Clackamas Mall Shooter Was Confonted By Concealed Carrier

reply to post by exponent

What evidence? The evidence is 'I want to believe therefore it's true'.

Typical ignorance or sock puppet. Ignore the evidence and then claim there isn't any...Sigh Obvious you are not up for any meaningful discussion.

My suggestion to everyone on this thread or any other for that matter is to ignore the exponent account....

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by exponent

 

UK has 3 times higher crime rate then the US per capita because criminals know most are sitting ducks... Just because your criminals use guns less but commit more crimes does not make you superior.

You're comparing surveyed crime against recorded crime. Please learn the difference between the two before you go quoting the British Crime Survey. The actual figures are quite different.

Why is that?

Perhaps Americans are safer from violent crime because we can own guns...

No, you have a 500x higher chance of being shot to death than I do, you have nearly a 10x higher chance of being stabbed (based on hospital admissions, the best source possible)

You're not safer from violent crime, you don't understand the statistics you're quoting.

Typical ignorance or sock puppet. Ignore the evidence and then claim there isn't any...Sigh Obvious you are not up for any meaningful discussion.

No evidence was presented. A mentally ill person hearing voices in their heads is not evidence that the government is using secret mind control technology to direct his actions.

That is a paranoid delusion.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by Cuervo

 

The argument that teachers and others like them should be encouraged to carry is silly.

Yes of course better to let your kids be at the mercy of any lunatic that wants to come in the school and shoot them at will with zero protection...Sigh! Wow just wow

I'd have my kids take their chances with an armed teacher any day then just be sitting ducks for any lunatic or Programmed assassin to murder!

More guns = more crossfire = more dead kids. Simple.

If you want more protection, lets get more police there. Giving teachers guns with the accountability of protection is unfair and irresponsible. That's not what teachers are for.

reply to post by Cuervo

More guns = more crossfire = more dead kids. Simple.

Simply false!

It's not like this is theory I am talking about we have the facts; armed citizens stop more crime then all law enforcement combined! it is simply not practical to put enough police in every school the facts are they would be safer and better off with a certain amount of school staff and teachers armed.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Simply false!

It's not like this is theory I am talking about we have the facts; armed citizens stop more crime then all law enforcement combined!

Please cite some well controlled and carefully analysed statistics that prove this point.

reply to post by Cuervo


I don't think, what you think, at all. I don't think most gun owners, and definitely CCL owners would blindly fire at a badguy. Not at all. That's what non gun owners who pick up someone elses weapon do when they feel in danger.

I think most gun owners/ccl owners would carefully take their shot if they had an advantage. More likely not to shoot than to fire blindly. I mean, if something like this happened, I would have so many worries run through my head before I shot. Like what if this isn't what I think it is, what if it's kids goofing around? That would be a huge fear.

Originally posted by Cuervo


More guns = more crossfire = more dead kids. Simple.

Hyperbole much? Your math is off.. and kinda ignorant.

reply to post by Cuervo


Not true. Most CCW holders understand what a sight picture is, an not to fire unless it is clear of unintended targets. Tactical shooting is different the suppressive fire.

reply to post by exponent


I would like to see your stats as well please....

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by exponent

 

I would like to see your stats as well please....

Certainly. In the UK, where most guns are illegal, we have an average of 30-50 gun homicides per year. This works out to a rate of under 0.1 per 100,000 people. Our rate of stabbings is around 8 per 100,000 per year.

The USA kills between 8 and 12 thousand people with guns per year, and has a rate of hospital admission based on attacks with a pointed object of around 64 per 100,000 per year.

These are fairly preliminary stats, I haven't gone through them in detail yet, but nobody has seen fit to question them with updated information yet so they'll do for now.

reply to post by Cuervo

This is how a CCW holder reacts..
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by exponent


links or do I just take your word for it.....

I personally just dont think this story is real and that the guy just wants to get hist 15 min. He isnt really sure that the guy even saw him with his gun. He doesnt know that he changed the outcome at all.

I'm not saying I know 100% that I would act any different then him but although he did the right thing not taking the shot if it wasnt clear, why didnt he then try and move into position to take one? Hell even a shot fired into the ceiling would have been more clear to the shooter that he wasnt just dealing with unarmed bi-standers.

Just my gut feeling.

Originally posted by whoshotJR
I personally just dont think this story is real and that the guy just wants to get hist 15 min. He isnt really sure that the guy even saw him with his gun. He doesnt know that he changed the outcome at all.

I'm not saying I know 100% that I would act any different then him but although he did the right thing not taking the shot if it wasnt clear, why didnt he then try and move into position to take one? Hell even a shot fired into the ceiling would have been more clear to the shooter that he wasnt just dealing with unarmed bi-standers.

Just my gut feeling.

No you never fire the gun unless you have a clear shot to take out the perp. Firing a shot in the ceiling or a warning shot is reckless and ignorant that would likely cause the perp to shoot at you or some bystander thinking he is being shot at... A crowded mall is a difficult place to get a clean shot without endangering bystanders the guy did the right thing.

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by exponent

 

links or do I just take your word for it.....

You could try doing your own research perhaps? Here's a random example: www.guardian.co.uk...

US: 2.97 gun homicides per 100,000
UK: 0.07 gun homicides per 100,000

reply to post by whoshotJR


It say after the gunman seen him he retreated, he did not think anymore shots were fired minus the suicide shot.

reply to post by exponent


You don't think that population has anything dto do with that or perhaps you guys already giving up your guns....compair assaults and violent acts. I have done plenty of reasearch, actually wrote a paper about this topic nothing corilates less guns to lower crime rates. Australia had almost all crimes jump 20% and gun violance by 60% when their ban happened.....

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by exponent

 

You don't think that population has anything dto do with that

They're corrected for population, see 'per 100,000'.

or perhaps you guys already giving up your guns

We did, many years ago.

....compair assaults and violent acts. I have done plenty of reasearch, actually wrote a paper about this topic nothing corilates less guns to lower crime rates. Australia had almost all crimes jump 20% and gun violance by 60% when their ban happened.....

Sorry, you demand that I provide sources and then you write this paragraph with no information whatsoever? What's the current state of Australia compared to the USA? How many deaths in general?

If you spent more time researching and less time being sure that America was right, you'd have learned something by now.

That was a really good decision not to fire.

It is true that many may over react to a situation like this and forget to think before shooting back.
People should always be reminded to be aware of what is behind their target.

IMHO people just don't talk about that enough.

edit: It is also possible that the gun jammed, he cleared the jam, and then it jammed again when the last round came out.

I don't enjoy breaking that down, but logic must be applied....

I was trained by the Kentucky state Department of Corrections with firearms and even though i do not own a gun now, i could still shoot you in the head pretty easy. Your first lesson is never point a firearm at someone unless you're prepared to use it.