Message to GOP care of Rachel Maddow

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

HealthCare went from Decent Socialized Medicine to 1994-1996 Republican Revolution crafted mandate doctrine. And then they pretended it was Liberal drafted stuff. I love the ignoring of the history!

I am not ignoring it, I didn't know, and I am all for decent health care since I don't have any.

See how you assumed and got your dig in at me by hinting I am a liar by ignoring history..

edit on 103030p://bThursday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

If you were born after 1996, you might be forgiven for not knowing. That's something the GOP would like you to forget but it just shows that you just swallow what they tell you without doing your homework before casting a vote for anyone with an R behind their name.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

How about this:

Have your own values but simply allow others to have theirs too. If they decide one thing is right for them, but doesn't hurt you or rob any other /person/ (science has a definition for this) of their liberty, autonomy, or life...then leave it alone.

You don't know anything about me, still assuming I don't.

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


There was no deflection whatsoever in my reply. It was an indictment of the absolutist position that conservatives take when confronted with the notion of compromise. But no worries. The mindset of exclusivity and exclusion is archaic - as the latest election proves.

~Heff

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


No no no we are not telling conservatives to reject their core beliefs. We are telling the fiscal conservatives to kick out, move from or otherwise divorce the social conservatives that are holding the country back. We want our friends back.

I am going to mention one more time that Devout Catholic Hispanics overwhelmingly voted for Obama,
Devout African Americans overwhelmingly voted for Obama,

You know exactly what their core values are and they are Democrats.

Most Blacks are anti gay marriage, I am not for gods sake so don't go there.

And Hispanics are anti abortion. at least the ones in my family are.

So you guys sort it all out.

reply to post by Hefficide


Sorry, I still think both sides are equally bullheaded.

The problem with people that claim they cannot release their "core beliefs" is that no one is asking you to. They are simply saying...don't expect me to accept yours and I won't ask you to accept mine...but that is NOT the problem. You are not satisfied with that. You think your core values...be it for/against gay marriage-abortion is so right that laws need to be made that effect everyone.

I am a Libertarian...I do not care what you do with your freedom as long as it does not infringe upon mine. If you want to smoke crack and watch porn all day...I do not care...I ain't paying for it so do whatever you want.

Abortion is between a woman, her doctor, her family and whatever God she prays to...it's her soul...stay out of it.

Gay marriage does not effect my life in any way, shape or form...you can marry your mailbox if you want...I absolutely do not care.

Stormy,

This argument cannot be won, but I'll throw my hat in...

I will not compromise on the 1st, 2nd, 4th, or 19th amendments to the Constitution. Any of those, for me, is strictly a 'hands-off' affair.

I abhor abortion, but that is a matter for the Supreme Court and women to decide. Not a President or political party.

Any notion to give any international authority power over the sovereignity of the United States of America should be roundly decried and defeated.

I believe the War on Drugs is a farce. I believe the Commerce Clause should be neutered. I believe that before we start going green with energy, let's do the best we can to convert and train the coal miner workforce to transition from coal to solar and wind. Why should we just cast those hard working men and women aside? Give them the opportunity to cross-train! Same thing goes with oil and whatever source we try to replace it with.

I am against the War Powers act. ONLY Congress can declare war, in my opinion. I am against drones being used against American citizens... if you want to track me, do it with honor and use a human being, damnit.

I want a secure border and immigration policy that gives those who want to come into this country a quick and effective means to do so. Either make English the official language here or require Spanish to be taught as well as English in ALL schools so that we can communicate.

Stop playing games with China. Tell them to stop stealing our IP via hacking or we will close the BGP's between us and stop all mainland Chinese IP's from accessing American based sites and servers. Make China bring the yuen in line with other world currencies and quit screwing everyone else over.

Tax the whole living #E out of US based companies that have moved overseas to avoid taxation. Lower taxes slightly to those companies who come back home and hire workers here.

Not getting into unions. I know why they are here, but in their current state they seem more like a mafia outfit to me rather than a way to protect the working man and woman from mistreatment.

There you have it.

reply to post by Dreine


See... now find a compromise that everyone can live with regarding social responsibility and social services for the poor, elderly, sick, and children - and we've got starting ground.

I'd also add, banning the practice of lobbying and term limitations for politicians into the mix as well.

~Heff

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
The problem with people that claim they cannot release their "core beliefs" is that no one is asking you to. They are simply saying...don't expect me to accept yours and I won't ask you to accept mine...but that is NOT the problem. You are not satisfied with that. You think your core values...be it for/against gay marriage-abortion is so right that laws need to be made that effect everyone.

I am a Libertarian...I do not care what you do with your freedom as long as it does not infringe upon mine. If you want to smoke crack and watch porn all day...I do not care...I ain't paying for it so do whatever you want.

Abortion is between a woman, her doctor, her family and whatever God she prays to...it's her soul...stay out of it.

Gay marriage does not effect my life in any way, shape or form...you can marry your mailbox if you want...I absolutely do not care.

See, I am a liberal democrat, and I can totally respect your views.

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot
reply to post by Hefficide

 

What you demand is that conservatives give up their core beliefs and call it compromise.

Conversely, you demand liberals to give up their core beliefs and call it compromise, right? Or do you enjoy gridlock in Congress? Because without compromise on both sides, then that is all there will ever be is gridlock. Funny how congress was able to work together for a couple of hundred years without compromise, huh?

reply to post by Hefficide


Once again deflection. LOL. Is there no value in your core beliefs? Or are you willing to negotiate ANYTHING to get along? Are we once again to go the path of Lord Chamberlain? Is that what you stand for? That led to millions of deaths because the only thing he believed in was compromise. Or do you really do not have any core beliefs?

Of course that IS the liberal position. Anything for the majority. My daughter was once attacked by four other kids on the school bus. She followed the liberal rules by not fighting back at least until they were going to steal her $700 dollar clarinet. Then she fought back. The bus driver saw the whole thing, the four kids admitted to everything, the camera recorded everything, and as the police officer said my daughter was going to be arrested for fighting back. It was easier for him to arrest one person then four. I would not allow it. When he decided to arrest me the VP of the school kicked him off the school grounds. I am sure from your replies that if that had been you, being a good liberal, you would have sacrificed your daughters future to get along now wouldn't you? That is the compromise you wish.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Most Blacks are anti gay marriage, I am not for gods sake so don't go there.

This is changing and in a large way since Obama came out in support of it. The passage of the issue in Maryland, can be largely attributed to a reconsideration of it by the black vote.

And Hispanics are anti abortion. at least the ones in my family are.

You can be anti-abortion and pro-choice. That is what pro-choice means. You may or may not have a negative view of abortion personally and simply feel it is not your place to make that decision for someone else. I do not like abortion and would probably never consider one for myself, but I am not living in someone else's circumstances and feel I am unqualified to make that decision for them.

So you guys sort it all out.

edit on 103030p://bThursday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

I tried to sort it out a little.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Dreine

 

See... now find a compromise that everyone can live with regarding social responsibility and social services for the poor, elderly, sick, and children - and we've got starting ground.

I'd also add, banning the practice of lobbying and term limitations for politicians into the mix as well.

~Heff

Heff,

Let everyone have a choice into where their tax dollars go. My wife and I will be the first to tell you we would be happy to pay more taxes for things we think are needed...

Education.
Help to those who really need it, not those who abuse the system.
Allow everyone to opt in/out of Medicare at age 25 and make that choice PERMANENT.
Allow me to opt out of Obamacare if I choose, don't make me buy something that I might not need. HOWEVER, if you want to use some of my tax money to provide healthcare for those than can't afford it, do so.

Tort reform on a massive level.

Ban lobbying. Limit campaign finance spending, and make every political contribution over $100 public knowledge. Congressional life limits at 6 years... no returning. Overall political office lifetime limits at 20 years, MAX. If you have been in Washington for that long, time to go home!

Etc, etc.

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


Amazing that you are accusing me of the behaviors you, yourself, are exhibiting. Again, this is the problem with most conservatives. You have not even bothered to ask me what my values are. You have simply pigeon holed me - based solely upon the fact that I've disagreed with you - and are now engaged in an ad hom based attack upon me that utterly lacks merit or substance.

Whereas I continue to await you even defining your own beliefs so that I might attempt a compromise.

FTR: I'm a liberal who would have beat the snot out of anyone trying to muscle me. So your entire premise is flawed.

~Heff

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I'm also assuming your one issue you don't want to compromise on is abortion. This may come as a surprise, but I am pro-life, fairly extreme pro-life. But I am mostly a liberal in my other views. There are a couple reasons why I don't let my pro-life stance dictate my vote.

1) The Republcans have been in a unique spot a few times in the past to appoint a SCOTUS justice that would be willing to look at Roe vs Wade. I have lost faith that Republicans want to do anything serous about abortion. It gets them too many votes, and if they did do something against abortion at this point, it would energize the liberals so much that Republicans wouldn't win another election for decades.

2) I can control abortion in my own life. My wife is pro-life, I knew this before I married her, we talked about it quite often while dating. We will teach our children to be pro-life and tell my sons to be aware that they really don't have a say in abortion if they happen to get a woman pregnant, if she decides to have one, there is very little you can do about it. I will teach them to be aware of who they have relations with, to practice safe sex, and to only have sex if they and their partner are ready to become parents. I would also let them know 100% that if they were to get someone pregnant or if I ever have a daughter that gets pregnant, that it is ok, that I will support them, that they will be fine, that they can continue their education, me and my wife will be there for them and I won't make them feel like it is the end of their life. From there, it is up to them to make their own decisions.


I somewhat understand your stance, I don't like abortion, I think it is very sad and disturbing. But I know that I am in the minority in society. I also know that the Republicans really aren't interested in doing anything about it, but it makes for a good campaign rhetoric to target a certain group of people. This is something I can control in my life, no one is going to force my wife or daughters or future granddaughters to have an abortion. And whether it is legal or not, if my children/grandchildren decide they want to have an abortion, history shows that making it illegal isn't really going to stop them.

reply to post by Dreine

This argument cannot be won,

I know, good post.

Time will tell, we will see just where this country is headed, and if the past is any indication, it is not headed in a good place.

reply to post by redtic


@ rachel maddow...actually lady thank god your spreading your lies... makes a power grab easier for people like me..

Thank you


Kent Walls VI: The Ability to Think for ones self.... What cost the republicans

the election results do not reflect anything you have said the reality of the situation is your blind spot...

Since I have been accused of answering as a neo-con and have taken the hits I'll answer

and yes Ohio really did go to President Obama last night,

1)the precounts all state it to my knowledge...

Republicans could still cheat... not official till electoral college votes

he really did win, and he really was born in Hawaii,

2)a) see above answer

b) I thought you said earlier he was born on Hawaii....

I never saw the evidence he was born on Hawaii, most evidence points elsewhere
never saw Romneys either though...or McCains

and he really is legitimately President of the United States, again!

3) Please define legitimate

so there was a time when he was never the legitimate president?

and the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up fake unemployment rate last month,

4)actually you right they did not make up fake numbers...

They used real numbers to lie... sorry unless it represents the number of people of working age in the US as the base it is a lie....

and the Congressional Research Service really can find NO evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy,

5) so a government agency is being trusted to find evidence...

This answer will not fly on a conspiracy website
Epic Fail here...
"Magic Bullet"
"9/11 commission"
Benghazi

I am good ... lady you need to find a dictionary

define grow in relation to economy.... although logic does dictate wealthly people making money will waste more money as will there children...

and the polls were not skewed to over-sample Democrats,

6)which polls....
I am supposed to believe a news network that accepts money to not run stories?

and Nate Silver was not making up fake projections to make conservatives feel bad, Nate Silver was doing Math!

7)???????????????????????????

Neither did Ben Stein...

will some post a link to a thread describing this....I give a broken clock here to be on the safe side

and Climate Change is real,

8) NO @#$%

with poles moving I think forty something a year of course related climate in areas will change... ten years 400 miles

google poles 40 miles

and rape really does cause pregnancy sometimes

9)nope wrong, biology answers differently

Fertilized eggs attaching to wall of the uterus ... form baby.. cells that form baby do not care source... only if embryo is viable....

methinks you skip this part for political reasons...

(I am still confused on this stance... abortion- womens right to control here body... Prostitution bad- I thought woman had right to control her body)

and Evolution is a thing!

10)no- you should really not be allowed to discuss science...bad liberal (looking for newspaper to swat her on nose)

It is called a theory...

A process of change over time... simplest breakdown

and Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal by us

11) So why are the perps still breathing?

Please make up your mind before you demonstrate more newspeak... 1st a video did it with an uprising resulting, then something else and now that your side of the propaganda got busted it is an attack

it is a scandal when you lie to the american people because you got service people killed

to be continued...

For this alone, really need that newspaper...

reply to post by redtic


While she does have some points, I am turned off by her "Holier than thou" attitude.



Some of us get it ok?

But keep rubbing the dirt in our face and eventually you'll have some pissed off people.

The GOP had best get it's act together, but the DNC needs to look after it's own house as well. After eight years, I see the people as pissed off at the DNC as much as they are now at the GOP.

reply to post by LeatherNLace


Assume much? Where have I asked ANYONE to give up their core beliefs? I have asked you what you stand for, what is your core beliefs. You have not answered. My point is compromise IS NOT POSSIBLE if either side demands the other give up its core beliefs. So far all I have heard from the liberal's is the same as last time. We won so you HAVE TO DO WHAT WE SAY. Sorry. I do not. If a gun was held to my held I still would not have to do what I was told. That is what a core belief IS! Something you are willing to die for. Until liberals actually get it through their heads that their are some people who are willing to die for their beliefs and will not compromise them then there can be no compromise. That has been Obama's problem. He has bought and threatened so many in Congress that he believes he can do whatever he wants. He believes that EVERYONE is just like a liberal and can be bought or threatened. Chicago politics.

As to Congress. My personal position is no to anything. Not because of Obama. Not even because of the issues being put forward. But because of you and his followers. I have never in 60yrs seen the rabidness put forward by you folks. Not even in Chicago. I fear if you are allowed to go forward with the concepts of buying and threatening that you have that the US may go down in history as the worst country ever. As the pastor said in the movie Serenity believe in SOMETHING. It does not matter what. Just actually believe in something. Once you have done that then maybe we can compromise.