Positive Lessons After Sandy... Where NOT to live. (Add your contribution here).

reply to post by Jeremiah65

Thank You.

Platitudes, theories and personal feelings are ok... But specific locations of Where or Where Not to live are best.

reply to post by crankyoldman

Michigan sounds nice.... good suggestion.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
So name one spot in the country that isn't affected by a natural disaster of some type.

Actually, I was asking you.

There is no such thing as a safe place to live.

It is really a case of pick your poison, and knowing your area.

The OP says the Jersey Shore is no longer safe as it was in the past, I counter by saying the Jersey Shore was NEVER safe to begin with in terms of flooding.

Flood Map (interactive)

Please, click the link I provided and type in any area of the Jersey Shore. ALL these areas are roughly 2 meters above sea level. That is 6.5 feet (roughly) above sea level. If you have a storm surge predicted at 6-12 feet, your going to be in trouble.

Sure, pack up move to Kansas. That's tornado ally. Pack up, move to the Mountains, you will see snow and on occasion Blizzard conditions. There is no such thing as a "safe" place to live. Every place has it's own weather issues. You can not escape weather. It has been here a lot longer than we have.

All one can do is educate themselves. KNOW the area you live in. If you live in Manhattan, NY your going to be 39 meters above sea level... unless your in lower Manhattan which is 3-9 meters over sea level. Battery Park, NY? 2 feet over sea level!

Storms are predictable and the results of such storms are predictable. It is YOUR responsibility to know where YOU live and how YOU should react to weather events.

Here are the facts: Hurricane Sandy was not the "storm of the century" and it was not a "super storm". It was a large storm system. The size of it was huge. However, we do not measure storms based on it's size. We measure storms based on intensity and on the intensity meter, Sandy was a light weight.

There will be those who say, "How can you say that? Did you see the pictures of destruction?" Yes I did see them and this is what happens when you live 5 or 6 feet above sea level and the storm surge is 12 feet. It is simple math. If I am 6 feet above sea level, and the sea will rise by 12 feet, I will be in 6 feet of water. It is like trying to pour water from a 2 quart pitcher into a a glass that holds 2 cups. The cup will overflow and I will have 6 cups of water on the ground to clean up.

So there are no "safe" places to live. If you live in a flood prone area, YOU should know that if a storm surge of 12 feet is the result of a storm, and you live in an area that floods. You should leave. Move your belongings the a higher floor or take them with you. Come back after the weather event and salvage what you can or repair it, but YOU should leave.

If you live in Kansas, where tornadoes are common (which I have lived in Kansas), you want to be prepared for the possibility. Have a basement. Have a shelter you can get to. You never know if a Thunderstorm will create a tornado, but we know when there is circulation in the air and the possibility exist.

You live in the Mountains where it snows? Blizzards are possible? You can see feet upon feet of snow? You have preparations that will allow you to stay warm. You have a stock of food that will allow you to feed yourself when you can not go out and get food from the market.

These are all things people have done for centuries, but today as a society, we are so accustomed to not having to do for ourselves. We are accustomed to just getting in our car and driving to the market. We are accustomed to simply flipping a switch and having light. Yet this was not always how it was and people survived.

reply to post by MrWendal

True. Good point.. and I agree totally with what you're saying. We can scratch NJ and Battery Park... probably a good idea.

There is no such thing as a safe place to live.

It is really a case of pick your poison, and knowing your area.

Overall though, some locations are less poisonous than others, however. And some are more. Please don't tell me that they are all the same.... That somehow "it all washes out in the end". That's just generalizing. Listing locations that fit either the one extreme or the other are sought after and considered helpful.

Originally posted by MrWendal
You live in the Mountains where it snows? Blizzards are possible? You can see feet upon feet of snow? You have preparations that will allow you to stay warm. You have a stock of food that will allow you to feed yourself when you can not go out and get food from the market.

One possible good tip for mountain living is to live on the side of the mountain that doesn't get pelted with weather continually... I'm thinking this would be the East side(?)... The top is nice. It has the best views. Living in a northern state can really sock you with heating bills up there. Someone can probably chime in about the best side I hope.

reply to post by MarkJS


You haven't responded to any of my posts.

I do believe it all comes out in the wash. If you find a place that has less frequent dangers, it will likely have more severe dangers that just occur less frequently. A tornado is devastating, but it is also small and short lived, and extremely random. A hurricane is less devastating, but it is much larger and more frequent, but it also comes with plenty of advance warning. A volcano is extremely unpredictable, but it is extremely devastating, yet it might only erupt once in 10,000 years or longer.

Is Hawaii safer than Yellowstone? It depends. Hawaii has frequent eruptions, but they are mostly minor, but Hawaii has the rare possibility of a Tsunami, or Japanese Air Strike. Yellowstone almost never has eruptions, but it has small frequent earthquakes, and frequent blizzards, and an occasional rabid grizzly bear.

What is your definition of safe?

Would you prefer a very, very infrequent but devastating risk, or would you prefer frequent, but less devasting risks? Would you prefer a consistently recurring risk, but with ample warning time, or a very sporadic and rare risk, but with little to no warning time?

And, how do you balance all that risk with our known killers that I mentioned earlier? Do you wear your seatbelt? Do you drive near water? Do you visit a doctor? Do you eat your vegetables? Do you fly? Are you married?

My ex-wife wrote a paper once outlining the risks to pregnant women, and the number one, most dangerous place, in the entire world, for a pregnant women to be? At home with the one she loves. That is where the most violence occurs. So, should she go home and snuggle with hubby, or go surfing? Which is safer?

after 9/11...why would anyone live in new york or washington D.C.?...you can have the what? "glamour"..."excitement"...i guess this is the way to thin the herd.

I was a little kid when I asked my dad if we could move somewhere "safe". It was after Hurricane Camille.. I THINK. One of those old armageddon storms where my mother was praying, and my dad was pacing... freaks you out when youre little! Anyway, what he said in the 60's still rings true : nowhere is safe. Youll always be either threatened by man, beast or mother nature.
You have to live more and worry less about what MIGHT happen.Just make normal preparations and LIVE. Ive lived all over the country and overseas as well. In every place.. pick your doom. You never escape it. You cant prep for every scenario. Youll drive yourself mad if you try. Roll with the punches and live.

PS.. Ive seen many fellow ATSers fall into the prep trap. Im a prepper and alway have been. However, I dont live my entire life around it.. its a PART of my life. Some are so afraid of what MIGHT happen in the future they forget to look around them and love today. It becomes a true obsession. For Gods sake.. dont fall to that.

A lot of people in this thread post with the philosophy: Advantages and risks. Like there are no safe places in the US to live... but that all locations are fraught with either quickly or slowly developing natural disasters. Maybe you don't know any... That's OK. But believe it or not, there are nice places to live where it's not an either-or option. That's what this thread is about... to learn of locations that has better chances where they are not in peril of being wiped out by nature, or ones that are. Thank you for posts listing these.

Thats why I live in Rural AZ. No tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanos etc. It is just HOT. After being here so many years though I am used to it. After living through a horrid earthquake many years ago, I got on a bus two weeks later and was rite back in AZ,lol Like my ground solid thank you .

Now we have ocassional flash flooding with monsoon, but nothing like what we are seeing on the Eastern sea board. Oh, and you have to watch the pets dont get the poison toads in the summer. Ill take that over all the other stuff.

I never understood either, why live where there is a high potential of danger. If my husband had his way we would be living near a volcano because he wants to see one go off!! Dont get it.

reply to post by MarkJS

But believe it or not, there are nice places to live where it's not an either-or option.

I don't believe you. Prove it. Nobody has posted such a place so far, including you.

In the Southern Arizona in the post just above, don't forget Rattlesnakes, Drug Cartels, Nuclear Testing, Severe Drought, etc. How comfortable would you be surviving there it he power went out for 2 or 3 weeks? How about a full year? Could you find fresh water there without electricity? Could your neighbors?

No place is safe, it is always a tradeoff of one danger for another. Some are frequent, some are rare. Some are predictable, some are not.

I wonder how many people were taken by surprise in their little safe haven when the hoards of Ghenghis Khan showed up one day? The Sahara used to be a plush arrid zone. Death Valley, White Sands, and the Salt Flats used to be teeming with sea life.

No place is safe.

reply to post by darkhorserider

I can't account in this thread for all potential dangers when considering a place to move to. Frankly, that is beyond the scope of this thread. But thank you for your post.. and considering all the factors you mentioned... I would agree with that.

The point of this thread is to consider what locations weather-wise, or nature-wise only (that's why it's in the Fragile Earth category)... are either very dangerous or are relatively safe. The other factors will have to be taken-up in a different thread. Thank You.

Originally posted by darkhorserider
reply to post by MarkJS

 

There are reports saying this is the worst thing to happen to NY's subway system in 108 years. Humans don't live 108 years normally, so if you moved there right now, there is a very high chance you'd never see anything like this again.

The homes destroyed in Joplin, MO from the tornado were mostly decades old, some of them more than a century old. So, if you moved there right now, there is a high likelihood you'd never see another tornado the rest of your life.

The hurricane that struck Galveston in 1908 hasn't re-occured. Yellowstone hasn't exploded, New Madrid hasn't shaken, and Chicago hasn't burned down again, San Francisco has only quaked devastatingly one time in my life.

Yet, 70,000 people die every year from medical mistakes in the US alone. You are 1400 times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist, and 10,000 more times to be killed in a car than an airplane, and more likely to die from Coronary Disease or Cancer than any of the above.

So, what is an unnecessary risk? What is worse a move to Kansas or drinking a Diet Coke? What is worse, a trip to your doctor, or a trip to the beach during a thunderstorm?

all true, in fact roughly 7k people died yesterday! 7000! Yet it is only the few associated with the disaster of the month that count and that scare us to death, yes death by living in fear of living. BTW, my favorite comparative death number is this: Number of people who have died from vending machine incidents in the US since they day "everything changed" is roughly 400. Number of people who died from terrorist attacks since everything changed: zero. Total dollars spent on stopping the real killer, vending machines: zero.

reply to post by crankyoldman

I can't account in this thread for all potential dangers when considering a place to move to. Frankly, that is beyond the scope of this thread. But thank you for your post.. and considering all the factors you mentioned... I would agree with that.

The point of this thread is to consider what locations weather-wise, or nature-wise only (that's why it's in the Fragile Earth category)... are either very dangerous or are relatively safe. The other factors will have to be taken-up in a different thread. Thank You.

Don't live on earth.

The planet has been damaged by us almost beyond repair.

Sandy was a reflex to the damage,earth is convulsing.

Like when the Clinton Admin. rescinded Glass-Steagall,so will go our realization of the truth about our home.

We won't really notice till it's too late to recover from the mistake.

It takes a long time for things to manifest themselves in the political system,the planetary ecological system is a tad bigger than that....

A big part of the environmental damage was done before we even started using petroleum,when we started draining swamps by filling the lowlands with toxic garbage,hauling it by train and horsedrawn wagon.Yup,hauled from cities....

So nevermind those global warming dummies,although it is a symptom,buying a goddamned hybrid won't change anything but the bank's bottom line...

You can't afford it?,don't buy it....

Rain happens before hurricanes arrive,asphalt and cement do not absorb water,so it's evaporated if it does not run off,and then the watert that does run off is warmed up a bit before it runs back into the already warm water that brought the weather system in the first place,hurricanes seek water vapor,cities create a lot even without sunshine,a giant rising pillar of it....

Where does a storm steer itself toward?,FOOD.

I noticed that when I lived in florida,why the himmacanes almost always hit at or near cities.

I lived in one of the few parts of the state that wasn't part of the coastal megalopolis,and never got smacked directly like the cities usually do.

OK,now tell me I am not an expert,I at least think about it in larger terms than most who only are concerned with their frickin lights going out and not being able to amuse themselves vicariously,or being able to get water and food cuz they forgot to go to the store for a week or so cuz they were lurking around here.....

I could go on,but I have to get ready for work...

That must by I am being somewhat snide and short,terse....?

Sorry,Anyways.....

reply to post by MarkJS


OP I just want to add that I do understand your positive energy within this thread. You are trying to help people find safe locations and that is much appreciated s&f to you for that. I didn't come here to derail or distract any I was just adding that any potential location can become a dangerous one so it may be best to look at your current location for emergency exits and med/food/ AIR-SEA-LAND travel device locations. So its good thread overall and excuse my energies if they somewhat interfered

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner

I noticed that when I lived in florida,why the himmacanes almost always hit at or near cities.

That's not true. Hurricane Andrew miraculously missed the areas that would have quadrupled the damage! Homestead was devastated, but the other, more expensive, and more populated areas were spared.

Charlie came directly across me in Orlando. We actually rode out the eye wall, leaning into the wind outside our hotel in Disney! We never even lost electricity. The worst part of the storm stayed South and East of Orlando and Kissimmee.

The terrible hurricanes that came up to the panhandle seemed to glide between the key cities.

Even Katrina with the dreaded NE Quadrant driving directly up the bayou and delta into NOLA ended up weakening just before landfall.

Mother Nature isn't trying to get rid of us, but the more and more people that we create, the more likely those people are to get struck by something. These days people are everywhere! There is no way a disaster doesn't affect someone.

As a person who has lived all over the place, you have to pick which natural disasters offend you the least. You're going to end up dealing with earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, ice storms, or any combination of the above no matter where you go. And that is before you even begin to factor in crime and other social factors that can make even a relatively safe environment fatally dangerous.

If you're a believer in such things, Edgar Cayce actually drew a map that shows where he thought the safe places would be once the apocalypse began:



Maybe his guesses were as good as ours are.

~Heff

The fact that this planet's conditions are stable enough to allow civilizations to develop is already quite remarkable, compared to how frightfully inhospitable other planets are.

There are no eternally safe places. Well, Arizona was really stable when I used to live there, but there was a drought when we left, and I'm not sure the water supply over there is going to last forever. Let's also not forget periodic worldwide extinctions.

A bit off-topic, as it's not natural-disaster related. It's a disaster nonetheless.

Endicott, NY... big no, no. Totally contaminated with TCE TriChloroEtheylene. You won't see any signs posted on the road about it... but believe me,.... it's there. Lots of info on the internet...

Wikipedia article... see section: Pollution

Lawsuit Info- Endicott NY

Life in the plume article

gold-rush town no more

I like the tropics. I've been in tornados, ice storms, blizzards, earthquakes, including the 89 SF quake, and also over twenty hurricanes, often on a boat. In fact I just sailed down the coast from the Jersey shore to Cancun over the last two weeks, just sliding out of the way of the hurricane. This was just a hurricane. They happen every year, in case you hadn't noticed. Florida gets hit by a few every year. Usually, there is severe flooding from the storm surge. Houses on the beach tend to get slammed. That's the risk you take to live in that mackin house on the waterfront, and that's why you had to pay so much for it.

I'll take the hurricanes over the rest. You can see them coming and prepare or get out of the way. It's the price to pay for living in a tropic paradise. And sometimes even New England gets hit, I've been in five hurricanes up there over the years. Everyone seems to forget each time that THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.