to believe in God wil seek for Him , at least thats what i think

Originally posted by Konduit
Maybe one day Atheists will go on a grand crusade to purify the earth of all the delusional faith worshipers....

Its starting to feel like Atheism is the new priesthood.

edit on 6-1-2013 by Konduit because: (no reason given)

Just a different religion, and an illogical religion as it's illogical to disbelieve in something you cannot disprove. In effect, it's just as illogical to disbelieve what you cannot disprove, as it is to believe in what you can't prove, but here's the thing about faith: It operates on hope. While atheism is a religion of hopelessness, of nothingness where you are nothing, and are worth nothing and all you become and do is lost forever. You have no purpose but to live and die and be forgotten, a wasted life. A worthless life. It's a religion of negativity.

reply to post by dasher007


I'm not an atheist but even I cringe a bit when we are having a serious discussion and then some Bible thumper comes along and inserts the standard "Say your 'Our Mothers' and everything will be fine" rhetoric. We are searching for real, tangible solutions to our problems. Whether or not we agree on the existence of the bearded man in the sky, we should certainly be able to agree that he is not answering prayers.

Originally posted by Hydroman
It depends on which, if any, god is real. If Allah is real, then christians will be in trouble, as well as the atheists.

If Gpd is love, how could that be the case, don't be absurd.

It's only human ignorance which is creating the distinctions, but God is still God no matter what we think of God or believe, or not believe as the case may be..

The same one above all, who is truth and spirit and love, there is no other God but God (just don't finish the last part and try to rub Jesus out of the equation for no reason).